Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 08.02.2021, 14:26
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

Quote:
View Post
I told the neighbor to take a picture or record a video of the noise, so I can see there IS a problem. But he says he doesn't want to intervene anymore, just want them out. He also said he talks in the name of all the neighbors, which doesn't seem so... Since the one who lives next to us is fine.

The problem is the landlord is pressing me about a situation they can't prove. But as the main tenant, I don't know how things can evolve if I don't act as they want me to.
I would do nothing, let them escalate the matter, pay your rent into court, rather than to the landlord. If they don't prove the case you could get 3 yers protection from the court. Silly people play silly games as they think you will be scared.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #22  
Old 08.02.2021, 14:39
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 5,062
Groaned at 286 Times in 204 Posts
Thanked 10,707 Times in 4,015 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

Some people appreciate their quiet and don't like having to deal with noisy neighbors all the time. I think it's especially a problem when it disturbs people's sleep, and particularly with kids who go to bed early. Also, a lot of people are working from home right now which means that having to deal with excess noise from the neighbors having a lot of people over all the time can cause problems with their work.

So this is just my take on it, but I doubt it has to do with the subtenants being black and more with the fact that they often have a lot of people over, and their noise is clearly bothering their neighbors. I also wouldn't appreciate having to constantly hear a lot of noise from 7-20 people next door or above me. And that's regardless of their skin color.

Sounds like your subtenants either need to find a new place to live or stop treating your apartment like a party house and be more considerate of the people living around them.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08.02.2021, 14:39
Izzt89's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Zurich, Zug
Posts: 152
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 352 Times in 139 Posts
Izzt89 has a reputation beyond reputeIzzt89 has a reputation beyond reputeIzzt89 has a reputation beyond reputeIzzt89 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

I have been in your situation in the past. (Not CH, but SLK). A couple of times my neighbors told me my 3-tenants were throwing parties. I spoke to them - they said 'yes, but it was not a crazy party, just normal stuff, we stopped making noise at 10 p.m'. I believed them (they worked for large corporations, we came from the same culture, so communication was not a problem, and when they say 'normal', i understand what are the limits of 'normal').

Did not hear again from the neighbors. Six months later, the 3-tenants told me they were leaving, so we agreed that I would pick up the keys and do the 'round' (etat de lieu de sortie), to see the status of the flat with them, and return the deposit.

When I arrived, the guy who opened the door was not any of the 3 tenants, but 'a friend of one of them'. The whole flat was destroyed. Fully. There had been more than one party - and clearly the last one was the 'ultimate' one. I had to throw away all furniture, repaint the whole flat, and call a lawyer.... "catch me if you can", basically

During the months between the first email & call of the neighbors and the end of the tenancy, the police had 'visited' the flat, because of some other behaviors (throwing the house keys from the balcony, which landed on a car...with the owner inside, smoking pot in the balcony...). The neighbors did not tell me - they called the police directly. Why would they, if i was living abroad, and I could do nothing on-the-spot?.
The tenants, of course, did not complain to me, they never mentioned any 'visit' from the police. When things got pear-shaped, they just left. Two years later, the mailbox still receives court requirements addressed to these guys.

So, if your neighbors tell you there is a party at home, you call your tenants and they are 7 in the house (7 that they show you, which is already against the current legislation, and probably they were 10 in the house), I would strongly suggest that you ask a friend of yours to pop by and clarify it face-to-face with the tenants, and/or with the neighbors.

It might be that your neighbors are not particularly friendly, but nobody would complain in this country if behaviors / activities / daily life are undertaken within the established limits....
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank Izzt89 for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 08.02.2021, 14:49
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bern
Posts: 2,249
Groaned at 416 Times in 265 Posts
Thanked 4,648 Times in 1,691 Posts
Susie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond repute
Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

Quote:
View Post
Some years ago we made a New Year's Eve party and a few days later I received a registered letter from the real estate company telling that I was requested to be considerate to neighbors and respect the contract. I learned from this.
What is wrong with people? I assumed NYE there is some exception ...
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Susie-Q for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 08.02.2021, 15:03
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 16,522
Groaned at 582 Times in 457 Posts
Thanked 24,728 Times in 9,954 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

Quote:
View Post
What is wrong with people? I assumed NYE there is some exception ...
Especially as half the country are letting off fireworks...
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 08.02.2021, 16:38
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basle
Posts: 2,806
Groaned at 73 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 1,955 Times in 1,133 Posts
Landers has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

Tell your tenants to take up the piano, then see which way the neighbour prefers it. People have very different views of what is appropriate behaviour and what isn't. The neighbour who says everything is fine might also be contributing to the problem.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 08.02.2021, 17:18
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Herrliberg
Posts: 13
Groaned at 2 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
AnnaTempo has made some interesting contributions
Quote:
View Post
I have been in your situation in the past. (Not CH, but SLK). A couple of times my neighbors told me my 3-tenants were throwing parties. I spoke to them - they said 'yes, but it was not a crazy party, just normal stuff, we stopped making noise at 10 p.m'. I believed them (they worked for large corporations, we came from the same culture, so communication was not a problem, and when they say 'normal', i understand what are the limits of 'normal').

Did not hear again from the neighbors. Six months later, the 3-tenants told me they were leaving, so we agreed that I would pick up the keys and do the 'round' (etat de lieu de sortie), to see the status of the flat with them, and return the deposit.

When I arrived, the guy who opened the door was not any of the 3 tenants, but 'a friend of one of them'. The whole flat was destroyed. Fully. There had been more than one party - and clearly the last one was the 'ultimate' one. I had to throw away all furniture, repaint the whole flat, and call a lawyer.... "catch me if you can", basically

During the months between the first email & call of the neighbors and the end of the tenancy, the police had 'visited' the flat, because of some other behaviors (throwing the house keys from the balcony, which landed on a car...with the owner inside, smoking pot in the balcony...). The neighbors did not tell me - they called the police directly. Why would they, if i was living abroad, and I could do nothing on-the-spot?.
The tenants, of course, did not complain to me, they never mentioned any 'visit' from the police. When things got pear-shaped, they just left. Two years later, the mailbox still receives court requirements addressed to these guys.

So, if your neighbors tell you there is a party at home, you call your tenants and they are 7 in the house (7 that they show you, which is already against the current legislation, and probably they were 10 in the house), I would strongly suggest that you ask a friend of yours to pop by and clarify it face-to-face with the tenants, and/or with the neighbors.

It might be that your neighbors are not particularly friendly, but nobody would complain in this country if behaviors / activities / daily life are undertaken within the established limits....
OMG. Terrible experience. Yes, probably you are right. I never had any problems before and I was living in the same apartment with the same neighbors. First, I gave him credit, but everything looked to me a bit exaggerated, and who knows. Many versions. Landlord has called me to give them notice of 3 months, which is not that bad for them to find another place to live.

Quote:
View Post
  • Do you have permission from your landlord, in writing, to sublet to these women, with contracts showing how much they pay you?
If not, the landlord has grounds to give you notice, and you will not have the right to appeal against that. If a tenant (you) sublets without the permission of the landlord, that is a valid reason for the landlord to terminate the rental contract. Then you, and your tenants, will all have to vacate the apartment.


OP, it seems that for some of the incidents you were there in the flat and saw things yourself and at other times you were not there.
  • Do you yourself live in that apartment, full-time or part-time, or do you have your legal and effective domicile somewhere else?
  • If you do not live there, do you intend to return to live there, yourself?
I ask this because that intention (or lack thereof) is sometimes taken as a condition for granting (Ior withdrawing) permission for a sublet to continue over a long duration.
Yes! I did have permission.

I 'do not live' there but I kept my room, so I have been there sometimes.

Luckily, the landlord has contacted me and they resolved it by giving them 3 months' notice, which is not as bad as kicking them out immediately. Thank you for your help/advice .

Quote:
View Post
See also this: https://mietjurist.ch/untermiete-dauer-befristung/
which sets out, amongst other things, that the main landlord, in granting the tenant permission to sublet, must not need to put up with any significant disadvantages.

If your tenants are [said to be] noisy, then your landlord is already having to spend time dealing with the one or more neighbours who is/are complaining. That's a disadvantage.

If I were in your shoes, I would do the following. First, know your position, clearly.
  • Check the terms of your contract that you've made with your tenants, to see by when you could give them notice.
  • Check the permission that you have from the landlord, to sublet. (If you did not obtain such permission before you began to sublet, the landlord has the right to give you notice, in any case.)
  • Check the terms of your contract that you have with your landlord, to see by when the landlord could give you notice.
  • Find your copy of the house rules. If you don't have one, ask the landlord for one.
  • Decide, for yourself, how important it is to you to hold on to this particular apartment.
  • Know that if your landlord finds it necessary to give you notice, your name will probably go onto a list of unsuitable tenants (which will make it difficult for you to rent anything again).
  • Explain to your tenants that if that happens, your landlord is likely to add their names, too, to the list of poor tenants (making their future as tenants difficult).

Next, issue a written warning to each tenant, including a copy of the house rules. Get their signature of receipt, on a copy, with date, if you give it to them in person, or else post them registered letters.

Inform them, in writing, that you have received several/numerous complaints about the noise they generate, and that from now on they are to be especially cautious and considerate. The fact that the walls are thin is not an excuse for the noise, but is a reason to take extra care to keep the noise levels down. Whether or not they, or you, or the cosy neighbour personally feel that the noise level was troublesome or not, is not the point. The point is that you have already received complaints, and have already been told very clearly, by the landlord, that he does not want them living there.

In all likelihood, unless the noise levels are dropped immediately and reliably, and unless the landlord sees that the situation de-escalates, it is very likely to progress towards your being given notice (quite independently of whether or not your tenants are, in fact, making too much noise). It is now up to you to take remedial steps to prevent that.
Wow, thank you very much for your explanation. It is hard to be in the middle of a situation like this and don't know which are the rules in a foreign country. I have found myself in the past dealing with a landlord who was doing many illegal things until we acted, in Switzerland too.

Anyway, the landlord called me peacefully and suggested me to give them 3 months notice period, because they do not plan to put me in the same package. I should write them a 'registered' letter letting them know about this. As far as they behave until the end of the contract, they can't stay. If they not, they may be forced to leave.

Thank you again!

Last edited by 3Wishes; 09.02.2021 at 12:00. Reason: merging consecutive replies
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank AnnaTempo for this useful post:
  #28  
Old 09.02.2021, 00:50
Atheri's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Nyon
Posts: 80
Groaned at 21 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 83 Times in 34 Posts
Atheri has become a little unpopular
Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

After numerous complaints, to be honest, the easiest solution is just to find some new tenants. You'll save everyone's time and energy.

As someone who is very into the "Swiss style" of having quiet house after 22, I wouldn't hesitate a day to start looking for new tenants. After all, there are always more people looking for rentals than there are offers, so it's not like your life would become any worse from this.

Considering they are quite literally throwing parties, during lockdown - which means they are breaking the law, it's only a matter of time until they break your goodwill again. Summer is coming and young people go nuts.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Atheri for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Maximum allowable number of subtenants hap Housing in general 3 13.12.2015 18:15
What would you do (another neighbour problem)? Kamarate Housing in general 40 14.12.2013 23:50
Cranky Neighbour Amit_Purohit Complaints corner 16 09.08.2012 21:56
Neighbour issues...help please Alison_K Daily life 47 18.02.2011 22:12
Yet another neighbour rant summerrain Complaints corner 59 06.12.2010 23:16


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:48.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0