Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10.04.2021, 15:20
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Zurich
Posts: 26
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 30 Times in 7 Posts
yoyo has no particular reputation at present
Scammed by the Hauptmieter

Hi,
I just moved to a new flat as a long term Untermieter, I just found out that I'm paying for half of the whole apartment rent, when there are 4 people living there!

What are my legal options in this case? Of course I can give my 3 month notice, or find another dupe to take over the apartment, but I thing the right thing to do would be to make these s**ts pay.

The did the same to one of the other flatmates, and after she confronted them reduced the rent a bit to 1/3 of the total rent.

Would getting a lawyer make sense? Should I try to talk to the owner (seems to be a bank)?
If not, I'm thinking of calling the police on the owner's little THC weed operation, and/or unsanitary restaurant,

Anyone here had to deal with anything similar?
Reply With Quote
This user groans at yoyo for this post:
  #2  
Old 10.04.2021, 15:22
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Zurich
Posts: 26
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 30 Times in 7 Posts
yoyo has no particular reputation at present
Re: Scammed by the Hauptmieter

To be clear, there are 4 bedrooms, and mine is the smallest. The price I'm paying is in the upper part of the normal range for the area.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10.04.2021, 15:30
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 13,251
Groaned at 216 Times in 191 Posts
Thanked 19,326 Times in 7,865 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Scammed by the Hauptmieter

You signed a contract for a home and you were happy with the price, presumably, when you signed.

Nope. No scam. Nice profit for the main tenant. Is there any specific reason why you need to know how much rent the main tenant pays? Nor why he/she shouldn't sublet their home for a profit
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
This user groans at NotAllThere for this post:
  #4  
Old 10.04.2021, 15:32
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 1,914
Groaned at 257 Times in 189 Posts
Thanked 2,108 Times in 1,040 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Scammed by the Hauptmieter

I feel your frustration- but there is nothing illegal in what they did. You did not ask the questions- and you agreed to the terms and price they stated. You can discuss this with them, and say you'd like to stay but feel the rent needs to be adjusted. And they can agree, or not ...Bonne chance.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank JackieH for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 10.04.2021, 15:52
evop's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Zürich
Posts: 216
Groaned at 5 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 286 Times in 130 Posts
evop has earned the respect of manyevop has earned the respect of manyevop has earned the respect of many
Re: Scammed by the Hauptmieter

I would recommend going with these questions to ZH Mietverband. Just become a member and get a professional legal advise, it is not expensive.

https://www.mieterverband.ch/mv/miet...am-wohnen.html

About the price: there may be something illegal going on, but discovering it would require to see certain papers (your sub-rental contract, the main rental contract, the regulations for your house - for example, if the WG in located in any sort of price regulated property).

Also, a basic recommendation would be to approach this issue with a cold head. Getting rid of the Hauptmieter (that is what I assume you want to achieve by reporting him to authorities) may or may not be a good idea in your situation, and it will certainly be a stressful journey, so one shall be prepared before going down this road.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank evop for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 10.04.2021, 16:11
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 3,740
Groaned at 75 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 4,521 Times in 2,066 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Scammed by the Hauptmieter

According to the law a sub-tenant has the same rights as the main tenant.

https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2...8/chap_3/lvl_E

So you can complain about unfair rent within 30 days of taking on the let.

Also the landlord can object to unfair rent:

https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2...8/chap_1/lvl_K

Since you have the same rights and can make the landlord's life difficult they have some incentive to sort this out.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank newtoswitz for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 10.04.2021, 16:11
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: LaCote
Posts: 1,059
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,899 Times in 725 Posts
Sigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Scammed by the Hauptmieter

Is the second half of the rent devided by the other three?

"How high can the sub-rent be?
In principle, the main tenant may not make any profit from the sublet. The amount of the sublease is usually calculated based on the proportion of living space used. Costs for electricity, water or fees can also be charged proportionally. In the case of a furnished apartment, the surcharge may not exceed 20 percent. If the sub-rent is higher, the landlord can prohibit his main tenant from sub-letting. For information: In a federal court ruling, surcharges of 30 percent were classified as improper."

https://www.comparis.ch/immobilien/r...ertrag-schweiz
Reply With Quote
The following 13 users would like to thank Sigh for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 10.04.2021, 16:27
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Zurich
Posts: 26
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 30 Times in 7 Posts
yoyo has no particular reputation at present
Re: Scammed by the Hauptmieter

Thanks for answers guys.

I will talk to the Mieterverband and keep a cool head.

One of the main tenants is also a flatmate, and the other main tenant used to live in the room that I live in now, and used to pay 10% of the rent for it (according to the other flatmate who paid too much). As a flatmate, he's pretty terrible as well, which is surprising. You would expect him to be extra nice if he's milking me and wants me to stay there for long.

The outcome that I'm hoping for is get my money back and find another place.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank yoyo for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 10.04.2021, 16:37
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 1,914
Groaned at 257 Times in 189 Posts
Thanked 2,108 Times in 1,040 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Scammed by the Hauptmieter

Good luck and come back to tell us of the outcome.

Did you ever sign a contract?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10.04.2021, 16:42
kri's Avatar
kri kri is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,833
Groaned at 18 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 1,568 Times in 812 Posts
kri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Scammed by the Hauptmieter

Quote:
View Post
You signed a contract for a home and you were happy with the price, presumably, when you signed.

Nope. No scam. Nice profit for the main tenant. Is there any specific reason why you need to know how much rent the main tenant pays? Nor why he/she shouldn't sublet their home for a profit
You are meant to attach the original rental contract to a sublet. Also one of the conditions of sublet is that the contract owner does not make a big profit. So a few things went amiss here....

OP - do you have the sublet authorization from the apartment owner? If not the sublet may not be legal.

Mietverband is the way to go!

K
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank kri for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 10.04.2021, 16:46
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 343
Groaned at 21 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 404 Times in 187 Posts
Sinking has earned the respect of manySinking has earned the respect of manySinking has earned the respect of many
Re: Scammed by the Hauptmieter

Quote:
View Post
You are meant to attach the original rental contract to a sublet. Also one of the conditions of sublet is that the contract owner does not make a big profit. So a few things went amiss here....

OP - do you have the sublet authorization from the apartment owner? If not the sublet may not be legal.

Mietverband is the way to go!

K
One thing I would do is find out if the owner KNOWS that the guy is subletting and for what price!
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Sinking for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 10.04.2021, 16:59
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Zurich
Posts: 26
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 30 Times in 7 Posts
yoyo has no particular reputation at present
Re: Scammed by the Hauptmieter

All I have is a sublet contract.
The other flatmate who paid too much sent me photos of the contract for the apartment.

I will talk to MV on Monday, and then probably to the owning company.

I'll keep you posted. Thanks for the advice!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10.04.2021, 17:11
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Canton Fribourg
Posts: 8
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 19 Times in 6 Posts
Poutel is considered knowledgeablePoutel is considered knowledgeablePoutel is considered knowledgeable
Re: Scammed by the Hauptmieter

Quote:
View Post
If not, I'm thinking of calling the police on the owner's little THC weed operation, and/or unsanitary restaurant,

If your conscience tells you to report a crime just do it. Using this as a blackmail material is unlikely to solve any of your issues.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Poutel for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 10.04.2021, 17:31
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Zurich
Posts: 26
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 30 Times in 7 Posts
yoyo has no particular reputation at present
Re: Scammed by the Hauptmieter

You are right, that's a little hot-headed.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10.04.2021, 17:34
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 343
Groaned at 21 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 404 Times in 187 Posts
Sinking has earned the respect of manySinking has earned the respect of manySinking has earned the respect of many
Re: Scammed by the Hauptmieter

Quote:
View Post
One thing I would do is find out if the owner KNOWS that the guy is subletting and for what price!
Imagine how fun it would be if the owner had no idea ...
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Sinking for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 10.04.2021, 17:35
kri's Avatar
kri kri is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,833
Groaned at 18 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 1,568 Times in 812 Posts
kri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Scammed by the Hauptmieter

Quote:
View Post
Imagine how fun it would be if the owner had no idea ...
Yeah it would be great, everyone evicted and all
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank kri for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 10.04.2021, 17:53
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Zurich
Posts: 26
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 30 Times in 7 Posts
yoyo has no particular reputation at present
Re: Scammed by the Hauptmieter

Quote:
View Post
According to the law a sub-tenant has the same rights as the main tenant.

https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2...8/chap_3/lvl_E

So you can complain about unfair rent within 30 days of taking on the let.
Thanks newtowitz!
The 30 days mark will be in a couple of days. Is it "business days" or including weekends and holidays? Who should I complain to and how? (i.e. do I need to send an express official letter?)
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10.04.2021, 17:57
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Zurich
Posts: 26
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 30 Times in 7 Posts
yoyo has no particular reputation at present
Re: Scammed by the Hauptmieter

Quote:
View Post
Imagine how fun it would be if the owner had no idea ...
The owner is reportedly a bank, and the apartment contract is signed with a real estate management company. I would be very surprised if they were informed of the details of my sublet contract.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank yoyo for this useful post:
This user groans at yoyo for this post:
  #19  
Old 10.04.2021, 20:29
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Albisrieden
Posts: 5,112
Groaned at 122 Times in 80 Posts
Thanked 7,768 Times in 2,879 Posts
nickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Scammed by the Hauptmieter

From what you’ve said, OP it does not sound like an altogether pleasant place to live - do you really want to continue living there if you don’t like your co-residents?

Use the MV as suggested to explore any legal routes for getting any of your money back. At the same time start looking for a new place to live.

Cheers,
Nick
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank nickatbasel for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 10.04.2021, 21:31
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 7,783
Groaned at 89 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 11,923 Times in 4,840 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Scammed by the Hauptmieter

Find out what the MV says, asap.

So you know exactly what it is that you're going to fight for, calculate what the worst case is. Let's say: you lived there for n months in total, and each month and you pay y Francs when you should have paid y-z Francs. So your over-charge or loss is y-z x n, and not more than that.

It can be worth it to stand up for your rights, but not worth destroying your time, energy and soul to do so. Work out what it is worth to you. No matter how angry you are, take only the kind of steps which will bring you closer to what you want. Do nothing merely for vengance' sake.

Everything you want to complain about (and if the MV advises you to do so), put it in writing, in a registered letter to your landlord. (Landlord in this context is the main tenant or Hauptmieter with whom you have the rental contract.) A registered letter is the proper, formal way, in Switzerland. Keep a copy of the letter, a photo of the envelope and a scan the receipt you get from the post office which reflects the date you send the register the letter. This receipt is proof that you sent the letter, but the quality of that print-out is often poor so that it fades with time, hence my advice to scan it.

For a letter to be properly within any notice period, it must arrive by mail on the last day, i.e. if the new period starts on the 15th, your letter must arrive by mail on the 14th, latest, as long as the 14th is a working day. If the new period starts on a weekend or a public holiday, then the letter must arrive by mail on the last working day before that weekend or public holiday.

Quote:
View Post
From what you’ve said, OP it does not sound like an altogether pleasant place to live - do you really want to continue living there if you don’t like your co-residents?

Use the MV as suggested to explore any legal routes for getting any of your money back. At the same time start looking for a new place to live.

Cheers,
Nick
This, exactly. Look for a new place, asap.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Got scammed of CHF300. What to do? iu1nguoi Daily life 7 24.02.2020 14:34
Terrible hauptmieter which thinks I owe him Curtiss Housing in general 0 21.10.2019 15:29
Have I been scammed ? Helena Paris Complaints corner 15 15.10.2014 16:14
Am I being scammed ? BrokenWings88 General off-topic 31 13.02.2013 21:28
I think I am being scammed by Cablecom Gaggiol0 TV/internet/telephone 5 26.06.2009 20:36


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0