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  #61  
Old 31.03.2021, 16:15
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Re: Apartment parking charge station for hybrid / electric cars .. who pays?

Well, a nice plug-in hybrid platform was announced yesterday. I can totally live with a 2 liter 4 cylinder gasoline engine that yields 330 KW (442HP). Electric turbo makes possible an specific output of 220 HP per liter of displacement. Additionally, an electric KERS gives another 200 HP when requested. KERS appeared on Formula 1 on 2009-2019, now comes to street cars. I feel like living in the future

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Old 31.03.2021, 21:55
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Re: Apartment parking charge station for hybrid / electric cars .. who pays?

Those Hybrids will be very short-lived.
Euro 7 will kill most of them.

The future of Hybrids is going to look like the BMW i3 with the range extender.

That was killed a while ago, because sales were disappointing.

The future is EV-only.
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Old 31.03.2021, 22:17
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Re: Apartment parking charge station for hybrid / electric cars .. who pays?

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The future is EV-only.
Bummer.

Tom
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  #64  
Old 01.04.2021, 08:35
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Re: Apartment parking charge station for hybrid / electric cars .. who pays?

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Those Hybrids will be very short-lived.
Euro 7 will kill most of them.

The future of Hybrids is going to look like the BMW i3 with the range extender.

That was killed a while ago, because sales were disappointing.

The future is EV-only.
The future is BULLSHIT!
https://youtu.be/jf5t6jn87WQ
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  #65  
Old 01.04.2021, 16:10
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Re: Apartment parking charge station for hybrid / electric cars .. who pays?

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Bummer.

Tom
Iím sure you can drive your historic cars for a while, if you can find somebody who sells you fuel for them.
But donít expect any new cars with newer engines to come out.

Nobody is investing any money anymore into the development of internal combustion engines.

This is, quiet literally, the beginning of the end.
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  #66  
Old 01.04.2021, 16:24
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Re: Apartment parking charge station for hybrid / electric cars .. who pays?

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Iím sure you can drive your historic cars for a while, if you can find somebody who sells you fuel for them.
But donít expect any new cars with newer engines to come out.

Nobody is investing any money anymore into the development of internal combustion engines.

This is, quiet literally, the beginning of the end.
What matters for emissions is what most people drive. But I don't care about what most people drive If I cared about the mainstream I'd be driving a Quashqai https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2021...cup-24052.html

Maybe I should invest in one of the crazy crate engines on sale today and keep it in the cellar until I find something suitable to do with it.
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Old 01.04.2021, 17:01
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Re: Apartment parking charge station for hybrid / electric cars .. who pays?

We paid 1900 CHF (other quotes where 2500 and more) for a CEE16 RED plug install in the garage for our car, then we have a Juice Booster 2 plugged in there, which we can take along if we want to charge elsewhere. Juice Booster has a whole bunch of plugs that ensure you can plug in around the world more or less, not that most charging away from home happens with CCS at GoFast & Ionity, but hey

For short distances we typically lose 20% of charge, which is easily charged overnight. But with CEE16 and single phase, a full charge might take 26 hours.

LIDL is always a nice option if you shop there anyway as they tend to have 50kW ABB chargers there, otherwise use www.abetterrouteplanner.com or www.chargemap.com and find a local one. Get a RFID card from www.Swisscharge.ch for quickness of charging (faster than all the silly apps)
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  #68  
Old 01.04.2021, 18:40
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Re: Apartment parking charge station for hybrid / electric cars .. who pays?

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Nobody is investing any money anymore into the development of internal combustion engines.
Rubbish, I have an old school friend who comes to Torino a few times a year to check on engine development at their Italian subsidiary.

Tom
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  #69  
Old 01.04.2021, 19:05
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Re: Apartment parking charge station for hybrid / electric cars .. who pays?

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I’m sure you can drive your historic cars for a while, if you can find somebody who sells you fuel for them.
But don’t expect any new cars with newer engines to come out.

Nobody is investing any money anymore into the development of internal combustion engines.

This is, quiet literally, the beginning of the end.
I really don't think so, fuel is energy dense and as engines become more economical they make even more sense.

50 litres (37kg) of fuel gives me a range of 800 km, engine and transmission in a small car is about 150 kg. EVs need a half ton battery to get half that range (even less when you factor in things like heating and A/C).

Thats a huge loss of efficiency having to haul a depleting battery, whereas a gasoline car becomes more efficient as it gets lighter on fuel. Then you factor in the time you have to wait around for your car to charge on longer journeys.

They definitely make sense as city cars, but I would hold off until battery technology improves and the packs become lighter + charging becomes quicker e.g. replaceable battery packs.
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Old 01.04.2021, 21:45
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Re: Apartment parking charge station for hybrid / electric cars .. who pays?

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I really don't think so, fuel is energy dense and as engines become more economical they make even more sense.

50 litres (37kg) of fuel gives me a range of 800 km, engine and transmission in a small car is about 150 kg. EVs need a half ton battery to get half that range (even less when you factor in things like heating and A/C).

Thats a huge loss of efficiency having to haul a depleting battery, whereas a gasoline car becomes more efficient as it gets lighter on fuel. Then you factor in the time you have to wait around for your car to charge on longer journeys.

They definitely make sense as city cars, but I would hold off until battery technology improves and the packs become lighter + charging becomes quicker e.g. replaceable battery packs.
You mistake energy density with fuel efficiency.
BEVs are much more efficient, if you translate those 50l into the equivalent energy (kWh) and compare that to what a BEV uses, you will realize that.

The weight of the car is not that important when it comes to efficiency. Wind resistance and the efficiency of the drive train are far more important.
While the battery is heavy, BEVs donít carry heavy engines and usually only a very simple gearbox.
And of course, burning dinosaur oil for mobility is not really a sustainable solution for transport for the whole planet (unless you imply that mobility should only exist for the 1%) - and that does not even factor in the problems with exploration, exploitation, transformation and transport - on multiple levels - that it creates.
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  #71  
Old 01.04.2021, 23:10
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Re: Apartment parking charge station for hybrid / electric cars .. who pays?

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burning dinosaur oil for mobility is not really a sustainable solution for transport for the whole planet (unless you imply that mobility should only exist for the 1%) - and that does not even factor in the problems with exploration, exploitation, transformation and transport - on multiple levels - that it creates.
But it's much more fun, and far better for the environment than mining rare earth metals for exotic batteries.

Screw EVs!

Tom
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  #72  
Old 02.04.2021, 00:04
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Re: Apartment parking charge station for hybrid / electric cars .. who pays?

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But it's much more fun, and far better for the environment than mining rare earth metals for exotic batteries.

Screw EVs!

Tom
Tesla's next generation battery cells already will come without any of those rare earth materials. And they will use very much less water in the production, too.
Even today, the cells they use come with one of the lowest (if not the lowest) amount of rare-earth metals in the industry.

You (and a lot of other people) also (conveniently) forget that most of the same metals are also used in today's catalytic converters (and have been for decades). Nobody cared about that.

The only problem I have with BEVs is that because I drive very little, a rather lot of energy would be lost while the car is on standby.

One could argue that if one drives so little, a car wouldn't be needed to begin with.

I do still drive my 20 year old ICE-car, I just don't plan on buying another one.
Once my needs change or this one is no longer repairable (which is a bit of a gray area, because you can repair a lot if you spend a lot...), I will switch.

While the actual value of a car was always much lower than the sticker-price (thus the large rebates you get on commercial leases), the deprecation on ICE-cars sold today will be staggering (IMO).
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  #73  
Old 02.04.2021, 08:53
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Re: Apartment parking charge station for hybrid / electric cars .. who pays?

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But it's much more fun, and far better for the environment than mining rare earth metals for exotic batteries.

Screw EVs!

Tom
I donĎt think you are qualified to give an opinion on EVs until you have driven one...
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  #74  
Old 02.04.2021, 09:03
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Re: Apartment parking charge station for hybrid / electric cars .. who pays?

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We paid 1900 CHF (other quotes where 2500 and more) for a CEE16 RED plug install in the garage for our car, then we have a Juice Booster 2 plugged in there, which we can take along if we want to charge elsewhere. Juice Booster has a whole bunch of plugs that ensure you can plug in around the world more or less, not that most charging away from home happens with CCS at GoFast & Ionity, but hey

For short distances we typically lose 20% of charge, which is easily charged overnight. But with CEE16 and single phase, a full charge might take 26 hours.

LIDL is always a nice option if you shop there anyway as they tend to have 50kW ABB chargers there, otherwise use www.abetterrouteplanner.com or www.chargemap.com and find a local one. Get a RFID card from www.Swisscharge.ch for quickness of charging (faster than all the silly apps)
CEE 16 Red is 3 phase, blue is single phase, still only 16 amps per phase should ne no big deal to supply.
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  #75  
Old 02.04.2021, 10:10
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Re: Apartment parking charge station for hybrid / electric cars .. who pays?

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You mistake energy density with fuel efficiency.
BEVs are much more efficient, if you translate those 50l into the equivalent energy (kWh) and compare that to what a BEV uses, you will realize that.

The weight of the car is not that important when it comes to efficiency. Wind resistance and the efficiency of the drive train are far more important.
While the battery is heavy, BEVs donít carry heavy engines and usually only a very simple gearbox.
And of course, burning dinosaur oil for mobility is not really a sustainable solution for transport for the whole planet (unless you imply that mobility should only exist for the 1%) - and that does not even factor in the problems with exploration, exploitation, transformation and transport - on multiple levels - that it creates.
ICE cars are definitely not the future but they're also not dead yet. ICE and EV can co-exist for many years to come as both continue to evolve, but for now the case for going 'all-in' with EV just isn't there for me.

I would have to start obsessing about range in a way I don't even think about now e.g. losing upto 40% range in extreme cold or heat, weighing up whether to use the A/C on a sweltering day or drive through to Karlsruhe with the windows open because I don't want to miss my meeting etc.. I think the BMW i3 range extender is on a better track having a small 2-stroke generator, that would sway me if it were an option in a Tesla.
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Old 03.04.2021, 10:34
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Re: Apartment parking charge station for hybrid / electric cars .. who pays?

Just because it's EV doesn't mean it wont pollute.
This link explains some what https://www.rd.com/article/the-probl...h-hybrid-cars/

Gas: 5.6 tons of CO2 to produce
EV: 8.8 tons

Not to mention all the water and land pollution taking place. And who is going to recycle em?
https://www.nationalobserver.com/202...heir-batteries

Also not all have such hot ratings
https://www.autoblog.com/2020/12/01/...RuzpOIHXyZOoTF

My personal grudge against getting one. Too much juice is needed to stay warm n cozy in winter and I really can't afford to waste time n eat out while waiting for the dam thing to charge in a car park.

However, I am intrigued by the e-boxer and believe that its a good application of battery tech.. https://www.subaru.ch/subaru-erleben...e-boxer-hybrid
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Old 03.04.2021, 14:22
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Re: Apartment parking charge station for hybrid / electric cars .. who pays?

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My personal grudge against getting one. Too much juice is needed to stay warm n cozy in winter and I really can't afford to waste time n eat out while waiting for the dam thing to charge in a car park.
(All in reference to Tesla Model 3)

Winter heating: current model has a heat-pump for heating which consumes little battery - in fact my pre heat pump uses very little extra power.

Prior to driving and when still pugged in, the car can be heated - including heated seats and air con in the summer. So no battery drain at all.

If you do forget to preheat, unlike and ICE car heating is instant.

With regard to waiting time: the journey from Zurich HB to Eurotunnel in Calais requires 3 stops and a total recharge time of 56 minutes.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg EV-to-Calais.jpg (217.0 KB, 222 views)

Last edited by AbFab; 03.04.2021 at 15:01. Reason: ADDED MAP FROM ABETTERROUTEPLANNER.COM
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Old 03.04.2021, 14:41
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Re: Apartment parking charge station for hybrid / electric cars .. who pays?

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With regard to waiting time: the journey from Zurich HB to Eurotunnel in Calais requires 3 stops and a total recharge time of 56 minutes. (Image to follow)
If you only have 1 driver, then very reasonable.

Range sounds particularly poor if 4 charges are required to go 840 km, my departed friend Jon Dooley would roll in his grave he would happily drive 1500km in a day even aged 70 https://alfaracer.com/jon-dooley-an-...ife-1946-2020/
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Old 03.04.2021, 17:52
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Re: Apartment parking charge station for hybrid / electric cars .. who pays?

Thereís a reason commercial drivers have to take a break of 45 minutes every 4.5h....
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Old 04.04.2021, 15:28
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Re: Apartment parking charge station for hybrid / electric cars .. who pays?

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Thereís a reason commercial drivers have to take a break of 45 minutes every 4.5h....
EU red tape?
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