Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05.01.2021, 21:07
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 54
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 8 Posts
tr85858 has no particular reputation at present
Electric underfloor heating - mountain house

Looking at a chalet in the Vallais at around 1600m and trying to get a sense of how much (how bad) yearly heating bill could be. Itís got electric underfloor heating mats throughout and is just over 150m2.

Fitting a warmepumpe would be great, but involves ripping out all floors so not really viable. I donít think thereís much else I can do to reduce the cost. Any views or first hand experience greatly received...
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05.01.2021, 21:21
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric underfloor heating - mountain house

Quote:
View Post
Looking at a chalet in the Vallais at around 1600m and trying to get a sense of how much (how bad) yearly heating bill could be. Itís got electric underfloor heating mats throughout and is just over 150m2.

Fitting a warmepumpe would be great, but involves ripping out all floors so not really viable. I donít think thereís much else I can do to reduce the cost. Any views or first hand experience greatly received...
Just to give you some idea, I am at 850m 162m2 & am currently using about 100 units a day. We have 2 x 300l how water tanks when 1 would be enough so wasting about 6 units on that.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07.01.2021, 00:12
hoover1
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Electric underfloor heating - mountain house

Quote:
View Post
Looking at a chalet in the Vallais at around 1600m and trying to get a sense of how much (how bad) yearly heating bill could be. Itís got electric underfloor heating mats throughout and is just over 150m2.

Fitting a warmepumpe would be great, but involves ripping out all floors so not really viable. I donít think thereís much else I can do to reduce the cost. Any views or first hand experience greatly received...
It's not about size but how much heat losses you have so very well insulated home would take much less than next to it with old windows etc.

Fireplace maybe something you may consider with water system and air-heating-distribution (it ain't cheap - but nothing is in Switzerland).

I must admit wooden homes is place where I'd not install any heating but fireplace - but that's just me..
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07.01.2021, 09:48
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric underfloor heating - mountain house

Quote:
View Post
It's not about size but how much heat losses you have so very well insulated home would take much less than next to it with old windows etc.

Fireplace maybe something you may consider with water system and air-heating-distribution (it ain't cheap - but nothing is in Switzerland).

I must admit wooden homes is place where I'd not install any heating but fireplace - but that's just me..
Not sure how long fire places will still be viable, in Haute Savoie in France they can't be used from 2022, Paris has already banned them. Switzerland hates pollution.........
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 07.01.2021, 11:02
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 54
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 8 Posts
tr85858 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Electric underfloor heating - mountain house

Thank you, for sharing personal experiences. I guess Iíll just have to suck it up as the price of living in a nice place. Insulation is good and thereís a fireplace - but I do agree will be interesting to see how long open fires continue to be allowed.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07.01.2021, 11:19
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric underfloor heating - mountain house

Quote:
View Post
Thank you, for sharing personal experiences. I guess I’ll just have to suck it up as the price of living in a nice place. Insulation is good and there’s a fireplace - but I do agree will be interesting to see how long open fires continue to be allowed.
What I notice is a huge amount of heat is lost through our fireplace, as by law it needs to be enclosed (glass cover on 3 sides) I suspect more heat is lost than ever gained by burning wood as most heat goes up the chimney. The place is 17 years old with good insulation however a huge draught around fireplace.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07.01.2021, 11:42
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,776
Groaned at 284 Times in 189 Posts
Thanked 18,666 Times in 7,843 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric underfloor heating - mountain house

Quote:
View Post
What I notice is a huge amount of heat is lost through our fireplace, as by law it needs to be enclosed (glass cover on 3 sides) I suspect more heat is lost than ever gained by burning wood as most heat goes up the chimney. The place is 17 years old with good insulation however a huge draught around fireplace.
Esp. if the fireplace doesn't have a dedicated air intake to provide air for combustion. In this case, the air in the house is burned and new cold air is sucked in from the outside.

Our fireplace had such an air intake but during the renovation, I removed it as we intended to use the fireplace only for aesthetic reasons. I came to regret that when the primary heating failed this winter and we had to use the fireplace for heat and it was only good to provide radiant heat in the immediate area, but made the house colder overall.
__________________
By replying to this post, you hereby grant Phil_MCR a royalty-free license to use, in any way, anything posted by you on the internet. If you do not accept, stop using EF and delete your account.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 07.01.2021, 11:46
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric underfloor heating - mountain house

Quote:
View Post
Esp. if the fireplace doesn't have a dedicated air intake to provide air for combustion. In this case, the air in the house is burned and new cold air is sucked in from the outside.

Our fireplace had such an air intake but during the renovation, I removed it as we intended to use the fireplace only for aesthetic reasons. I came to regret that when the primary heating failed this winter and we had to use the fireplace for heat and it was only good to provide radiant heat in the immediate area, but made the house colder overall.
Exactly, outside air is -8 now, was -14 overnight.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07.01.2021, 11:53
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Lugano
Posts: 1,176
Groaned at 17 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,419 Times in 646 Posts
LuganoPirate has a reputation beyond reputeLuganoPirate has a reputation beyond reputeLuganoPirate has a reputation beyond reputeLuganoPirate has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric underfloor heating - mountain house

We have a home in South Africa with a high volume interior due to the thatched roof and the living area being being 8.5 meters at the highest point. All we have is an open fire which indeed heated just the immediate area up to 3 meters away. Enough to keep us warm while watching TV or working in the open plan kitchen.

We fitted a glass fronted wood burner in the fireplace and the difference was enormous raising the temperature by at least 6 degrees C 5 meters away. We're just fitting a gas fired boiler now and may look at putting in a gas heater (the pipe work was put in when we built the house) in the bedrooms.

While researching this I saw the Victorians would heat the space around them to keep warm, rather than the whole house. This may explain why the Queen has just a small electric heater close to where she sits. I saw this on a few TV programmes about her.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07.01.2021, 12:14
RTN RTN is online now
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Uetikon am See
Posts: 1,471
Groaned at 13 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 1,678 Times in 749 Posts
RTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric underfloor heating - mountain house

Quote:
View Post
Esp. if the fireplace doesn't have a dedicated air intake to provide air for combustion. In this case, the air in the house is burned and new cold air is sucked in from the outside.

Our fireplace had such an air intake but during the renovation, I removed it as we intended to use the fireplace only for aesthetic reasons. I came to regret that when the primary heating failed this winter and we had to use the fireplace for heat and it was only good to provide radiant heat in the immediate area, but made the house colder overall.
Myself and a few mates in Australia have installed cold air intakes directly into the chimney with amazing results. Simply put if you have a well sealed steel flu running up a concrete chimney then cutting a hole in the chimney in the roof space to force air down the outside of the flu (capturing waste heat on the way) with steel duct work and a fan works. Metal drum fan, air speed and volume is critical so you have maximum reclamation of waste heat but the chimney still draws properly. Not sure on the laws here regarding chimneys if it is allowed.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07.01.2021, 12:40
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,776
Groaned at 284 Times in 189 Posts
Thanked 18,666 Times in 7,843 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric underfloor heating - mountain house

Quote:
View Post
Myself and a few mates in Australia have installed cold air intakes directly into the chimney with amazing results. Simply put if you have a well sealed steel flu running up a concrete chimney then cutting a hole in the chimney in the roof space to force air down the outside of the flu (capturing waste heat on the way) with steel duct work and a fan works. Metal drum fan, air speed and volume is critical so you have maximum reclamation of waste heat but the chimney still draws properly. Not sure on the laws here regarding chimneys if it is allowed.
I have/had a separate steel duct running in the chimney to take the outside air in. No fan is really needed as the exhaust heat creates a negative air pressure and draws in the cold air.

I also have an integrated fan in the chimney which draws air from one side of the fireplace to the other side with a channel in the chimney to extract the heat from the chimney into the room.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07.01.2021, 18:00
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 54
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 8 Posts
tr85858 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Electric underfloor heating - mountain house

Quote:
View Post
This may explain why the Queen has just a small electric heater close to where she sits. I saw this on a few TV programmes about her.
The queen would be an easy guest - my better half likes the whole place to be hot
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08.01.2021, 22:18
hoover1
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Electric underfloor heating - mountain house

Quote:
View Post
What I notice is a huge amount of heat is lost through our fireplace, as by law it needs to be enclosed (glass cover on 3 sides) I suspect more heat is lost than ever gained by burning wood as most heat goes up the chimney. The place is 17 years old with good insulation however a huge draught around fireplace.
As most fireplaces - yours seem to be build to nice feeling and not heating . Normally you'd see lot of stone and different design of the exhaust duct - that would be 'build for heating'.

you'd need secondary water jacket on top of the fireplace which would allow for hear distribution to air-vents similar to car-cooling system.

in CH Holzfeuerung is actually promoted as renuvable energy source and fireplace with water jacket counts as that (so you be even getting some $$$ from canton)
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Underfloor heating OutsideTheBox Housing in general 33 20.11.2021 18:14
House with Electric heating PurdueBoilermaker Housing in general 34 04.09.2017 18:49
Underfloor Heating kilns Housing in general 20 24.01.2017 17:17
Underfloor heating-how to put it on?? Mawina23 Housing in general 17 25.10.2014 00:27
To buy or not to buy: house with electric heating? ljm Housing in general 17 19.05.2008 18:37


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0