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Old 25.05.2021, 22:03
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What shall I do? [bidding process]

Good evening dear friends,

can you please read the story below and give me suggestions, many thanks!

Since a few weeks ago, I participated a bidding process for a house. It's written very clearly in the sales documents that the "suggested price" is just an estimation. According to the market demand and popularity, the actual sale's price can be lower and can be also higher. We had visited the house two times. They were always many groups of potential buyers at the same time.
In the broker's Email to all the potential buyers for offers, he has clearly written that, this will be very simple process. He set the deadline and the requirements. Anyone who gave the highest offer can buy the house. And the Offer should be "verbindlich" with financial certificate.

At the end we gave a bit less than the suggested price, about 5% lower, that's what we are willing to pay for this house.

Today I received an Email from the broker. This Email is astonishing: I can understand from the email that my offer is the highest. But I have to pay 10% more than the suggested price, instead of my offer, which is 5% lower. They want now to change their regulation of selling the house: at a fix-price, 10% more than the suggested bidding price. His reason: Some Authority is the seller. They want more, otherwise they will be difficult.(do you believe this?I can't)

If they would want a minimum amount, shouldn't they have specified this at the beginning of the bidding process? And they wrote the opposite: can be also lower.
Is that possible t the "Verbindliche Angebote" is only valid on the buyers side? On the broker and seller's side it's not valid? They can change the regulations after they played the bidding process? Is that my time and effort can be treated like nothing? Played?

Maybe they want more from foreigners? I am feeling sad and helpless.

Looking forward for your suggestions, and thanks beforehand.
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  #2  
Old 26.05.2021, 10:13
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Re: What shall I do?

It looks like the seller tried to be greedy and it didn't work.

If you, and all the other potential buyers, didn't think the house was worth as much as the greedy seller wants for it then it probably isn't.
More importantly, the bank won't think so either so if you want a mortgage on it, you may struggle.
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Old 26.05.2021, 10:18
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Re: What shall I do?

Tell them to get lost!
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Old 26.05.2021, 10:19
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Re: What shall I do?

In Aussie terms 'they are trying it on'....


Up to you whether you back out or compromise...



My friends were buying a house, the agent kept negotiating - turns out the vendor (seller) was the next door neighbour and once they go to know him, they discovered that he would have settled for much less...it was the 'agent' that was playing them (higher selling price = higher commission)....



based on that experience, are you using a lawyer ? Ask them to write directly to the vendor (seller) to clarify the terms - if you push the terms back at them (what was advertised) then they may have to compromise.


It sounds like maybe the broker is in trouble - maybe he only gets a commission if it sells above the agreed amount....
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Old 26.05.2021, 10:40
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Re: What shall I do?

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Today I received an Email from the broker. This Email is astonishing: I can understand from the email that my offer is the highest. But I have to pay 10% more than the suggested price, instead of my offer, which is 5% lower. They want now to change their regulation of selling the house: at a fix-price, 10% more than the suggested bidding price. His reason: Some Authority is the seller. They want more, otherwise they will be difficult.(do you believe this?I can't)

I am feeling sad and helpless.
Surprisingly, you're in a great bargaining position. It seems the bidding process was a failure (from the seller's and broker's perspective). So, the broker is trying now to get more money after the bid ended. Well, this is bargaining and anything is possible. Just stick to your position. You have the money and they don't, you should feel empowered instead of helpless.

About being difficult in the future, well......asking 10% is already being difficult today. And, this is a huge red flag. The story about authorities being difficult is irrelevant. Doesn't matter if true or not. If you concede the 10% today, there's nothing that ensures that no more difficulties will arise in the future. Some business people, and bullies, are like this. Once they find a willing cow they milk it until dry.

I'd say this is a dealbreaker because the trust is lost. Only way to regain trust is to stick to the original deal conditions. Otherwise, once you agree to anything, the list of difficulties can be infinite.
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Old 26.05.2021, 10:49
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Re: What shall I do? [bidding process]

Quote:
Is that possible t the "Verbindliche Angebote" is only valid on the buyers side?
Nothing is verbindlich without notarization, neither for buyer nor seller, that's the law.

At most what they can charge you is for factual costs that your misbehavior costed them, so called 'culpa in contrahendo' legal principle in precontractual negotiations. E.g. if you tell them to go engage notary to start the sale process and draft contact, but then change your mind and the notary bills them for wasted time - they can pass that bill to you regardless whether or not you wrote "verbindlich" on your offer.

Quote:
They can change the regulations after they played the bidding process? Is that my time and effort can be treated like nothing?
Your time and effort are worth nothing as far as legal system is concerned. But if you suffered some actual provable excessive financial costs (did you?) as a result of them changing the rules on the go, you may recover them through court on account of that culpa in contrahendo principle - it goes both ways. For example if the agreement were that you'd engage and pay the notary yourself (rare but possible) then they'd have to reimburse you

Last edited by spark; 26.05.2021 at 11:07.
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Old 26.05.2021, 10:54
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Re: What shall I do? [bidding process]

It depends on how much you want the house. I would just say that per the various agreements, the offer was a binding one and that you expect to deal with people who are trustworthy and keep their word.
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Old 26.05.2021, 12:25
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This is probably the fact. I can't do much. Eventhough it's difficult to accept.
Somehow feeling got played.


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Nothing is verbindlich without notarization, neither for buyer nor seller, that's the law.

At most what they can charge you is for factual costs that your misbehavior costed them, so called 'culpa in contrahendo' legal principle in precontractual negotiations. E.g. if you tell them to go engage notary to start the sale process and draft contact, but then change your mind and the notary bills them for wasted time - they can pass that bill to you regardless whether or not you wrote "verbindlich" on your offer.

Your time and effort are worth nothing as far as legal system is concerned. But if you suffered some actual provable excessive financial costs (did you?) as a result of them changing the rules on the go, you may recover them through court on account of that culpa in contrahendo principle - it goes both ways. For example if the agreement were that you'd engage and pay the notary yourself (rare but possible) then they'd have to reimburse you
Thanks everyone,

Last edited by roegner; 26.05.2021 at 12:36. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
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Old 26.05.2021, 19:41
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Re: What shall I do? [bidding process]

Reminds me of those e-bay no reserve items that you win for a cheap price then the seller backs out saying there's no way they're selling at that price.
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Old 26.05.2021, 20:11
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Re: What shall I do? [bidding process]

This issue has changed my beliefs. Here in Switzerland only money talks.

Buying a house is not buying a toy. It's connecting to your life, future plans.......everything......

And here, it can be so unserious that they can play your heart.
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Old 26.05.2021, 22:02
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Re: What shall I do? [bidding process]

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We had visited the house two times. They were always many groups of potential buyers at the same time.

Feeling for you. At the same time, this part makes me wonder:
(1) Did the broker plant pretend-buyers?
(2) If not, why did the people bid lower? What do they know that you don't?
(3) Are you the only one bidder being told what you were told now?
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Old 26.05.2021, 22:14
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Re: What shall I do?

Since I have no connection with other people who were viewing the house. I have no idea about your questions myself. What I know is, the formal email asking for an formal offer, was sent to " all potential buyers ".

They want to milk as much as possible. But I will stick to my position.


QUOTE=Axa;3310318]Surprisingly, you're in a great bargaining position. It seems the bidding process was a failure (from the seller's and broker's perspective). So, the broker is trying now to get more money after the bid ended. Well, this is bargaining and anything is possible. Just stick to your position. You have the money and they don't, you should feel empowered instead of helpless.

About being difficult in the future, well......asking 10% is already being difficult today. And, this is a huge red flag. The story about authorities being difficult is irrelevant. Doesn't matter if true or not. If you concede the 10% today, there's nothing that ensures that no more difficulties will arise in the future. Some business people, and bullies, are like this. Once they find a willing cow they milk it until dry.

I'd say this is a dealbreaker because the trust is lost. Only way to regain trust is to stick to the original deal conditions. Otherwise, once you agree to anything, the list of difficulties can be infinite.[/QUOTE]
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Old 26.05.2021, 22:49
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Re: What shall I do? [bidding process]

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Buying a house is not buying a toy. It's connecting to your life, future plans.......everything......

And here, it can be so unserious that they can play your heart.

Livii, this little game has shown that there is likely a problem with the house... and there definitely is a problem with the sellers/agent.

Were it me, I'd walk away. When one party starts playing games in a deal, that is only the beginning.

First rule of buying in Switzerland - you are swimming in shark-filled waters. No one is looking out for your interest other than you.

Sure, buying a house is indeed not buying a toy. But at this stage, do not think of a house as 'a connection to your life, future plans, everything.'

To protect yourself, do not invest emotional meaning into a house, do not lose your heart to a property until the Notary afixes the seal to the signed sales contract and you have keys in hand. Always be ready to walk away at the first sign of funny business.

When you make an offer, stick to it. Do not let emotion - especially the frenzy of bidding rounds - sway you from your planned offer strategy.

There will be other houses - and hopefully a more honest/upfront/trustworthy agent/seller.

Good luck!
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Old 26.05.2021, 23:06
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Re: What shall I do? [bidding process]

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Good evening dear friends,

Since a few weeks ago, I participated a bidding process for a house. It's written very clearly in the sales documents that the "suggested price" is just an estimation. According to the market demand and popularity, the actual sale's price can be lower and can be also higher. We had visited the house two times. They were always many groups of potential buyers at the same time.
In the broker's Email to all the potential buyers for offers, he has clearly written that, this will be very simple process. He set the deadline and the requirements. Anyone who gave the highest offer can buy the house. And the Offer should be "verbindlich" with financial certificate.

....

Today I received an Email from the broker. This Email is astonishing: I can understand from the email that my offer is the highest. But I have to pay 10% more than the suggested price, instead of my offer, which is 5% lower. They want now to change their regulation of selling the house: at a fix-price, 10% more than the suggested bidding price. His reason: Some Authority is the seller..

Howdy Livii - what you describe is a "deja vu". We had the same experience with trying to buy a house through a Swiss 'reputed' (country-wide) real state agent company. I would bet probably is the same one...

We walked away. And did not look back. A month later, we found a place that we made ours, through an honest broker. It was a positive experience, instead of a 'stress / competitive / being taken for a ride' one.

I have followed up (out of sheer curiosity) with the first 'crook agent company', and you can see on the advertisings that they keep on replicating the model.... as it goes in English "one born every day".
Hope it is not you,

Cheers
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Old 26.05.2021, 23:30
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Re: What shall I do?

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Since I have no connection with other people who were viewing the house. I have no idea about your questions myself. What I know is, the formal email asking for an formal offer, was sent to " all potential buyers ".

So basically they are reopening the bidding. This means they are going back on their word. Going by the experience and wisdom in the other replies, that's not good. Still, you could just repeat your bid at the same level. Add a deadline of your own. And if they want to talk after all, dare them to reveal that mysterious authority for a start.


Per the last comment, I feel blessed that we did not experience any of this during our relatively recent buying. Like Izzt89 said, there have to be better brokers around. Wish you the best.
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Old 26.05.2021, 23:41
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Re: What shall I do? [bidding process]

dear all,
Appreciated, many thanks!
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