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-   -   have zurich house prices gone up in the last year? (https://www.englishforum.ch/housing-general/303393-have-zurich-house-prices-gone-up-last-year.html)

ZurichLuck 29.03.2021 12:47

have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
hi ef! yeh i was just wondering. i want to buy a place in zurich and actually, it seems to me that prices have increased quite a bit since 2018/19 when I was looking into buying a house the last time.

tbh im no expert or anything and just wondered a. is it me or have prices increased? and b. is it typical?

i was just reading a few newspaper articles that all say how swiss house prices have been going up up up for a decade and more, so maybe that's just what happens. i know switzerland is called a seller'smarket and that very few people want to sell anyway. you do a house search in the uk and 2000 houses come up. here, like 15!:D:D

Massa 29.03.2021 16:14

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
In a word yes! The pandemic has seen a huge demand here & in other countries for houses - people want more space & to live outside the city. Saw something from UBS a couple of weeks ago suggesting 5% or more increases in last 12 months depending on location across Switzerland. In reality it’s probably a lot more given the lack of supply & huge demand.

fatmanfilms 29.03.2021 16:20

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Massa (Post 3290853)
In a word yes! The pandemic has seen a huge demand here & in other countries for houses - people want more space & to live outside the city. Saw something from UBS a couple of weeks ago suggesting 5% or more increases in last 12 months depending on location across Switzerland. In reality it’s probably a lot more given the lack of supply & huge demand.

Remember demand is the ability to pay rather than desire. I don't believe the ability to pay has increased over the last 12 months.

axman 29.03.2021 16:41

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
I am not surprised though how many people have money in this country.

I see more and more adverts in the local newspaper from "families seeking minimum 5.5 room" properties, with "komfortables" budget... We are talking CHF2m plus on the silver coast and at these prices I don't think these people take out full mortgages because the family would need to have an annual income of around 400k to pass bank's affordability tests. So they must have more than CHF400k of equity available.

newtoswitz 29.03.2021 17:25

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 3290855)
Remember demand is the ability to pay rather than desire. I don't believe the ability to pay has increased over the last 12 months.

I wouldn't agree with this - in a rich country like Switzerland, purely the ability to pay is often not a factor in financial decisions, even for property with a very tight market.

I think the value of properties which are better for home working have probably increased a little, and the value of those near big employers but in otherwise crappy locations have probably gone down a bit.

At least a couple of my younger employees have moved away from their parents earlier than planned because of home working (renting obviously). The affordability hasn't changed, it's still marginal, but the need has.

eyebeebe 29.03.2021 18:21

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 3290855)
Remember demand is the ability to pay rather than desire. I don't believe the ability to pay has increased over the last 12 months.

Ability AND willingness.

I can well imagine there are people who could afford to buy what has become a more desirable property on the city outskirts, but couldn‘t afford to buy the city centre apartment they rent. 2 years ago they didn’t want to live in the suburbs and beyond. With extended home working a reality, these people may have reassessed what they want from a property and realised that they could have it further away from the city.

Brian1985 29.03.2021 19:20

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
There is no Swiss housing market. Each geminde is its own housing market. For example, there are probably >50 families in Thalwil who would love to own and can afford a 5.5 room apartment, and who have kids in the local school and who like their commute from Thalwil to Zurich. The supply of 5.5 room apartments is probably between 5-10 (that are actually advertised) and so in that particular geminde you will have a massive supply/demand imbalance. It's the same story in almost all of Zurich/Zug/Hofe region of Schwyz. Now if you want to own in Bern oberland or Thurgau it's a different story :-)

AbFab 29.03.2021 19:27

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
As I have pointed out before, when I came here in 1989 there were 6.7 million people living in Switzerland. Today it's over 8.6 million.

That's an increase of over 1.9 million or 28% - and every one of them needs a roof over their heads...

minimimi 29.03.2021 19:41

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
I can see a couple of reasons for increase:

- expectation of inflation
- expectation of increase in interest rate - makes sense only if one gets a fixed interest rate though
- need/wish for more space and inability to find appropriate rental property (my experience is that 5+ room rental places are very rare, especially if you have extra wishes)
- some people actually made substantial savings last year. There're people spending enormous money on going out...

There are people holding on cash for various reasons. I know people who consider that other financial investment options bring better return and refuse to buy RE. Another reason is if you want to be flexible with moves. Owning property is an extra binding factor for many people - it is a hassle to sell property for many.

ZurichLuck 30.03.2021 20:44

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
thanks for the very enlightening replies tbh. really interesting baout the population increase and also about how every single gemeinde is a really tight sellers market. also maybe prices are going up and up coz as the world goes down the plughole, switzerland is going to be the best place to live and watch it all from the sofa. is there a better country in the world? safe, stable, clean, totally democratic, really lovely, and tbh, theres nowhere in swizterland where youd feel unsafe. at worst, swiztelrnad is like 'a bit drab'. anyway sorry for rambling, this ode to swiztelrand has almost definitnely nothing to do with the practical real world economic reasons why house prices go up:D

btw, i just thought id ask here as well, and thanks for any recommendations ... i want to get the house i live in now appraised. ive been reading the ef threads about selling a house and theyre a mine of info, including 'get your house appraised by a pro' and def not by an agent :D

anyone got any recommendations?

btw ive been on homegate these few days and i love the houses advertised 'price on request'. i wonder what thats about. maybe starting a cheeky auction, not in the spirit of ripping buyers off as such, but coz these houses look AMAZING and for sure someone will be prepared to fight it out. the new one today was a 20 room (or 12 i cant remember tbh, my head cant comprehend more than 10 anyway) villa on the lake! according to old ef threads ive read, it will sell in a flash.

Massa 06.04.2021 10:34

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
“The price of a home has climbed 3.6% in the past year alone. Property prices have been rising faster than incomes for the last 10 years. Property around Zurich has increased 13% in three years.”

https://www.worldradio.ch/news/bites...despite-covid/

curley 06.04.2021 11:25

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
I just had a chat with a friend in Zug who told me house/flat prices have gone through the roof in Zug and are absolutely ridiculous.
I would guess Zurich is no different.

ZurichLuck 06.04.2021 17:06

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
wowzers:eek:

Treverus 06.04.2021 17:59

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
The short answer is „yes, but relatively speaking not as much as other parts of Europe as Switzerland was crazy expensive before and had less space to rise as for example Germany or the BeNeLux“.

axman 06.04.2021 18:10

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
I was browsing through advertisements displayed on the windows of some estate agents in Lenzerheide and if places were just expensive a year ago, they are now ridiculous...

I guess Covid means that people with spare cash started to grab whatever weekend options they could find.

Treverus 06.04.2021 18:52

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by axman (Post 3293241)
I was browsing through advertisements displayed on the windows of some estate agents in Lenzerheide and if places were just expensive a year ago, they are now ridiculous...

I guess Covid means that people with spare cash started to grab whatever weekend options they could find.

That’s a different story from the general housing prices: secondary homes in the mountains exploded in value in times of home office...

hoover1 06.04.2021 21:16

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 3293262)
That’s a different story from the general housing prices: secondary homes in the mountains exploded in value in times of home office...

It's either that or you get divorced with kids running around 60m2 apartment in middle of the city and both do work from home ..so it may come out as better investment even so it doesn't seem like one now ...

Massa 11.04.2021 14:36

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
Accompanied a friend to a flat he wants to buy in Stafa on Friday. The real estate guy told me he recently marketed a house at CHF3.5m nr Horgen and had 150 enquiries. The successful buyers then dropped another million renovating it :eek:

meloncollie 11.04.2021 15:18

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Massa (Post 3295160)
Accompanied a friend to a flat he wants to buy in Stafa on Friday. The real estate guy told me he recently marketed a house at CHF3.5m nr Horgen and had 150 enquiries. The successful buyers then dropped another million renovating it :eek:

Along the lake 5 million is the new 2 million*.

And yes, even at these insane prices buyers should be prepared for the need to drop significant cash into updating whatever you buy.


*Except my house, which we recently had valued and had our suspicions confirmed that it has not appreciated in the 15+ years since we bought it. Lake view notwithstanding.

As always, the value is in the land. Any heap of junk that can be torn down and replaced with a luxury villa or rabbit warren of concrete boxes will be priced in the stratosphere. However if, like my house, you cannot re-build to what today's buyers want, the land price will likely not keep up with the general area rise.

AbFab 11.04.2021 17:04

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
There are two "difficult" house for sale in our road. They are 1960s builds with need of renovation with oil heating and radiators. Land areas 600 and 1000sq meters.

We are 22ish km for Zurich in a small village about 45mins by public transport - bus and train in te Zurioberland.

Priced at CHF1.2million and 2million, with typical low-key posts on Home gate.

Both have received over 100 enquiries each and I see no reason for them not to sell at the asking price. Both need at least ½ million spending on them or demolishing for two or more dwellings on the plots...

Phil_MCR 11.04.2021 20:16

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AbFab (Post 3295193)
There are two "difficult" house for sale in our road. They are 1960s builds with need of renovation with oil heating and radiators. Land areas 600 and 1000sq meters.

We are 22ish km for Zurich in a small village about 45mins by public transport - bus and train in te Zurioberland.

Priced at CHF1.2million and 2million, with typical low-key posts on Home gate.

Both have received over 100 enquiries each and I see no reason for them not to sell at the asking price. Both need at least ½ million spending on them or demolishing for two or more dwellings on the plots...

It sounds like my house. It's livable, but with old heating and dated decor, it maybe needs 300k to refurb to modern standards. I would be glad to collect 1m plus on it. I'm not convinced there are too many buyers out there for such a place, but let's see.

HickvonFrick 11.04.2021 20:28

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil_MCR (Post 3295233)
It sounds like my house. It's livable, but with old heating and dated decor, it maybe needs 300k to refurb to modern standards. I would be glad to collect 1m plus on it. I'm not convinced there are too many buyers out there for such a place, but let's see.

How many rooms?

minimimi 11.04.2021 20:31

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Massa (Post 3295160)
Accompanied a friend to a flat he wants to buy in Stafa on Friday. The real estate guy told me he recently marketed a house at CHF3.5m nr Horgen and had 150 enquiries. The successful buyers then dropped another million renovating it :eek:

Sounds crazy... So we either have a huge impending inflation (are salaries gone catch up?!) or an incredible bubble...

Both are really scaring me...

hans1 11.04.2021 21:46

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
Correct me if I am wrong here.

I also understand there is a law currently in the making protecting the "atmosphere" of the Swiss villages by preventing further densification of built up areas i.e. if you have a piece of land, with for example 400 m3 living space, you may not increase this space beyond that volume, potentially driving up future prices even more.

newtoswitz 11.04.2021 22:07

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hans1 (Post 3295272)
Correct me if I am wrong here.

I also understand there is a law currently in the making protecting the "atmosphere" of the Swiss villages by preventing further densification of built up areas i.e. if you have a piece of land, with for example 400 m3 living space, you may not increase this space beyond that volume, potentially driving up future prices even more.

A law for all Swiss villages seems very unlikely, planning is not usually handled federally except for some very high level rules.

Phil_MCR 11.04.2021 22:35

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hickvonfrick (Post 3295236)
how many rooms?

six.

modernized houses in the same area are being offered at 1.8m and a friend of mine in the same village told me a smaller house recently sold for 1.5m. so it might be worth doing the refurb and selling it.

Gravity 12.04.2021 01:12

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
It always surprises me how people lean towards having a house instead of a flat. TBH, I enjoy living in apartment where I don't have to bother with the house maintenance and I can even close the doors for several months with no worries as my neighbors will keep an eye on it in general during my absence.

Chuff 12.04.2021 06:53

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AbFab (Post 3290902)
As I have pointed out before, when I came here in 1989 there were 6.7 million people living in Switzerland. Today it's over 8.6 million.

That's an increase of over 1.9 million or 28% - and every one of them needs a roof over their heads...

Yeah it's really basic supply and demand for any country like this and Switzerland is well known for high demand for properties. House prices will only go up long-term in any place where demand is high and space is at a premium.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravity (Post 3295311)
It always surprises me how people lean towards having a house instead of a flat. TBH, I enjoy living in apartment where I don't have to bother with the house maintenance and I can even close the doors for several months with no worries as my neighbors will keep an eye on it in general during my absence.

If I didn't mind losing my life savings on a deposit for a good property then I would love to do so and have my a place to call my own. However at the moment there's just no point while my rent is comparatively cheap for living in such a good central location.

Gravity 12.04.2021 07:26

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
Fully agree. Technically I was able to take mortgage as soon as I came to Switzerland but I didn't want to seeing how cheap the rent is comparatively. Even now it's tempting to think about moving to Zug, Schwyz, Lucerne, Zurich due to the tax heaven and more "Swiss" life but the property prices are a cold shower. It looks hardly possible in my lifetime to recover on taxes what I would have to top up to a property in central-eastern Switzerland.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuff (Post 3295315)
If I didn't mind losing my life savings on a deposit for a good property then I would love to do so and have my a place to call my own. However at the moment there's just no point while my rent is comparatively cheap for living in such a good central location.


fatmanfilms 12.04.2021 08:22

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuff (Post 3295315)
Yeah it's really basic supply and demand for any country like this and Switzerland is well known for high demand for properties. House prices will only go up long-term in any place where demand is high and space is at a premium.

That assumes salaries rise as the affordability rules don't change.

AbFab 12.04.2021 09:57

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravity (Post 3295311)
It always surprises me how people lean towards having a house instead of a flat. TBH, I enjoy living in apartment where I don't have to bother with the house maintenance and I can even close the doors for several months with no worries as my neighbors will keep an eye on it in general during my absence.

Here‘s a reason for not living in a flat:
https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-li...-camel-me.html

If you buy a flat you have to budget for maintenance and you have no personal control over the cleaning, repairing and redecorating common areas.

Further to the noise described above from parties, you run the risk of balcony smokers.

Why do you think house neighbours won‘t keep an eye on a property for other neighbours? Ours feeds our cat while we are away...

krlock3 12.04.2021 10:19

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
Yes, I have seen friends who had apartments with such maintenance costs (nebenkosten) in the region of CHF1000 per month - I have rented apartments for less than that.

Meanwhile, for a house, everything you spend is for your own house.

Totally agree with AbFabs assessment. I live in a terraced house, which still runs the risk of noisy neighbours (in my case not often a problem, and the walls are pretty thick), but in my opinion it totally rocks to have an own house over an apartment.

eyebeebe 12.04.2021 11:00

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuff (Post 3295315)
If I didn't mind losing my life savings on a deposit for a good property then I would love to do so and have my a place to call my own. However at the moment there's just no point while my rent is comparatively cheap for living in such a good central location.

You aren‘t losing your life savings, you are changing the asset class they are held in. I can understand why you wouldn‘t want to cash in a securities portfolio to buy a house, but you can pledge them rather than sell them. If the money is just sat in the bank, it‘s losing value anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 3295330)
That assumes salaries rise as the affordability rules don't change.

(Depending on what post-COVID normality is) I think what you will see is if people want to buy more generally they will be constrained by affordability in the prime locations as you say, but will look to live further away from those locations, pushing up the prices on the periphery.

Quote:

Originally Posted by krlock3 (Post 3295368)
Yes, I have seen friends who had apartments with such maintenance costs (nebenkosten) in the region of CHF1000 per month - I have rented apartments for less than that.

Meanwhile, for a house, everything you spend is for your own house.

That‘s about what we pay in Nebenkosten for our top floor Terrassenwohnung with garden (so effectively a semi-detached house on its side). BUT... nearly half of that is paying into the sinking fund and another chunk is for the heating and another for building insurance. Overall I‘d say 80% of what we pay, we would need to pay if we had a freestanding house.

Chuff 12.04.2021 11:08

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eyebeebe (Post 3295383)
You aren‘t losing your life savings, you are changing the asset class they are held in. I can understand why you wouldn‘t want to cash in a securities portfolio to buy a house, but you can pledge them rather than sell them. If the money is just sat in the bank, it‘s losing value anyway.

Most of my money is invested in stocks and I had no idea I could pledge them so I would need to inform myself there, thanks. Still, if I am honest with myself I don't really want that scale of financial commitment at the moment and would rather pay rent and stay flexible and save more money until I have really decided to commit to getting a place. I'm in no rush. :)

Phil_MCR 12.04.2021 13:08

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by krlock3 (Post 3295368)
Yes, I have seen friends who had apartments with such maintenance costs (nebenkosten) in the region of CHF1000 per month - I have rented apartments for less than that.

Meanwhile, for a house, everything you spend is for your own house.

Totally agree with AbFabs assessment. I live in a terraced house, which still runs the risk of noisy neighbours (in my case not often a problem, and the walls are pretty thick), but in my opinion it totally rocks to have an own house over an apartment.

I wouldn't purchase an apartment in Switzerland for this reason alone. I looked at many flats and was frankly horrified at the monthly maintenance costs, which in some cases was equal to renting an apartment.

Maybe I'm not use to Swiss prices yet, but the management of the flats certainly seem quite price insensitive and prone to spending money on ridiculous things that I would never dream to waste money on. (one example was a absurdly expensive earthquake insurance in an areas so geologically safe from earthquakes it was a proposed to be a nuclear waste storage site).

Gravity 12.04.2021 22:30

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
It sounds like it's impossible to happen in Switzerland, but I guess that's what can happen when you rent a room/apartment from the building owner just subletting some part of his house.

Wow, it's also a good lesson to watch out for any sweet language, better assume everything exaggerated :eek:

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbFab (Post 3295357)
Here‘s a reason for not living in a flat:
https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-li...-camel-me.html

If you buy a flat you have to budget for maintenance and you have no personal control over the cleaning, repairing and redecorating common areas.

Further to the noise described above from parties, you run the risk of balcony smokers.

Why do you think house neighbours won‘t keep an eye on a property for other neighbours? Ours feeds our cat while we are away...


yacek 13.04.2021 22:59

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
The "problem" is the change of Raumplanungsgesetz a few years ago.
https://www.are.admin.ch/are/de/home...umsetzung.html
It resulted in de-zoning of surplus building land in more remote places and general direction towards better usage of the existing and new land - i.e. in the existing urban/regional centres more flats per land area are allowed, and few/no new land for low density "urban sprawl" single home zones.
In the spring of 2020 I saw in Vaud sudden run on single family homes - any reasonably priced house in even relatively remote area that lingered for many months suddenly disappeared.

Gravity 14.04.2021 06:37

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
Now I understand why so many houses (mostly shared houses) were built in Lausanne area recently, squeezed here and there, at any corner

Quote:

Originally Posted by yacek (Post 3296168)
The "problem" is the change of Raumplanungsgesetz a few years ago.
https://www.are.admin.ch/are/de/home...umsetzung.html
It resulted in de-zoning of surplus building land in more remote places and general direction towards better usage of the existing and new land - i.e. in the existing urban/regional centres more flats per land area are allowed, and few/no new land for low density "urban sprawl" single home zones.
In the spring of 2020 I saw in Vaud sudden run on single family homes - any reasonably priced house in even relatively remote area that lingered for many months suddenly disappeared.


Phil_MCR 14.04.2021 08:46

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by yacek (Post 3296168)
The "problem" is the change of Raumplanungsgesetz a few years ago.
https://www.are.admin.ch/are/de/home...umsetzung.html
It resulted in de-zoning of surplus building land in more remote places and general direction towards better usage of the existing and new land - i.e. in the existing urban/regional centres more flats per land area are allowed, and few/no new land for low density "urban sprawl" single home zones.
In the spring of 2020 I saw in Vaud sudden run on single family homes - any reasonably priced house in even relatively remote area that lingered for many months suddenly disappeared.

This was also mentioned as a driver for higher prices in the outer Zurich regions too.

litespeed 14.04.2021 08:56

Re: have zurich house prices gone up in the last year?
 
To put it all in perspective though, it's not just a Swiss phenomenon. Australia and New Zealand for example have experienced prices rises of 2% per month.

The main problem is (almost) free money. Ideally an increase in mortgage rates, even if small, would give a reality check to property values, but don't see that happening for the next 5 years or so.


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