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Old 10.07.2021, 23:21
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leaving apartment after 12 years - what should I pay for?

I have been in my apartment for around 12 years now. During that time I have only ever had to call the administrator to remove a wasps nests and a minor repair in the kitchen.

After giving notice I received a bewildering 3 page list of the things they want me to do before leaving.

The stand out one was to have the washer, dryer and dishwasher professionally serviced. As these are 12 years older than when I moved in I consider they probably have exceeded their lifespan. They are all in perfect working order.

In general should I pay to service appliances ? Never mind 12 year old ones. They have never been serviced all the time I have been here which I would have thought they would have done if they are so concerned about them ?
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Old 10.07.2021, 23:37
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Re: leaving apartment after 12 years - what should I pay for?

Do as they ask for, let a mechanic of the companys service the machnies.
Normally they clean/replace filters, throw a cleaning tablett in to the machine, to run
a cleaning programm, thats all.
Nothing to be afraid of.

Last edited by blackbird; 10.07.2021 at 23:54.
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Old 10.07.2021, 23:49
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Re: leaving apartment after 12 years - what should I pay for?

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Do as they ask for, let a mechanic of the companys service the machnies.
Normally the clean/replace filters, throw a cleaning tablett in to run
a cleaning programm, thats all.
Nothing to be afraid of.
I'm in a similar position to the OP so I'm interested. Is the resident expected to pay for this, or is it billed to the owner/landlord? Thanks.
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Old 10.07.2021, 23:58
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Re: leaving apartment after 12 years - what should I pay for?

the report of the mechanic will determine the status of the machines,
if they are worth to be used in the forseeable future or if the must be replaced.
Could be, that there are no more replacement parts available.
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Old 11.07.2021, 00:07
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Re: leaving apartment after 12 years - what should I pay for?

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the report of the mechanic will determine the status of the machines,
if they are worth to be used in the forseeable future or if the must be replaced.
Could be, that there are no more replacement parts available.
The question was: who pays for the service and report?
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Old 11.07.2021, 00:51
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Re: leaving apartment after 12 years - what should I pay for?

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After giving notice I received a bewildering 3 page list of the things they want me to do before leaving.

The stand out one was to have the washer, dryer and dishwasher professionally serviced.
Point to https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2...377/de#art_267 and tell them to f оff. They have to pay 100% for that

By that law you only owe them actual damages to the apartment and even then only those that exceed ordinary wear & tear. For a start they must be able to prove these damages, such as by comparing protocols signed by you before/after the move. If you have liability insurance you can get them to check out and pay off landlord's damage claims, insurances also usually cover any legal costs involved if there's a dispute.

The law applies no matter what your contract says. Landlords often knowingly put various shady unenforceable bullshit into it like what you're going thru in the hopes of ripping off some more clueless tenants.

Last edited by kerneltrick; 11.07.2021 at 01:10.
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Old 11.07.2021, 08:01
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Re: leaving apartment after 12 years - what should I pay for?

Totally in agreement with the last post; but in terms of action, the less stressful alternative may be to send on the letter to your insurance and tell the landlord you disagree with demands but but have informed your insurance. Then it is a matter for these two parties to sort it out.
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Old 11.07.2021, 08:47
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Re: leaving apartment after 12 years - what should I pay for?

I would simply reply that you don't accept their list but will be using the recommendations provided by the Mieterverband as shown here:

https://www.mieterverband.ch/mv/miet...protokoll.html

They have also have nice simple checklists etc, and just mentioning this shows you know what you are doing and aren't someone they can scam.

All of those appliances have a 15 year lifespan, so unless they were new when you moved in they have no more official life. In any case, your responsibility is to carry out normal end-user tasks (cleaning filters etc), absolutely not a full service.
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Old 11.07.2021, 10:02
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Re: leaving apartment after 12 years - what should I pay for?

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Totally in agreement with the last post; but in terms of action, the less stressful alternative may be to send on the letter to your insurance and tell the landlord you disagree with demands but but have informed your insurance. Then it is a matter for these two parties to sort it out.
No need to involve insurance just yet as those are not damage claims. They are just probing how n00bish you are. If it's a professional landlord they 100% know they have no leg to stand on. But it doesn't hurt to try and some easily intimidated people would just pay to make the problem go away.

Reply, quote the statute and tell "no" (I would use the f word, but up to you) - they should back off and leave you in peace until the handover
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Old 11.07.2021, 10:07
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Re: leaving apartment after 12 years - what should I pay for?

I’ve been in the same appartment for 22 years and am not planning to move out .

But during all that time very little was done . Some kitchen alliances were replaced once . I can’t remember the date but I guess about 15 years ago . The landlord also fitted new thermostats to the radiators and once some cracked tiles in the bathroom were replaced after I reported them . And about two years ago a new front door was fitted.

I am assuming virtually everything is written off by now and there isn’t much they’re going to be able to hit me with . But then I am expecting the worse and know that when I do move out i need to budget for this sort of thing
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Old 11.07.2021, 10:18
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Re: leaving apartment after 12 years - what should I pay for?

You shouldn't need to budget more than a premium+deductible of your liability insurance for this - it should handle almost anything that the landlord can throw against you.


Cleaning the apartment to a satisfactory state is the big one thing usually not covered as that's kind of separate from damages, so maybe budget for cleaners if you don't like cleaning stuff
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Old 11.07.2021, 11:36
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Re: leaving apartment after 12 years - what should I pay for?

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...The stand out one was to have the washer, dryer and dishwasher professionally serviced. ...

No - you are only responsible to CLEAN the appliances and NOT to let them serviced. Do not forget to change the filter in the steam vent so. The easiest is to hire a cleaning institute, a 4-room apartment costs approx. 1000 CHF



More infos for tenants:
https://www.mieterverband.ch/mv/miet...protokoll.html

After so may years I would ask about cleaning as they will probably want to do a refurbishment. I paid about half the going rate for a deep clean to the landlord & did nothing after 15 years. He returned mu deposit with in a week less the cleaning fee.

Last edited by fatmanfilms; 11.07.2021 at 13:26.
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Old 11.07.2021, 12:52
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Re: leaving apartment after 12 years - what should I pay for?

Post the list here and let us all pick it apart and see what is really 'necessary' and what is extra stuff that is beyond reality.



It really does sound like the agent/owner is trying you to see what you will agree to - but maybe they do this because they use this list internally to check what needs to be done 'between tenants' ....
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Old 11.07.2021, 15:59
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Re: leaving apartment after 12 years - what should I pay for?

The 3 pages - enjoy !
Attached Files
File Type: pdf truvag_1.pdf (472.4 KB, 36 views)
File Type: pdf truvag_2.pdf (501.7 KB, 20 views)
File Type: pdf truvag_3.pdf (380.7 KB, 20 views)

Last edited by fptrader; 11.07.2021 at 16:11.
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Old 11.07.2021, 16:03
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Re: leaving apartment after 12 years - what should I pay for?

translated - auto page 1

Trustee real estate
truvag
Leaflet housing delivery
In order to ensure a smooth acceptance of the apartment, we ask you to observe the following points and to do them on the delivery date:
cleaning

Roller shutters: replace defective belts or crank Water taps: seals, tap tops, handles Hotplates: clean, without cracks, not arched, function check Glass ceramic: without cracks and burn marks Baking tray: stain-free (otherwise replace) Grate: stain-free (otherwise replace) Steam exhaust: degrease well ( Cleaning also with filters), filter mats replace neon tubes and starters lamp glasses, light bulbs, sockets, switches if damaged replace TV connections shower hose and shower: replace if damaged window panes: replace cracked panes with glass of the same quality Processes: remove blockages in the basin, bathtub , Shower, toilets
Are to be descaled
3 13
all faucets including removable Neoperl (Siebli) at the spout, tooth glasses and soap dishes, chrome steel and stainless steel closures for washbasins, bathtubs, toilet bowls, plugs and drains to wash basins (kitchen, bath, toilet, shower) shower hose and shower (please replace if worn!) - Cistern (inside), except for the Plättli built-in box in the bathroom and shower
Check functionality
❑ Refrigerator: ice cube trays, interior lighting, vegetable drawers or door compartments and handles
n Oven: interior lighting, control lamp, baking tray, wire shelf, grill accessories ❑ Cooking stove: no cracks, not arched, heat output
Truvag Treuhand AG, April 23, 2021
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Old 11.07.2021, 16:05
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Re: leaving apartment after 12 years - what should I pay for?

translated page 2

Trust real estate truvag
❑ Cabinets: shelf holders, shelves, clothes rails, keys ❑ Doors: Keys to all door locks (including cellar / screed / reduit) ❑ Instructions for use: for refrigerator, stove, dishwasher, steam extractor, tumbler, washing machine etc.
To be removed
II
Adhesives, self-adhesive foils and self-adhesive or screwed hooks • Cabinet paper ❑ Own installations ❑ Nails, dowels, screws (dowel holes professionally closed or have them closed) ❑ Adhesive on mailboxes ❑ Self-laid carpets or similar floor coverings ❑ Lettering from Sonnerie and parking lot
To be replaced with the same quality
• Defective, discolored or damaged small parts on the refrigerator, oven, etc. (handles, brackets, switches, vegetable drawers, ice cube trays, trays and grids etc .; ❑ Defective switches and sockets, lamp glasses, neon tubes, light bulbs ❑ Worn toilet seats, shower hose, shower head , Neoperls, soap dishes, tooth glasses, plugs, toilet brooms ❑ Discolored or cracked covers of the mirror cabinet 111 Defective roller shutter belts ❑ Cracked window glasses
Important
In the case of sole usage authorization, the following must be done by a specialist: Service dishwasher, tumble dryer, washing machine, Secomat (proof of receipt).
Don't forget to clean the screed, cellar, mailbox, garage, parking space, parking lot! When handing over the apartment, please have the most important cleaning agents ready in case re-cleaning is necessary.
Unsubscribe from the electricity company, telephone, residents' registration office, possibly TV subscription.
The apartment will only be accepted when it has been properly cleaned and all repair work has been completed. If there are delays in this regard that make it impossible to hand over the apartment to the new tenant on time, the moving tenant is liable for all costs arising from this.
Truvag Treuhand AG, April 23, 2021
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Old 11.07.2021, 16:07
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Re: leaving apartment after 12 years - what should I pay for?

translated page 3

Tips for cleaning
Oven:
Trust real estate truvag
In the oven, the heating coil can usually be tilted by tilting the bracket and the side guide rails removed. Control buttons on the dashboard can be pulled out on most cooker models. Clean the front of the oven doors on the hinge side as well.
Cooking stove: clean the glass ceramic with a special blade and glass ceramic cleaner.
Dishwasher: Clean and descale according to the instructions for use (have service carried out).
Steam extraction filter: Dismantle metal parts ahead of time and insert them (at least 24 hours), filter grids can also be washed in the dishwasher.
Bathtub / shower: dismantle the shower hose and shower head and place in the decalcifying bath (e.g. vinegar).
Sun protection: Roller shutters and shutters as well as slat blinds are to be washed, the sun blind rods are to be wet cleaned, and the fabric is to be brushed off.
Floors: Soak up parquet and slab coverings with a damp cloth, have carpets extracted by a specialist, linoleum and synthetic coverings must not be treated with hard wax or layers of varnish.
Garden / balcony:
Clear away and remove weeds and free the ground from any moss infestation. If necessary, arrange private plantings with a new tenant.
Truvag Treuhand AG, April 23, 2021
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Old 12.07.2021, 06:11
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Re: leaving apartment after 12 years - what should I pay for?

That seem like a laundry list of all the stuff they will go through during your handover, provided to you as FYI or so. Take note and see where you will have problems. But not all of the stuff is your financial responsiblity. General principle like I said is that you're only liable for damages, and even then just the part exceeding normal wear & tear. "Small maintenance" (see below) is another thing you're liable for, but professional service is definitely outside the scope of it.

You really have to clean. Insurance will not cover it for you sorry - very common exclusion, makes little business sense for insurers to underwrite or everybody would claim it. You can hire a cleaning firm if you don't feel like cleaning yourself, they all give a guarantee to satisfy the landlord or your money back

If you broke some shit, like window or fridge's plastic parts (very difficult to argue they cracked on their own, so automatically becomes your fault), you fix or pay for that or get your insurance to pay. It should be pro-rated for the remaining lifespan of a part. Small maintenance/repairs, usually defined as 2 to small 3 figure value not requiring a specialist, was your obligation to do during the tenancy. These are things like changing a broken light bulb etc. If you neglected, you can be held liable for that now.

Bigger repairs especially requiring a specialist outcall are on the landlord, you pay rent in part for them to maintain the property! You should have actually reported any broken shit to the landlord when it broke so they'd arrange repairs on time; don't surpise them on the last day or they will surpise you with charges - which are contestable as it's still ultimately their shit to fix, but can be a waste of time and energy to deal with

Last edited by kerneltrick; 12.07.2021 at 06:45.
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Old 12.07.2021, 08:28
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Re: leaving apartment after 12 years - what should I pay for?

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If you broke some shit, like window or fridge's plastic parts (very difficult to argue they cracked on their own, so automatically becomes your fault), you fix or pay for that or get your insurance to pay. It should be pro-rated for the remaining lifespan of a part. Small maintenance/repairs, usually defined as 2 to small 3 figure value not requiring a specialist, was your obligation to do during the tenancy. These are things like changing a broken light bulb etc. If you neglected, you can be held liable for that now.

Bigger repairs especially requiring a specialist outcall are on the landlord, you pay rent in part for them to maintain the property! You should have actually reported any broken shit to the landlord when it broke so they'd arrange repairs on time; don't surpise them on the last day or they will surpise you with charges - which are contestable as it's still ultimately their shit to fix, but can be a waste of time and energy to deal with
Actually plastic can become brittle with age
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Old 12.07.2021, 08:48
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Re: leaving apartment after 12 years - what should I pay for?

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translated page 3

Tips for cleaning
Oven:
Trust real estate truvag
In the oven, the heating coil can usually be tilted by tilting the bracket and the side guide rails removed. Control buttons on the dashboard can be pulled out on most cooker models. Clean the front of the oven doors on the hinge side as well.
Cooking stove: clean the glass ceramic with a special blade and glass ceramic cleaner.
Dishwasher: Clean and descale according to the instructions for use (have service carried out).
Steam extraction filter: Dismantle metal parts ahead of time and insert them (at least 24 hours), filter grids can also be washed in the dishwasher.
Bathtub / shower: dismantle the shower hose and shower head and place in the decalcifying bath (e.g. vinegar).
Sun protection: Roller shutters and shutters as well as slat blinds are to be washed, the sun blind rods are to be wet cleaned, and the fabric is to be brushed off.
Floors: Soak up parquet and slab coverings with a damp cloth, have carpets extracted by a specialist, linoleum and synthetic coverings must not be treated with hard wax or layers of varnish.
Garden / balcony:
Clear away and remove weeds and free the ground from any moss infestation. If necessary, arrange private plantings with a new tenant.
Truvag Treuhand AG, April 23, 2021
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As others have said, contact the Mietverband.ch for advice on whether the list of requests is reasonable and also so that a representative can be there for your handover day to stop any silliness from the rental agency.
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