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Old 03.03.2021, 18:56
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Legal aspect: can I deduct 120 CHF from my last rent payments?

To summarize: I don't trust the regie (house managing company), legally do I have the right to deduct 120 CHF from my final rent payments or do I still have to pay the "provisions des charges" amount specified in the contract, even it's higher than another neighbor? The final charges is equal for each apartment each year. but the initial "provisions" seems different

"charges" is the French word, it covers water, heating and diverse fees.

I am paying a higher rent than my neighbors with the same apartment, but I recently noticed that even for "provisions des charges", I pay 100 CHF per month and a neighbor only pays 90.

Normally we get the calculations of the charges the following year and the regie gives back the over-paid money, so I will get back 120 (12 X 10) CHF more than my neighbor. but I will quit Geneva in a few months. and the regie has a bad reputation including Google Reviews and I suffered with my interactions with them in the past. Several years ago they didn't send me the calculations for reimbursement for apartment A when I moved from apartment A to my current one, both managed by the same regie)

Do you think I shall deduct this 120CHF from my last rental payments? as I will not have control if they don't contact me on 2022 or reimburse the difference or I should continue to pay the same 100 CHF as this amount was stipulated in my contract and takes the risk of losing +120 CHF?

Thanks

Last edited by neutralname; 03.03.2021 at 20:44. Reason: modified the title with more accuracte description
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Old 03.03.2021, 19:00
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Re: do I have to pay "charges" for my apartment, higher than my neighbor

There could be a number of reasons why your "charges" are higher than your neighbour (number of tenants, previous tenants, m2, etc.).

Keep paying charges as included in your contract. The Regie will have to reimburse you the difference.

Did the Regie fail to reimburse you the difference the previous years?
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Old 03.03.2021, 19:03
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Re: do I have to pay "charges" for my apartment, higher than my neighbor

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There could be a number of reasons why your "charges" are higher than your neighbour (number of tenants, previous tenants, m2, etc.).

Keep paying charges as included in your contract. The Regie will have to reimburse you the difference.

Did the Regie fail to reimburse you the difference the previous years?
Thanks. I am living by myself, 1 person, what is m2?

I just edited my post, several years ago they didn't send the calculations to me last time when I moved out of my previous apartment, managed by the same regie
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Old 03.03.2021, 19:16
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Re: do I have to pay "charges" for my apartment, higher than my neighbor

Another reason for higher charges for the same apartment could be orientation of the apartment and the floor of the building that it is situated on. For example a South facing apartment on the 2nd floor is expected to have lower heating charges than a North facing penthouse.
I suggest you continue paying your charges as stated in your contract, the régie will reimburse you any difference as has done in the past.

Edit: m2 are square metres.
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Old 03.03.2021, 20:13
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Re: Legal aspect: do I have to pay "charges" for my apartment, higher than my neighbo

Do you have an elevator?

Tom
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Old 03.03.2021, 20:14
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Re: do I have to pay "charges" for my apartment, higher than my neighbor

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Another reason for higher charges for the same apartment could be orientation of the apartment and the floor of the building that it is situated on. For example a South facing apartment on the 2nd floor is expected to have lower heating charges than a North facing penthouse.
I suggest you continue paying your charges as stated in your contract, the régie will reimburse you any difference as has done in the past.

Edit: m2 are square metres.
Thanks, to clarify we have exactly the same M2, and the same orientation, that neighbor lives 2 floors above me.

In the past with this regie, they sent the calculation FOR THE SAME APARTMENT but when I moved from apartment A to B several years ago(both managed by them), they haven't sent me the calculation of apartment A, and now I am in the same situation, leaving but for another city.
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Old 03.03.2021, 20:19
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Re: Legal aspect: do I have to pay "charges" for my apartment, higher than my neighbo

I could be different because you have the heating on more? Our heating costs are calculated per apartment use, not just divided equally.
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Old 03.03.2021, 20:20
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Re: Legal aspect: do I have to pay "charges" for my apartment, higher than my neighbo

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I could be different because you have the heating on more? Our heating costs are calculated per apartment use, not just divided equally.
no, the regie asks me 10 CHF more each month but also reimburse me 10 CHF more than my neighbor. the only issue is I am leaving and am not sure will get the details and reimbursement next year
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Old 03.03.2021, 20:30
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Re: Legal aspect: do I have to pay "charges" for my apartment, higher than my neighbo

You want to have a legal mess over CHF 120????

No, you should not deduct that from your last payment as that can cost you a lot more than that later on.
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Old 03.03.2021, 20:39
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Re: Legal aspect: do I have to pay "charges" for my apartment, higher than my neighbo

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no, the regie asks me 10 CHF more each month but also reimburse me 10 CHF more than my neighbor. the only issue is I am leaving and am not sure will get the details and reimbursement next year
When we moved out of our last place, our landlord did the calculations up to our move out date and refunded us just after. Speak to your landlord.
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Old 03.03.2021, 20:46
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Re: Legal aspect: do I have to pay "charges" for my apartment, higher than my neighbo

To be honest I would speak directly to them and explain the situation. I'm sure they will be able to provide you with an adequate answer.
But again, don't try and pay less than what stated in your contract, it certainly won't work in your favor.
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Old 03.03.2021, 20:49
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Re: Legal aspect: do I have to pay "charges" for my apartment, higher than my neighbo

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To be honest I would speak directly to them and explain the situation. I'm sure they will be able to provide you with an adequate answer.
But again, don't try and pay less than what stated in your contract, it certainly won't work in your favor.
Thanks but communication is useless with them with my experience , as they are one of the biggest in Geneva and has a Google reviews of less than 3 points...

I have to make a decision, either to deduct it without their consent or continue paying the stipulated amount and take the risk of losing 120 more CHF, I will do the first if it's legal
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Old 03.03.2021, 20:57
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Re: Legal aspect: do I have to pay "charges" for my apartment, higher than my neighbo

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Thanks but communication is useless with them with my experience , as they are one of the biggest in Geneva and has a Google reviews of less than 3 points...

I have to make a decision, either to deduct it without their consent or continue paying the stipulated amount and take the risk of losing 120 more CHF, I will do the first if it's legal
It's certainly not legal and will get you into troubles. But I get the feeling that you've already made up your mind..

Concerning the communication part, if you clearly and to the point, state your concern inside the termination letter and ask them how this matter will be handled, I'm sure they will get back to you.
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Old 03.03.2021, 21:02
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Re: Legal aspect: do I have to pay "charges" for my apartment, higher than my neighbo

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It's certainly not legal and will get you into troubles. But I get the feeling that you've already made up your mind..

Concerning the communication part, if you clearly and to the point, state your concern inside the termination letter and ask them how this matter will be handled, I'm sure they will get back to you.
Thanks, I was only asking if it is legal. No I haven't made up my mind for my action
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Old 03.03.2021, 21:14
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Re: Legal aspect: can I deduct 120 CHF from my last rent payments?

Cue the "legal vs illegal" debate. The police aren't going to visit you if that's what you mean. I would suppose that eventually they'd take the money out of any repayment to you or out of your deposit but until they get around to calculating that, you owe them the money according to the contract. You could get a Betreibung. You could ask if you could pay less but they'd probably say they don't have the calculations yet. Fair argument.

If you think you won't get the overpayment back then I don't know why the 120CHF difference to your neighbour would make such a difference. You could talk to your Regie now and ask for a reduction in charges. Maybe that's what your neighbour already did.

I think the Regie is obliged to provide you with the cost assessment and return any money, even for your previous place. Did you just decide not to persue that one? Play by the rules then persue the Regie if you don't get the money back. Not paying this fraction is highly unlikely to make them feel like doing you any favours.
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Old 04.03.2021, 00:35
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Re: Legal aspect: can I deduct 120 CHF from my last rent payments?

Higher floors may be modelled to use less energy as heat rises...
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Old 06.03.2021, 10:55
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Re: Legal aspect: can I deduct 120 CHF from my last rent payments?

Thanks, I did persue for the old one, but they just sent a calculation with the conclusion that I owe them 3 CHF. As I already left that building and it has been more than 1 year. I have no way to confirm with anyone, as I didn't know any neighbor there. But the fact that they havan't taken initiatives to me the calculation and they haven't asked me the 3 CHF already says a lot...

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Cue the "legal vs illegal" debate. The police aren't going to visit you if that's what you mean. I would suppose that eventually they'd take the money out of any repayment to you or out of your deposit but until they get around to calculating that, you owe them the money according to the contract. You could get a Betreibung. You could ask if you could pay less but they'd probably say they don't have the calculations yet. Fair argument.

If you think you won't get the overpayment back then I don't know why the 120CHF difference to your neighbour would make such a difference. You could talk to your Regie now and ask for a reduction in charges. Maybe that's what your neighbour already did.

I think the Regie is obliged to provide you with the cost assessment and return any money, even for your previous place. Did you just decide not to persue that one? Play by the rules then persue the Regie if you don't get the money back. Not paying this fraction is highly unlikely to make them feel like doing you any favours.

Seems lots of people fail to understand that in my building, each neighbor always pay the same amount for the charges when their calculations is done, the different here is the PROVISIONS of charges, the provisional amount which we pay with our rent


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Higher floors may be modelled to use less energy as heat rises...
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Old 06.03.2021, 11:42
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Re: Legal aspect: can I deduct 120 CHF from my last rent payments?

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Seems lots of people fail to understand ... each neighbor always pay the same amount for the charges
Hardly surprising, when you conspicuously failed to mention that fact in the first post.
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Old 06.03.2021, 15:28
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Re: Legal aspect: can I deduct 120 CHF from my last rent payments?

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Hardly surprising, when you conspicuously failed to mention that fact in the first post.
the word "provisions" appear at least twice in my initial post, I don't know how to be clearer
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