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Old 19.06.2021, 22:48
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Sublease without initial handover protocol

After coming in Switzerland I rented a furbished apartment on Airbnb and after few weeks I agreed to sign a Mietvertrag. It contained the inventory list but we didn't sign a Mängelrüge as I didn't know I needed one and the main tenant didn't mentioned anything.

The apartment is older, the main tenant made changes, put nails for pictures on the walls, had small scratches on different parts, the apartment has issues as seems it was not renovated for many years, has quite old/used stuff stored in to it. The cleaning was ok but not great since was running on AirBnB. Now, I will give it back and I spent many hours and it's cleaner then I took it over but I am concerned the main leaser will pretend I should fix/pay additional amounts to fix issues that were there before I arrived so he can give it back with as much of the above problems solved.

- I found on an older post https://www.englishforum.ch/housing-...-sublease.html where a response mentions: 'According to the Mieterverband (swiss tenant association) current law (in force since 1990) says that by default it is assumed that any defect existed already when you moved in, and that the landlord must prove the contrary. Without a list of defects ("Mängelliste") this seems quite difficult. As a consequence not having a defect list ("Mängelliste") is good for the renter.'

Q: So I don't have to prove I didn't put nails in the walls, old scratches and old stuff in the apartment? Also cannot clean perfectly because of his furniture and stuff. It is fine to clean as much is possible without moving big furniture around (definitely cleaner than when I arrived from AirBnB)?

Q: If he is unreasonable can I use the argument that since I took it over directly from AirBnB where he had many guests he cannot put whatever there is in the apartment on me?

Q: We should sign a check-out protocol or it's enough that we agreed for the handover time for the apartment? Where a check-out form can be downloaded from?
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Old 20.06.2021, 10:37
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Re: Sublease without initial handover protocol

Did you take any photos before you moved in? As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

It sounds as if there was more attention paid to the inventory list than the condition of the apartment at the time you moved in. How long have you been there?

How much of a deposit did you pay and did you pay it directly to the main tenant rather than set up a rental deposit surety account ?

You can download the handover form from various sites included Homegate (in English). However, without a moving in checklist, the focus should be on the inventory and that the list is complete and you haven't broken anything on the list.
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Old 20.06.2021, 11:55
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Re: Sublease without initial handover protocol

I stayed one year. Yes, the focus was the inventory list. The deposit was small and was in a blocked account.

What I am concerned is that the main renter didn't do a proper handin document himself in addition to the nails he put in the walls etc, the home owner might ask him to fix all the things and he might try to do the same with me. So all the problems of a long not renovated apartment, with changes and used to AirBnB get on me.

The older post seems to say that without a list, he needs to prove I did anything he wants to claim. It is true? The link they reference cannot be found anymore.

And I arrived in the apartment from AirBnB like tens before me. Isn't this not enough to imply that some small scratches etc were caused by this activity of the main renter?

Will it help if the owner didn't renovated the apartment for ten years or so? I saw that for walls that is the expected time to be renovated.
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Old 20.06.2021, 14:41
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Re: Sublease without initial handover protocol

The only thing you know for sure, if I have understood your posts corrently, is that you didn't cause the holes. If that's the case, I wouldn't speculate about who did - it could be any past tenant. I would avoid saying "x is responsible" or something akin to that. All you know for sure is you aren't, and these things predate you living there.


If you happen to have some spare filler to hand, you could easily patch some of the holes, if it'd lessen your worries. I do this if they annoy me, even if I didn't create them, so long as I can use materials I already have, and the time investment is minimal.


Can you explain in more detail why you cannot clean the flat thoroughly? Just for context, irrespective of how I found it, I think I would be inclined to do a thorough clean, just for my own peace of mind. It seems to be the easiest solution to me in your situation, rather than arguing over degrees of cleanliness. Of course, it's a different matter if you're obstructed from cleaning by something you cannot easily move out of the way.


What is scratched? Have you paid anything additional for the furniture each month? How did you handle paying for the water and electricity - was it all included in a lump monthly sum, or did you put it all under your name (I'm just curious about this, so feel free to ignore it)?
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Old 20.06.2021, 15:21
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Re: Sublease without initial handover protocol

I cleaned as good I could, maximum cleaneass I could with dedicated solutions I bought from supermarket but the stuff of the main renter only partially since some are kind of deposit for his stuff.

Anyway, simplifying the post I am most interested in what possible claims can main renter pass to me regarding small defects like anything on the walls if we didn't do the initial defect assessment. I agree it would have better to have signed it but if it doesn't exist is not like that I signed that everything is brand new and in perfect condition. I didn't.

In post https://www.englishforum.ch/housing-...-sublease.html it's a response that is not assumed. So this would mean that last refurbishment date, the fact that he AirBnB the flat start to factor in on any claims, right?
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Old 20.06.2021, 15:40
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Re: Sublease without initial handover protocol

If you're giving it back to the main leaser, isn't it fairly safe to assume they will just do the same again and put it on AirBnB or similar? In which case they probably don't care all that much as long as it's generally OK.

Or are they also terminating their main lease, in which case they have to deal with the landlord and Swiss standard handover and therefore may want to dump the cleaning work on you...

The thing is that if they want to blame you for this then they have to produce evidence, as noted if there was no original handover report then they are on shaky ground with that. If you know this, and you don't need the deposit back urgently, you have plenty of scope to ignore their demands or negotiate what you think is reasonable.

It may all come to nothing so maybe don't over-analyse once you've done the best you can.
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Old 21.06.2021, 19:39
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Re: Sublease without initial handover protocol

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Anyway, simplifying the post I am most interested in what possible claims can main renter pass to me regarding small defects like anything on the walls if we didn't do the initial defect assessment.
None, because he can't prove it's your doing, nonetheless you should be fair and pay what is indeed yours to pay. You may want to make sure that the protocol, if there's one this time, explicitly mentions which damages are yours to pay, and strike through any general clause. There's no obligation to sign anything, only sign what you agree with (this applies in general, including courts and police), your signature turns a claim into fact.

Here's the new page I linked in the other thread, the link "Merkblatt - Auszug ..." is of particular relevance.

Last edited by Urs Max; 21.06.2021 at 19:51.
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