Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 28.02.2021, 19:39
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Zürich
Posts: 17
Groaned at 15 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
christianvonmoos has annoyed a few people around herechristianvonmoos has annoyed a few people around herechristianvonmoos has annoyed a few people around here
Who own the realestate in Switzerland?

Who own the real-estate in Switzerland? Is it super wealth individuals, foreign investors, pension companies, banks, normal people?

Does anyone have a rough overview of who owns the real-estate. Seems very un-affordable for normal people. Was considering buying a house and trying to understand how the swiss housing market works.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 28.02.2021, 19:47
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 6,796
Groaned at 308 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 15,857 Times in 4,848 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who own the realestate in Switzerland?

I own a house but then again, I’m far from normal.
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank olygirl for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 28.02.2021, 19:50
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 30,701
Groaned at 2,208 Times in 1,642 Posts
Thanked 36,926 Times in 17,486 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who own the realestate in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
I own a house but then again, I’m far from normal.
We own an apartment AND a rustico.

Only country I've lived in where I could afford to buy something.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 28.02.2021, 19:55
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nyon
Posts: 4,255
Groaned at 206 Times in 150 Posts
Thanked 5,818 Times in 2,720 Posts
bowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who own the realestate in Switzerland?

Well the Bank, my wife and I own a small chunk of CH. Regretfully we are not equal partners.
Reply With Quote
The following 14 users would like to thank bowlie for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 28.02.2021, 19:56
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Zurich
Posts: 54
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 46 Times in 25 Posts
SrkiKi has earned some respectSrkiKi has earned some respect
Re: Who own the realestate in Switzerland?

Depends how you define normal. We own 2.

Ownership rate will vary across the country. In Zurich city it will be at around 10%, if you go to Zentral Schweiz, will go up to well above 50%...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank SrkiKi for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 28.02.2021, 19:56
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 15,364
Groaned at 499 Times in 399 Posts
Thanked 22,300 Times in 9,058 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who own the realestate in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Well the Bank, my wife and I own a small chunk of CH. Regretfully we are not equal partners.
Does your wife know that?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 28.02.2021, 19:57
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 148
Groaned at 10 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 375 Times in 110 Posts
GParker has a reputation beyond reputeGParker has a reputation beyond reputeGParker has a reputation beyond reputeGParker has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who own the realestate in Switzerland?

Roughly 50% is owned by individuals, 30% pension funds / assets managers and remaining 20% is made up of municipal, kanton and cooperatives.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank GParker for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 28.02.2021, 20:02
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 8,075
Groaned at 344 Times in 234 Posts
Thanked 11,550 Times in 3,983 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who own the realestate in Switzerland?

The largest owner of Swiss real estate is insurer Swiss Life...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 28.02.2021, 20:04
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 7,583
Groaned at 75 Times in 61 Posts
Thanked 11,197 Times in 4,556 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who own the realestate in Switzerland?

Here are some statistics about the percentage of people living in rented or owned properties.
https://de.statista.com/statistik/da...2057%20Prozent.

Of course, as others have indicated, there's lots of land reserved for other purposes than accommodation.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01.03.2021, 10:32
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 2,242
Groaned at 27 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 2,985 Times in 1,381 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who own the realestate in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Does your wife know that?
I think the joke was that the bank owns most the house
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 01.03.2021, 11:35
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: London
Posts: 166
Groaned at 77 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 356 Times in 106 Posts
Brian1985 has earned the respect of manyBrian1985 has earned the respect of manyBrian1985 has earned the respect of many
Re: Who own the realestate in Switzerland?

You can run some numbers on your own to get an idea but here is my take.

Let's take a CHF 1m property, which doesn't really buy anything decent in Zurich. 20% deposit (200k), a 15% amortizing mortgage (150k) and a 65% interest only mortgage (650k). I can get financing for 1% with most banks.

Your annual cashflows are: (i) interest of 8k on the 2 mortgages, (ii) home maintenance costs of 1% of the purchase price so 10k, (iii) 1% amortization of the 1st mortgage so 10k. That's total annual cashflows of 28k. Divide that by 12 months and you get 2.3k per month. Most lenders wont allow you to spend more than 1/3rd of pay on housing costs so you need monthly income of 7k.

Now here is the funny part. Apply a 5% interest rate to the above (as per the stress test that banks do) and that monthly number goes up to 5k which means you need a monthly income of 15k to qualify.

When I look at income distributions, I recon that less than 5% of the population would qualify for a mortgage on their own and roughly 20/25% would qualify as a high-earning couple...say a 2-income household where both partners make 8k each per month and have 1/no kids.

https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home....12488554.html
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Brian1985 for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 01.03.2021, 11:53
Talk to you later's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,061
Groaned at 43 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 1,899 Times in 723 Posts
Talk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who own the realestate in Switzerland?

Quote:
Who own the realestate in Switzerland?
The guy in this documentary owns some of it

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01.03.2021, 22:17
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,621
Groaned at 154 Times in 100 Posts
Thanked 7,658 Times in 2,613 Posts
Kittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who own the realestate in Switzerland?

Why, are you looking to infiltrate those circles to reduce the risk of having to pay alimony for a child?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Kittster for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 01.03.2021, 22:57
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,300
Groaned at 276 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 17,708 Times in 7,474 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who own the realestate in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
The guy in this documentary owns some of it

Thanks for the link. In contrast to the "can i survive on 120k" posts, it is humbling to watch someone having to shop for a family on a tight budget and avoid buying more than she can afford.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02.03.2021, 08:18
Talk to you later's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,061
Groaned at 43 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 1,899 Times in 723 Posts
Talk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who own the realestate in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for the link. In contrast to the "can i survive on 120k" posts, it is humbling to watch someone having to shop for a family on a tight budget and avoid buying more than she can afford.

The couple on high wages moaning that they are left with only CHF500 per month really irritated me in comparison. The couple already have a 4th kid on the way and I have a feeling that they are not going to stop there


EDIT- I bet they are on EF too!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Talk to you later for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 02.03.2021, 10:20
eyebeebe's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Pfäffikon SZ
Posts: 1,971
Groaned at 17 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,449 Times in 1,079 Posts
eyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who own the realestate in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
You can run some numbers on your own to get an idea but here is my take.

Let's take a CHF 1m property, which doesn't really buy anything decent in Zurich. 20% deposit (200k), a 15% amortizing mortgage (150k) and a 65% interest only mortgage (650k). I can get financing for 1% with most banks.

Your annual cashflows are: (i) interest of 8k on the 2 mortgages, (ii) home maintenance costs of 1% of the purchase price so 10k, (iii) 1% amortization of the 1st mortgage so 10k. That's total annual cashflows of 28k. Divide that by 12 months and you get 2.3k per month. Most lenders wont allow you to spend more than 1/3rd of pay on housing costs so you need monthly income of 7k.

Now here is the funny part. Apply a 5% interest rate to the above (as per the stress test that banks do) and that monthly number goes up to 5k which means you need a monthly income of 15k to qualify.

When I look at income distributions, I recon that less than 5% of the population would qualify for a mortgage on their own and roughly 20/25% would qualify as a high-earning couple...say a 2-income household where both partners make 8k each per month and have 1/no kids.

https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home....12488554.html
As you say, CHF 1m doesn‘t buy much in large parts of Switzerland and particularly not in parts where earning CHF 180k is a relatively common household income.

When we were buying 3 years ago, we considered moving back to Zurich and I remember looking at Europaallee and thinking who the hell a) can afford CHF 2m+ (So by your calculations CHF 360k pa household income) for an apartment and b) is at a life stage where living in a pokey apartment seems like a good idea. And they get more expensive.

Looking on homegate.ch it seems they‘ve all sold though and now it‘s that kind of money to buy in Zurich-West.

I also can‘t quite get my head round who can afford to buy all the CHF 3m to the sky is the limit priced apartments and houses in my neck of the woods.

The only conclusion I‘ve been able to come to is it‘s people who have ridden the property wave over the last 20 years and are using the bank of mum and dad, but generally the Swiss don‘t seem to move very often.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank eyebeebe for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 02.03.2021, 10:31
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,300
Groaned at 276 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 17,708 Times in 7,474 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who own the realestate in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
As you say, CHF 1m doesn‘t buy much in large parts of Switzerland and particularly not in parts where earning CHF 180k is a relatively common household income.

When we were buying 3 years ago, we considered moving back to Zurich and I remember looking at Europaallee and thinking who the hell a) can afford CHF 2m+ (So by your calculations CHF 360k pa household income) for an apartment and b) is at a life stage where living in a pokey apartment seems like a good idea. And they get more expensive.

Looking on homegate.ch it seems they‘ve all sold though and now it‘s that kind of money to buy in Zurich-West.

I also can‘t quite get my head round who can afford to buy all the CHF 3m to the sky is the limit priced apartments and houses in my neck of the woods.

The only conclusion I‘ve been able to come to is it‘s people who have ridden the property wave over the last 20 years and are using the bank of mum and dad, but generally the Swiss don‘t seem to move very often.
this is the price list i got from europaallee as it was under construction in 2012:

https://i.ibb.co/hf7J9Wq/Screenshot-...2-10-29-53.png

2 years later in 2014, I wrote on facebook: "I looked at buying an apartment in Europaalle, but figured it was not worth it due to low rental yield. I obviously hadn't imagined people would try renting these apartments for 14k a month" that was for a 2 bedroom apartment...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 02.03.2021, 10:50
eyebeebe's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Pfäffikon SZ
Posts: 1,971
Groaned at 17 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,449 Times in 1,079 Posts
eyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who own the realestate in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
this is the price list i got from europaallee as it was under construction in 2012:

https://i.ibb.co/hf7J9Wq/Screenshot-...2-10-29-53.png

2 years later in 2014, I wrote on facebook: "I looked at buying an apartment in Europaalle, but figured it was not worth it due to low rental yield. I obviously hadn't imagined people would try renting these apartments for 14k a month" that was for a 2 bedroom apartment...
Guessing by the date those were some of the first ones near the HB. In 2017 it was the ones closer to Langstrasse that were being offered. I can’t remember exact prices, but pretty sure it was over CHF 2m for a 2.5 room apartment.

Further to my earlier point, I can‘t understand who could and would pay 14k a month for one. That‘s way beyond a typical expat package housing allowance, probably even for a board member.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02.03.2021, 11:12
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,300
Groaned at 276 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 17,708 Times in 7,474 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who own the realestate in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Guessing by the date those were some of the first ones near the HB. In 2017 it was the ones closer to Langstrasse that were being offered. I can’t remember exact prices, but pretty sure it was over CHF 2m for a 2.5 room apartment.

Further to my earlier point, I can‘t understand who could and would pay 14k a month for one. That‘s way beyond a typical expat package housing allowance, probably even for a board member.
yup the prices were for the early ones built near HB. not really looked at the housing market in zurich, but i guess prices and rents kept on going up...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 02.03.2021, 14:37
Dinivan's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 183
Groaned at 28 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 225 Times in 117 Posts
Dinivan is considered knowledgeableDinivan is considered knowledgeableDinivan is considered knowledgeable
Re: Who own the realestate in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Guessing by the date those were some of the first ones near the HB. In 2017 it was the ones closer to Langstrasse that were being offered. I can’t remember exact prices, but pretty sure it was over CHF 2m for a 2.5 room apartment.

Further to my earlier point, I can‘t understand who could and would pay 14k a month for one. That‘s way beyond a typical expat package housing allowance, probably even for a board member.
Airbnbs?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
economics, housing, real estate, wealth




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trading US Stocks while in Switzerland ==> Owe Switzerland Taxes? Shlarin Finance/banking/taxation 30 04.03.2020 08:01
Work for an Italian company with client in Switzerland, live in Switzerland chrisba Permits/visas/government 0 25.12.2019 19:41
Tax & AVS, living in Switzerland but working everywhere including Switzerland meechew Finance/banking/taxation 1 10.08.2016 19:53
EU citizen living in Switzerland, working in EU - can spouse work in Switzerland ohboy Permits/visas/government 3 29.03.2016 19:45
27 days and 26 nights in Switzerland (all time in Switzerland) marcosguisilva Travel/day trips/free time 3 15.04.2013 15:41


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0