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Old 08.02.2021, 12:33
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My subtenants vs My neighbour

Good morning everyone,

I have been reading this forum for many questions I have had during my stay in Switzerland, but now I am here to ask for some little help in case any of you know something about my situation.

I am subletting two rooms in my apartment. They are two young girls and they are black, which might be important or might not. Neighbors started to complain when they came because they were a bit loud when they had friends over. Besides, for New Year's they did a party, which was also loud and which disturbed the neighbors. They were actually partying with one of the neighbors, but they only complained about them. They accepted these events, they promised to behave and respect the quiet times.

I wrote them two notice letters because the landlord already contacted me. Last week, I received a message from one of the neighbors around 8 pm that the subtenants were again being loud and were smoking hashish because the whole house smelt. He said my subtenants had 15/20 person minimum in the apartment and big limousines and a bus were parked in front of the house. I told him, please, take a picture because it sounds incredible. Then he said there was a minibus, a car, and a limousine, but no picture.

I asked another neighbor of the building at the same moment if everything was fine over there. He was the one living next to me, so who better. He answered me everything was good and cozy. I told him if there is any problem with my subtenants and he said: not at all, it has been super easy.

I contacted my subtenants and they had 5 friends over. I saw it myself. I don't know if all the people left in minutes... They thought they could have been loud because walls in Switzerland are like paper, but nothing else. They are very upset and they think this situation is getting quite crazy, especially when I asked them about the limousines and the bus.

The landlord has contacted me again saying they can't tolerate this behavior anymore, and I am the one responsible for them. My subtenants don't want to leave because they think it's not fair and it's not true what this neighbor has said about them. I have no proof if he is right or if he isn't, but now I have no idea how to act. The landlord just keeps telling me they are not responsible but they don't want them there.

I don't understand why if I don't have any proof of this behavior, I should breach the lease just because one neighbor complains about them, but doesn't prove anything. My subtenants started to think there might be a racial issue. I have never had a problem before, but I have heard that Swiss neighbors can be complicated.

I am not sure if I should ask for legal help. It seems I will not receive anything from the landlord. He just washes his hand about the matter and ask me to act.

Thank you for the reading .
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Old 08.02.2021, 12:56
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Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

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Thank you for the reading .
You are welcome. Thankfully there are no questions.
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Old 08.02.2021, 12:59
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Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

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They are two young girls and they are black, which might be important or might not.
By far my favourite line of all this.
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Old 08.02.2021, 13:12
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Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

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You are welcome. Thankfully there are no questions.
No direct questions. I just wrote the post in case somebody has an idea of what would be my choices in the circumstances I explained.
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Old 08.02.2021, 13:13
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Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

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By far my favourite line of all this.
Why? I have heard racism discrimination is an issue in Switzerland. That is why I pointed that out.
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Old 08.02.2021, 13:15
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Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

That's a difficult situation. The landlord says they are loud and the neighbour says they aren't. I'd ask a third party in the building if possible.

The question is: what can you do about it if the tenants continue to break the rules?
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Old 08.02.2021, 13:15
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Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

New Year's Eve party? That was 5 weeks ago. No surprise the bored neighbors still remember. It was probably the last thing that happened in the building. So, they will be main gossip topic in the building until something else happening replaces it. The subtenats have to deal with this with no crying.

And a second party with 15-20 peopel more recently? This part sounds strange. I simply cannot believe the neighbor did not call the police, and the police did not happily send every home with a fine.
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Old 08.02.2021, 13:24
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Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

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That's a difficult situation. The landlord says they are loud and the neighbour says they aren't. I'd ask a third party in the building if possible.

The question is: what can you do about it if the tenants continue to break the rules?
One of the neighbors said they keep being loud, the other one said it is fine and cozy, and it has been super easy.

My subtenants said they might have been loud the last time, but it was 8pm, they stopped, they were only 5, no 15/20 persons minimum, and no buses or limousines. The thing is the landlord gives credibility to the neighbor that complains.
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Old 08.02.2021, 13:27
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Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

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New Year's Eve party? That was 5 weeks ago. No surprise the bored neighbors still remember. It was probably the last thing that happened in the building. So, they will be main gossip topic in the building until something else happening replaces it. The subtenats have to deal with this with no crying.

And a second party with 15-20 peopel more recently? This part sounds strange. I simply cannot believe the neighbor did not call the police, and the police did not happily send every home with a fine.
True. He told me he was going to call the police at 22:01, but they stopped when I told my subtenants about the complaint. He shoudl have done it, so I will have a proof. Funny thing is every time my subtenants try to talk with him, he acts like everything is fine.
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Old 08.02.2021, 13:39
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Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

Maybe tell the neighbour to call the police next time so you have proof? Inform your subtenants this might happen. if nobody calls the police or police finds nothing to complain, problem solved.
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Old 08.02.2021, 13:42
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Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

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True. He told me he was going to call the police at 22:01, but they stopped when I told my subtenants about the complaint. He shoudl have done it, so I will have a proof. Funny thing is every time my subtenants try to talk with him, he acts like everything is fine.
Some years ago we made a New Year's Eve party and a few days later I received a registered letter from the real estate company telling that I was requested to be considerate to neighbors and respect the contract. I learned from this. Have you received a letter like this or only passive-aggressive calls and text messages? If something's really wrong the landlord would care enough to send a registered letter.

In any case, you subtenants seem to be not aware nothing happens in Switzerland, ever. As brown guy I can tell it's not racism. The New Years' party is probably as important for gossip as when one of the neighbors died. Doing things outside of the norms put you in the crosshairs of unwanted public attention. Enjoy it and wear it with pride, or become as gray as the bored neighbors.

Back to the main topic, you can draw an objective line to your subtenants. If the police shows up, they're out.
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Old 08.02.2021, 13:46
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Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

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Maybe tell the neighbour to call the police next time so you have proof? Inform your subtenants this might happen. if nobody calls the police or police finds nothing to complain, problem solved.
That is a good idea .
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Old 08.02.2021, 13:51
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Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

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Some years ago we made a New Year's Eve party and a few days later I received a registered letter from the real estate company telling that I was requested to be considerate to neighbors and respect the contract. I learned from this. Have you received a letter like this or only passive-aggressive calls and text messages? If something's really wrong the landlord would care enough to send a registered letter.

In any case, you subtenants seem to be not aware nothing happens in Switzerland, ever. As brown guy I can tell it's not racism. The New Years' party is probably as important for gossip as when one of the neighbors died. Doing things outside of the norms put you in the crosshairs of unwanted public attention. Enjoy it and wear it with pride, or become as gray as the bored neighbors.

Back to the main topic, you can draw an objective line to your subtenants. If the police shows up, they're out.
They did send me a letter (not registered) for the problem on New Year's Eve, and the subtenants agreed they were being loud because they were partying (with one of the other neighbors who got no complaints). I never had a problem before but I have heard Swiss neighbors can be difficult to handle .
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Old 08.02.2021, 14:03
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Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

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They did send me a letter (not registered) for the problem on New Year's Eve, and the subtenants agreed they were being loud because they were partying (with one of the other neighbors who got no complaints). I never had a problem before but I have heard Swiss neighbors can be difficult to handle .
The tenants of the apartment are the one which gets the blame and are responsible. If the party was in your apartment the other neighbor was just a guest and thus out of the loop.
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Old 08.02.2021, 14:09
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Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

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I contacted my subtenants and they had 5 friends over.
So a group of seven...
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Old 08.02.2021, 14:12
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Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

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So a group of seven...
Yes, (actually 6 because one of the subtenants was not at home at that moment).

I know this is now no longer allowed in Switzerland .
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Old 08.02.2021, 14:13
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Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

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Back to the main topic, you can draw an objective line to your subtenants. If the police shows up, they're out.
No, the police have to believe they have done something wrong, there might even be nobody in the apartment when they arrive.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 08.02.2021 at 21:44. Reason: fixed quote
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Old 08.02.2021, 14:15
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Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

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No, the police have to believe they have done something wrong, there might even be nobody in the apartment when they arrive.
Yes, to be precise: if the police shows up and they find something wrong.
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Old 08.02.2021, 14:15
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Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

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The tenants of the apartment are the one which gets the blame and are responsible. If the party was in your apartment the other neighbor was just a guest and thus out of the loop.
The party was in both apartments. We also shared the garden. There were people (guests) from his apartment in mine, and vice-versa. That event, my subtenants definitely understand. But now they do not agree with the new complaints and are quite upset. Where is the truth, though?
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Old 08.02.2021, 14:21
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Re: My subtenants vs My neighbour

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No, the police have to believe they have done something wrong, there might even be nobody in the apartment when they arrive.
I told the neighbor to take a picture or record a video of the noise, so I can see there IS a problem. But he says he doesn't want to intervene anymore, just want them out. He also said he talks in the name of all the neighbors, which doesn't seem so... Since the one who lives next to us is fine.

The problem is the landlord is pressing me about a situation they can't prove. But as the main tenant, I don't know how things can evolve if I don't act as they want me to.
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