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  #21  
Old 26.07.2021, 09:23
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Re: Remote Job Offer - where to live?

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Certainly NOT in Ticino!

Tom
I’m pretty certain it doesn’t exist in Zurich either, in fact there are very few cantons where it does exist.
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  #22  
Old 26.07.2021, 09:29
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Re: Remote Job Offer - where to live?

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I’m pretty certain it doesn’t exist in Zurich either, in fact there are very few cantons where it does exist.
From what I initially hearing from some people though there are two different forms of this:

- concubine permit
- B-permit extended to partner on basis of providing evidences and financial guarantees

I would assume Zurich does allow for the latter?
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  #23  
Old 26.07.2021, 10:14
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Re: Remote Job Offer - where to live?

I'm sure Zurich does allow for the latter (friends of mine did it).

Regarding the former, not sure about Zurich but know people in Argau having it (relatively short commute to Zurich if one lives on the right side and close to a train station).
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Old 26.07.2021, 10:26
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Re: Remote Job Offer - where to live?

Hi floroz,

You’ve got your ducks in a row and you’re studying every option.
Good for you!! 😊

Important question:
Is your company / current employer represented legally in Switzerland?
Do they have a legal entity here?

It’s the sine qua none condition for you to work here.
Again, any experts please correct me if I’m wrong.
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Old 26.07.2021, 10:27
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Re: Remote Job Offer - where to live?

OP does your company have presence in CH so that they are set up to pay your social security etc?

I fear some companies are jumping on the "Globl citizens" bandwagon without realizing there are rules and regulations that are not quite so accomodating yet etc.

In any case, if I were coming new to Zürich I would live in Wiedikon or around the Airport - I find those are areas with still comparably ok rents and easy to reach everywhere.

K
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  #26  
Old 26.07.2021, 10:38
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Re: Remote Job Offer - where to live?

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Because I would like to live somewhere where there is an English-speaking community, and potential for more job opportunities in the future.
Zurich is definitely one of those places.
And the influence of Italian culture is also relevant here, which could be a nice perk.

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Can you expand on this? My partner is EU citizen as well
When your partner finds a job, a new independent permit can be issued (not sure if it also has to).
Depending on the job and the employer, the new permit could be time limited and/or bound to the specific job, meaning job gone permit gone.

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I look for beautiful nature and a short distance to Italy.
And let me add: short distance to many other places, by plane or train.

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Could you define Zurich area for me? I have been looking at place like Thalwil and Horgen, are they considered 'Zurich' or suburbs/commuting-town?
I would say commuting towns, but transport is really good and I know many people commuting from Thalwil, Horgen, or Meilen on the other side of the lake.

Get something cheap close to a train station, and move after 2 years when you know the area a bit better.

In a similar situation (SW engineer, <= 100 kCHF, with partner looking for job) I managed to live in Zurich city and also save something. I like to be close to both services and nature, I regularly walk in the woods or take a tram to the lake - everything is within 20' of public transport. I don't care much of night-life either, but one day I need a specific shop, another day it's the consulate, then comes the museum and so on... to me it's definitely worth the extra price.
If you want to give it a try, Schwamendingen (north-east) and Seebach (north) areas are not so expensive but still Zurich city.
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  #27  
Old 26.07.2021, 12:08
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Re: Remote Job Offer - where to live?

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I'm sure Zurich does allow for the latter (friends of mine did it).

Regarding the former, not sure about Zurich but know people in Argau having it (relatively short commute to Zurich if one lives on the right side and close to a train station).
Good to know thanks!

I have sent an email to the Kanton to ask specifically about that option.

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Important question:
Is your company / current employer represented legally in Switzerland?
Do they have a legal entity here?
.
They are an US/UK company who will be using a global payroll provider with legal entities in CH to provide me with a Swiss contract, and pay for my taxes and social insurances.

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In a similar situation (SW engineer, <= 100 kCHF, with partner looking for job) I managed to live in Zurich city and also save something. I like to be close to both services and nature, I regularly walk in the woods or take a tram to the lake - everything is within 20' of public transport. I don't care much of night-life either, but one day I need a specific shop, another day it's the consulate, then comes the museum and so on... to me it's definitely worth the extra price.
If you want to give it a try, Schwamendingen (north-east) and Seebach (north) areas are not so expensive but still Zurich city.
Thank you, happy to know it seems I am doing the right choice.

Will have a look at the places you mentioned. I am happy to invest more on housing as for me it represents both a place to work, but also want to enjoy my stay as I will be saving in other areas (don't have expensive hobbies, don't shop much, don't go out a lot, I am italian so I cook a lot, etc).

I am worried about everyone flagging how difficult it is to rent, not sure how to handle that aspect I will need to do more researchj
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  #28  
Old 26.07.2021, 12:30
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Re: Remote Job Offer - where to live?

Here are your taxes with a 6700 gross salary. (with some comparable cantons) Wherever you go, look for an area that has a good internet connection. (Fiber if possible)

Canton of Zurich
Taxes per month (CHF)
551
Taxes per year (CHF)
6,608
Tax rate in %
8
Canton of Aargau
Taxes per month (CHF)
670
Taxes per year (CHF)
8,040
Tax rate in %
10
Canton of Ticino
Taxes per month (CHF)
750
Taxes per year (CHF)
9,005
Tax rate in %
11
Canton of Schaffhausen
Taxes per month (CHF)
797
Taxes per year (CHF)
9,568
Tax rate in %
12
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  #29  
Old 26.07.2021, 14:10
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Re: Remote Job Offer - where to live?

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I am worried about everyone flagging how difficult it is to rent
It is. You need a bit of luck, and in the beginning you just take what you find.
I started with a 1.5 (room with cooking corner), after one year I moved to 2.5 (found here on EF) and recently I moved again within Zurich city. Now hopefully in our 5th year we'll settle down for a while

You must be flexible, willing to compromise and patient. Rule of thumb is max 1/3 of your (gross) salary can go into rent, the rest is up to you (want a balcony? want a car and a parking spot? want something new? etc).

And you need time to research, and also to be in CH when it comes to visit apartments. I started by booking 2 weeks in a cheap hotel, with plans to extend it.

House-related words were the first pieces of German I learned...
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Old 26.07.2021, 14:11
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Re: Remote Job Offer - where to live?

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Here are your taxes with a 6700 gross salary. (with some comparable cantons) Wherever you go, look for an area that has a good internet connection. (Fiber if possible)

Canton of Zurich
Taxes per month (CHF)
551
Taxes per year (CHF)
6,608
Tax rate in %
8
Canton of Aargau
Taxes per month (CHF)
670
Taxes per year (CHF)
8,040
Tax rate in %
10
Canton of Ticino
Taxes per month (CHF)
750
Taxes per year (CHF)
9,005
Tax rate in %
11
Canton of Schaffhausen
Taxes per month (CHF)
797
Taxes per year (CHF)
9,568
Tax rate in %
12
OP is talking of a gross salary of 8-8.3k a month, but the general idea still applies. Plus c. 6.5% social security and whatever company pension deductions are agreed.
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  #31  
Old 26.07.2021, 14:42
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Re: Remote Job Offer - where to live?

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It is. You need a bit of luck, and in the beginning you just take what you find.
I started with a 1.5 (room with cooking corner), after one year I moved to 2.5 (found here on EF) and recently I moved again within Zurich city. Now hopefully in our 5th year we'll settle down for a while

You must be flexible, willing to compromise and patient. Rule of thumb is max 1/3 of your (gross) salary can go into rent, the rest is up to you (want a balcony? want a car and a parking spot? want something new? etc).

And you need time to research, and also to be in CH when it comes to visit apartments. I started by booking 2 weeks in a cheap hotel, with plans to extend it.

House-related words were the first pieces of German I learned...
Are there any option for short-term renting? Ideally I would like to rent temporarily for a month or two to have time to look for a good solution.

Some have said that best period to look would be March though, so could also consider a 6 months short rent?
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  #32  
Old 26.07.2021, 14:54
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Re: Remote Job Offer - where to live?

There are some options, e.g. furnished apartments. I know Vision Apartments but I never used their services, and there are others. A bit expensive, maybe, but less than hotels.

Most contracts are open-ended and you must give a few months notice. But there are short-term contracts, e.g. when someone goes abroad for 6 months and sublets, or (like in my case) when a company buys a building and rents it out while it plans for the demolition and reconstruction.

March is the traditional period of the year when long-term contracts are allowed to be closed, to my understanding the owners will look for new long-term contracts and possibly even at a higher price. This because prices can't go up while a contract is running (except in case of internal renovations) while there is no limit for new contracts.
When people have to leave and it's not March, they must pay until March or provide someone to pick up the contract. Here you have a better chance to find something interesting at old prices, but you have to rely more on forums and online groups rather than agency adverts.

And there are exceptions to the above... there's a lot to read about the topic here on EF.
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  #33  
Old 26.07.2021, 16:13
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Re: Remote Job Offer - where to live?

Places like Vision Apartments require you to pay the entire rent up front. When I used them (for 3 months in 2016) I had to pay all 3 months in advance. Luckily, my employer paid it but it would have been a big sunk cost if I had to pay out of pocket. You could look at an air bnb but I'm not sure if you can register a permit to an air bnb address, best to check with Kanton Zurich.

If I understand correctly that you swapped a GBP salary for a CHF salary (a pure FX switch), I hate to say it but that is just poor negotiating skills. I know everyone says "well I like hiking outdoors and swimming in the lake" but the reality is Zurich is wet and miserable in the winter and you will likely want to ski and travel (both cost money) and on 100k supporting 2 people you might find that tricky.

Just a bit of advice for you, your starting salary in Switzerland is hugely important as it will be used (i) to set all future increases in pay, and (ii) will be used by future employers to set your new pay. The Swiss Germans don't like performance based pay and prefer to reward loyalty/rank/years of service so if you come in on a low-ball number that will set you back for years to come.

Best of luck!
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  #34  
Old 26.07.2021, 19:58
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Re: Remote Job Offer - where to live?

Only because I haven't seen anyone else mention it (and please do let OP know the downsides) - have you thought about Frauenfeld TG? Especially since you're not looking for nightlife, housing is a lot cheaper than Kanton Zurich, easy access to shopping in Germany, and two train stops to the Zurich airport on the fast trains. On the bad side: not easy to find other expats, and it is a village in my mind.

Good luck!
Katerina
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Old 26.07.2021, 20:44
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Re: Remote Job Offer - where to live?

How about being fair to the OP?

Zurich is very expensive.

1800 CHF rent (minimum) with charges
350 CHF health insurance (basic) per month per person 700 CHF
50 CHF minimum per month per person for mobile phones (again the strict minimum in regards to international calls
100 CHF home internet/tv/wifi
700 CHF circa in tax-at-source (seems low to me, but based on what others below are saying)
134 CHF mobility public transportation pass x2, 268 CHF
35 CHF house insurance/lisbility insurance

That’s already 3700 CHF and you haven’t counted food or clothing or any entertainment.

1 steak in Migros is about 12 CHF so 10 £
1 chicken is about 12 CHF so 10 £
6 eggs are 5 CHF so 4 £
1 box of paracetamol is circa 5 CHF so 4 £ (instead of 30 p in ASDA)
500 gr of cherried circa 5 CHF so 4 £

1 weeks grocery shopping at Lidl or Aldi for 2 people is 100 CHF so 80 £

Regarding the 350 CHF min for health insurance that’s with a large «franchise» of 1500 to 2000 CHF which means the first 1500 - 2000 CHF of medical expenses are paid by the person then health insurance kicks in and after thst amount you pay 10 %. This doesn’t include dental insurance.
You can have a lower franchise, but that means you pay circa 400 to 450 CHF per month per person (maybe less, you’re young)
Check comparis.ch for details

Hope this helps you figure out a budget
Again, please everybody correct this if you wish
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Old 26.07.2021, 21:19
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Re: Remote Job Offer - where to live?

>134 CHF mobility public transportation pass x2, 268 CHF

not needed or worth the cost if he works at home and doesn't use it every day.
Get a halb-tax (180-160 chf a year) and a bike. Use the bike for stuff in the city.
The closer to the city center and good shopping you live, the less this is a limitation.
It's a limitation only when it's raining if you don't have plastics to cover yourself or the motivation and you really have to go, in that case you might prefer to buy a ticket for that one occasion, with the halbtax it's not such a pain.

You need to spend at least 4 francs a day on average on a halbtax to make the pass less expensive. And the halbtax you need anyway for day trips to the alps or other cities.

Furnished apartments and airbnbs are fairly expensive but it's easier to find a flat when you are on the ground.

I don't get the bashing on Lugano for healthcare stuff, sure for seriously specialized stuff of certain kinds (because for some kinds you find all you need) you might need a bigger canton, but I didn't get the impression OP has particular health problems at this time. And this applies to any smaller place really.
Still, for OP it does not make sense to go to Ticino. It kills any opportunity for his partner to gain nothing for him since he's clearly fluent in English and German Switzerland is also full of italians. You'd also be making yourself completely dependent on your remote job, if you ever want to or have to change you might end up having to move anyway. If you can stand swiss german weather, go there.
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Old 26.07.2021, 21:19
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Re: Remote Job Offer - where to live?

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Hope this helps you figure out a budget
Again, please everybody correct this if you wish
I can more or less confirm the numbers you have written.

I remember that the first months in CH I was just scared by prices and I was saving like crazy. When I saw the savings slowly but steadily growing I kind of relaxed a bit...
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  #38  
Old 27.07.2021, 08:50
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Re: Remote Job Offer - where to live?

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If I understand correctly that you swapped a GBP salary for a CHF salary (a pure FX switch), I hate to say it but that is just poor negotiating skills.
Well before judging my negotiation skills you should maybe understand the context? I am not 'swapping a salary'. My company is supporting my relocation and they are taking on the costs of providing a payroll in Switzerland.

They don't have any obligation to offer me the market rate in Zurich, and we are talking about a FX to 100k CHF, not 50k CHF.

For my level of experience in my field in Switzerland I could be earning 115k-130k CHF.

However, if we then add the costs of transportation to get to an office, and the daily lunch expenses, the overall difference in compensation is not stark.

I also want to continue working remotely while I settle down.

Quote:
I know everyone says "well I like hiking outdoors and swimming in the lake" but the reality is Zurich is wet and miserable in the winter and you will likely want to ski and travel (both cost money) and on 100k supporting 2 people you might find that tricky.
I have lived in London 7 years so I can handle bad weather without running to a ski resort!

Also since I work remotely I can always go to South Italy to swim for a couple of weeks, without any additional financial cost


Quote:
Just a bit of advice for you, your starting salary in Switzerland is hugely important as it will be used (i) to set all future increases in pay, and (ii) will be used by future employers to set your new pay. The Swiss Germans don't like performance based pay and prefer to reward loyalty/rank/years of service so if you come in on a low-ball number that will set you back for years to come.
My pay will be set by a foreign employee so I will set clear expectations when I change my job.
At the end of the day I am lucky enough to be a Software Engineer so I can always have multiple options when applying for jobs.
And again, I am starting from 100k CHF offered from a UK company.. not really sure how that could set me back for years to come...
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Old 27.07.2021, 08:56
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Re: Remote Job Offer - where to live?

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How about being fair to the OP?

Zurich is very expensive.

1800 CHF rent (minimum) with charges
350 CHF health insurance (basic) per month per person 700 CHF
50 CHF minimum per month per person for mobile phones (again the strict minimum in regards to international calls
100 CHF home internet/tv/wifi
700 CHF circa in tax-at-source (seems low to me, but based on what others below are saying)
134 CHF mobility public transportation pass x2, 268 CHF
35 CHF house insurance/lisbility insurance

That’s already 3700 CHF and you haven’t counted food or clothing or any entertainment.

1 steak in Migros is about 12 CHF so 10 £
1 chicken is about 12 CHF so 10 £
6 eggs are 5 CHF so 4 £
1 box of paracetamol is circa 5 CHF so 4 £ (instead of 30 p in ASDA)
500 gr of cherried circa 5 CHF so 4 £

1 weeks grocery shopping at Lidl or Aldi for 2 people is 100 CHF so 80 £

Regarding the 350 CHF min for health insurance that’s with a large «franchise» of 1500 to 2000 CHF which means the first 1500 - 2000 CHF of medical expenses are paid by the person then health insurance kicks in and after thst amount you pay 10 %. This doesn’t include dental insurance.
You can have a lower franchise, but that means you pay circa 400 to 450 CHF per month per person (maybe less, you’re young)
Check comparis.ch for details

Hope this helps you figure out a budget
Again, please everybody correct this if you wish

Thanks for your suggestion!

I have run a scenario with the following:


immagini png

That leaves me with ~2500 to cover most out of pocket expenses.

It doesn't really sound too much hardship, considering that

1. my partner could find at some point an English speaking job
2. after 6-12 months I can apply for a Swiss job for a much higher salary
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  #40  
Old 27.07.2021, 09:12
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Re: Remote Job Offer - where to live?

Just at a glance, Medical does not work. The cheapest premium in Zürich assuming you are 30ish is 275 with a 2500 CHF franchise per person. A simple doc visit may set you back a few 100s so I would factor in the proper costs and something monthly to cover the deductible.
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