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Old 08.06.2021, 23:29
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Re: Copies of lost apartment key

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This is right up there in the top 10 of helpful gems.

Almost as useful as - where do you last remember putting them?
I bought my mam a device that helps you locate them, she has now done the same for my brother. Because I am extremely prone to losing things (I have been known to irretrievably misplace a piece of paper within less than a minute of having been handed it), I have trained myself to put my keys in one of two possible places in our apartment. They cannot go anywhere else EVER, otherwise I won't find them again. I never carry "just the key", it is always in use with a key chain that has one of those Keyfinder doodahs on it. You wouldn't carry a wad of hundred franc notes loose in your back pocket, why do it with a key that costs that amount to replace? Maybe it's an attitude thing: either you understand the importance of looking after certain items (your keys, your phone, your health) or you have to be prepared to pay the price.

The point is: I really don't want uncontrolled access methods to my home floating about in the universe. So if you absolutely must flaunt restrictions that are there to protect your safety and that of others, at least have the discipline to keep a detailed record of who has the keys and attach "rehoming" tags to the keys of anyone liable to lose them. I guess the smart move would be to have copies made right at the start, rather than when one of the originals goes missing. Your landlord will definitely notice a number mismatch of a copy and then you may end up with a whole new set of problems. Ensure that all copies are returned to you and destroyed when you move out. And remember: You may be best mates / deeply in love right now but things can change very quickly. More than one friend of mine had to cough up for a missing key following an unhappy breakup.
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  #22  
Old 09.06.2021, 08:49
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Re: Copies of lost apartment key

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You wouldn't carry a wad of hundred franc notes loose in your back pocket.
I certainly do.

Tom
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  #23  
Old 10.06.2021, 15:30
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Re: Copies of lost apartment key

If the key is a 'normal' key you should be able to get this cut and there probably wouldnt be an issue

If its a dotted key, there is likely to be a problem. Firstly having it cut may not be easy as some have discussed, many locksmiths cant/wont. But it will also be numbered. This may be in your contract. So you would also need to have the serial number copied, which is extremely unlikely any one will do this.

The rest is down to your building and agency. They may just charge to change your locks, perhaps 700 to 1000. But if they decide to change the buildings locks, well its those figures times the number of flats. But I think thats unlikely to be honest.

To be on the safe side I would consider where you lost it. Perhaps you lost the key in Australia and it fell over board while on a boat...I hope you didnt lose it close to home and unsure where it went.
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Old 10.06.2021, 16:22
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Re: Copies of lost apartment key

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I'd suggest that this is not a patent issue we're talking about here .. It's an agreement between manufacturers and service providers..

IE Kaba will supply official blank keys to mister minit on the understanding that they will only make copies for authorised persons. Up to the key shop if they honour that or just take the 30chf and make a copy anyways.

A patent might prevent a generic key-blank maker from making those blanks and selling them to mister minit as kaba .. But if that has expired there's no issue as long as they are not called kaba, just work the same.

A bit like how now we can buy a load of nesspresso compatible capsules in COOP.
I think something along these lines.

They may also have an exclusive agreement with the likes of Mister Minit to not stock "Kaba-compatible" keys, or at least to offer them some other attractive deals if they agree to such a deal. And with KABA having such a leading position on the Swiss market, nobody really wants to be black listed by them.

Which doesn't mean to say that grandpa Reto who has a key cutting machine in his basement won't cut you a copy if you ask him nicely. And that he won't have to fear the police kicking in his door even if somebody does report him.
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Old 10.06.2021, 18:59
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Re: Copies of lost apartment key

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I certainly do.

Tom
Same.
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However likely to have expired years ago..... Generally after 20 years. Look at drugs, after 20 years anyone can make a generic.
This is nothing to do with law, an owner of a patient has to defend their patient themselves.

The Kaba experT patent expired in 2020
The Kaba 20 Patent expires in 2033
Many others are out of patent so clearly can be copied without issue.
Disney, Marvel, etc would have seen their copyrights lapse long ago if IP rights duration weren't extended again and again. US commercial interests are the reason for that.

Money makes the world go round.
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  #26  
Old 10.06.2021, 20:34
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Re: Copies of lost apartment key

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If you do need to replace, remember that you are only liable for the remainder portion of the life of the keys and locks, which is 30 years.

.
I thought you were kidding. But you're not. But it's 20 years actually.

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I bought my mam a device that helps you locate them, she has now done the same for my brother. Because I am extremely prone to losing things (I have been known to irretrievably misplace a piece of paper within less than a minute of having been handed it), I have trained myself to put my keys in one of two possible places in our apartment. They cannot go anywhere else EVER, otherwise I won't find them again. I never carry "just the key", it is always in use with a key chain that has one of those Keyfinder doodahs on it. You wouldn't carry a wad of hundred franc notes loose in your back pocket, why do it with a key that costs that amount to replace? Maybe it's an attitude thing: either you understand the importance of looking after certain items (your keys, your phone, your health) or you have to be prepared to pay the price.

The point is: I really don't want uncontrolled access methods to my home floating about in the universe. So if you absolutely must flaunt restrictions that are there to protect your safety and that of others, at least have the discipline to keep a detailed record of who has the keys and attach "rehoming" tags to the keys of anyone liable to lose them. I guess the smart move would be to have copies made right at the start, rather than when one of the originals goes missing. Your landlord will definitely notice a number mismatch of a copy and then you may end up with a whole new set of problems. Ensure that all copies are returned to you and destroyed when you move out. And remember: You may be best mates / deeply in love right now but things can change very quickly. More than one friend of mine had to cough up for a missing key following an unhappy breakup.
What's the difference?? If I move into an new flat and some stranger raids it or visits me uninvited at ungodly hours it makes absolutely no difference if they found an original key or a copy. g
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  #27  
Old 10.06.2021, 21:00
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Re: Copies of lost apartment key

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Same.

Disney, Marvel, etc would have seen their copyrights lapse long ago if IP rights duration weren't extended again and again. US commercial interests are the reason for that.

Money makes the world go round.
Copyrights & patients have a different lifespan

Kodak invented the digital camera in 1975, their patents expired in 2007 hence everybody is making digital cameras & Kodak is not getting any royalties.
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