I'm looking at moving to Switzerland to take a job in Zurich around September, Covid-depending. My partner and our baby are coming too.



I'm having a peek at housing options well in advance. But I want to find out if what I'm looking for is realistic, or if I should tailor my search or adjust my expectations.



Ideally, our new apartment (or house) would have:


* Ability to install our own washing machine. A communal setup would be a bit of a non-starter.



* A separate lockable garage with space for 1.5 or 2 cars, with power (for tools) and ideally with plumbing (for hosing down). We will have a car and between two and four motorcycles. A parking space, whether in the open or in an underground car park, is a non-starter for security, space requirements, and wouldn't work for motorcycle maintenance.


When I do accommodation searches, it's often unclear whether there is a separate lockable garage or merely a space in an underground car park. And garage size, power, plumbing etc. are never mentioned as far as I can see.


Does this exist in apartment terms? Or should I restrict my search to houses?


We spent a summer holiday in Chamonix a few years back, and that apartment had an in-apartment washing machine and a 1.5 space garage with power and plumbing, which set a benchmark for apartment living. But that was France, not the Zurich area.

I would stick to searching for houses. Purely based on the headache that regulating such a space in a communal context would pose, I seriously doubt that such a thing exists. Some older constructions may have this but you can't search for it online. And then it would typically come with some rule about Sundays and evenings to avoid disturbing other people. An individual lockable space included in the apartment complex is fantasyland. Source: 30 years of living in the Zurich area and noticing what people's homes look like.

Another reason why you probably want to look for a house: Friends who live in more modern rented apartments often have their own washing machines but are not allowed to use them after ten or on Sundays.

They exist, but other than viewing them in person there's not been a reliable way to tell what it is.

Older builds seem to be more likely to have the old separate garages, newer builds seem more likely to have the inbuilt washing machines. YMMV.

Yeah, in the seventies and early eighties there were a lot of buildings that gave ample options to do handywork and other on site infrastructure, even swimming pools. Now you are often lucky to get more than one space per apartment in the communal garage, never mind parking for a motorbike. They are even building places where renters have to sign an agreement to confirm that they don't own a car...

I think it's more French to have a "boxe" downstairs, a house is going to make things much easier. Note that the "hosing" part might not be obvious, you're often not supposed to wash you car / bike in shared spaces because of the water run-off, someone might well start tut-tutting.



A small thing on security, obviously you can't leave tools lying around but if it's the bikes things are generally much safer than London. In London my bike was under a cover, on a cable to a ground anchor and alarmed and it was still a worry, people would have a go...but here I've pulled off the alarm and the only thing holding it in place is the kickstand.

I guess the washing machine is the easy part. But, it's easier to look for an apartment with a washing machine already installed. Most modern apartments include fridge, dishwasher, washing machine and tumble dryer.

About washing the motorcycles, I guess you cannot do it even in a single home due to environmental protection laws. Spare a few coins and go to any carwash. There's a carwash or two in every town. Read this https://www.srf.ch/sendungen/kassens...eim-ist-heikel

About working on the motorcycles on a place you can lock, I guess you're looking for a garagenbox. There's a downside, it's very improbable to have this in the apartment building or house where you live due to noise protection. So, look for garagenbox mieten or garage werkstatt, mieten = rent. This is an example: https://www.immoscout24.ch/de/d/einz...t=10&ci=2&pn=1 If you check where it is on google maps, it's in the middle of an industrial area.

PS. I'm assuming average housing budget. maybe you can afford a house with all you need

That's a very valid point, if you're used to London bike security then here is a breeze. You rarely even see disc locks on parked bikes here.

I agree with Axa,

A house is typically much much more expensive than an appartment. And even so, you would probably be looking at some outlying location meaning a long commute (I guess this also depends on where you would be working). An alternative worth considering would be hiring a "box" away from your house that you could then furnish as a workshop. Sometimes people who don't use their own garage are also willing to rent it out. A friend of mine has a very neat looking 1960s classic Porsche in is garage (but no plates, just stored, and in need of some repairs). I first assumed it was his until I once asked him and he told me a guy is paying him rent to be allowed to park it there. Apparently the wife's not supposed to know he has it.

I have three lockable garages 200m from home (CHF 140/mo each) where I keep the bikes (6 or 7) and work on them, no power or water however, but I do have a lift and various battery powered equipment, and inverter or two, and a 2.2kW generator if I need to run something serious.

I wash my bikes by riding in the rain, or go to the local garage down the street so that I can use their pressure washer for free.

The garages also give me a de-facto spare car slot, as two of them face each other and are at the end of the parking area, so it's like four for the price of three. (the owner told me that if I ever rent the fourth, thus giving me two sets of opposing garages, he'll put up a roof for a car port!)

Tom

Why not? I worked on my bikes for years in a parking space, even pulling engines!

Only have had garages (first one, then two, now three) for the past 15 years or so.

Tom

This is all useful information. I think I'll be focusing on housing.



As to budget, I'd like to keep it under 5k CHF / month, but I could go higher if necessary to get what we want.



I don't mind a bit of a commute. I'm coming from London, where my commute is 40 minutes by bike or 60 to 80 minutes by public transport. There's no way I'd give up bikes - especially with the Alps on my doorstep - in return for a shorter commute.


Good info on lack of theft, though I'd understood that to largely be the case already. At last count, we've had 6 bikes stolen in London, including one bike-jacking at a stoplight and one attempted bike-jacking that I managed to outrun until I was able to stop at a stoplight with some other bikers.



As to fitted kitchens etc., I can see that's mostly the norm for apartments, at least the ones I've been looking at. We may need to compromise on quality, we'll see. We're very happy with our current Miele stuff and American-style fridge-freezer with ice dispenser etc. But I feel this is less of a constraint than the garage situation.


And to be clear, I wouldn't be washing bikes at home. I leave that to professionals if and when I feel I want a clean bike. It's specifically to hose off salt when the roads are salted.

The Police came up to me in Zurich when I was changing the oil on a bike in the street, I guess someone had said I was stealing the oil . Never had that issue changing car oil.

A house with workshop is difficult to find, I would guess a apartment is even harder. I am afraid you will most probably need to rent something separate.

Even if you would find a place you might run into issues with neighbors, people do not seem to find the "Brrrrrrrzzrzzrzrzrzrzrzr" sound of impact wrench as beautiful and sexy as we hobbyists do )) Smells from spilled fluids can be issue as well.

Another problem would be issues with environment protection, while some garages have direct feed into the plumbing it is for water only. Working on engines will always cause spillage of chemicals, we can be very careful (wood chips on the floor) but if someone complains the inspector would not take this as an argument and will most probably forbid this kind of mechanic work ((

What basis would an inspector have to forbid non-commercial mechanical work in a private property?

As long as you aren't causing pollution, there's nothing illegal about doing work and disposing of the mess appropriately. Spilling some oil on a properly sealed garage floor would not be a problem.

A friend of mine has an 18 bay garage in Campione (halfway between home and work), so I keep my compressor and rattle guns there, he has power and water.

Machine work I do at work.

Tom

I have rebuilt engines at home and in my work office, no problem.

Had a Ducati motor siting on my desk for 6 months waiting for the heads and cylinders to return from Montreal!

Tom

I think I'm coming up with two alternatives.

1) We rent a house with double garage. When narrowed in on houses and specified the right price band - 4k to 6k - I've found some very credible options. On the other hand, it's a lot of money to commit to a lease when moving.

2) We rent a newer apartment with a regular parking space add-on for a car and a separate garage for bikes elsewhere, ideally close by. Then, when we know the lay of the land better, we can make a more informed decision. Downside is a more awkward lifestyle than London and moving with the expectation of moving again.

The first option looks really appealing from some searches - we also have two indoor cats for which we have a cat run in our garden in London - but it's probably too risky to commit to with little information.

This thread was really useful in narrowing the search space. I don't seem to be able to thank anyone (maybe it comes with more karma or tenure?) but thanks in any case.

The problem with option #2 is that separate garages can be like hen's teeth.

I was lucky to find the first one (after 15 years), and the others just fell into place as I knew the previous renters (and the owner).

(moral of the story is to treat you neighbors well)

Tom

I really hope you find what you're looking for but it's not going to be easy, regardless of budget to be honest.

1. Washer/dryer is easy - as said by others many apartments now have them private.

2. Unless you have a dedicated garage "box" you will always run the risk of a nosy neighbour. I've been lucky and pulled some minor mechanical stuff in my last apartment. In a previous one not so much, people gave me the stink eye for changing my own wheels (summer/winter sets). Stink eye is not a reason to stop in itself, but for me it kind of ruins it having in the back of my head that someone might tell me off about something I didn't think off or whatever.

I have now found a suitable place in between work and home, and I'm putting tools, cabinets, parts, a car (or two) and a bike (or two) so I can have them sitting there and wrench whenever I need. It's in an industrial area, it's quite big and expensive for what I need it, but I'm partnering with friends so that it becomes bearable. During my search I could find dedicated places for rent where wrenching would be acceptable, in a 30min radius from Zurich city, and for anywhere between 500-1500 CHF depending on space and amenities (bathroom or not etc)

The dream of being able to wash my own car in my own space, I'm trying to hold on to, but not easy. Hosing the salt down should be doable if you have running water, but not much more than that. I know of places that have their own washing bays and they sound like a dream addition.

I'm now putting all my chips in the "I hope I can afford to build a house like I'd like it one day" and try to live with having a proper garage 20min from home and 10min from work.

__________________
Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool

I'll second Tom on finding garages, I've applied for a few of the box garages around here, and in my current spot I'm on the waiting list for one. But everybody else seems to on the list as well. Every time I see one open I'm jealous with everyone having all their bikes and tools in there.

I work on my bike in the parking space, it's mostly covered and nobody has said boo to me.

As to thanks, yes, it's related to how many posts you have. I think it's 10 posts to thank people. Best of luck with your search.