Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 13.08.2021, 13:24
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: To rent or not to rent?

Quote:
View Post
Ok, forget about renting out my main residence, let's say hypothetically, I own a holiday apartment:

So.. the OP (Curiosare), can rent my holiday apartment, pay me a lump sum in advance so that I don't have a credit risk, put a relatively large amount in deposit (in case debt collectors come around and take my furniture and appliances away.), and thus will officially rent my apartment and have an official Swiss residence.

Only that OP will not actually stay in my place and I continue to use it most weekends and some holidays. I can even continue to AirBnB it out.

Officially, I am just a landlord who rented my place out, and all I am liable for is the income tax on the rental income.
sounds right to me.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 13.08.2021, 13:27
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 8,784
Groaned at 109 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 13,583 Times in 5,529 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: To rent or not to rent?

As I understand it, to get a permit to live in Switzerland, you must have a real, physical domicile that is the central focus point of your life. It is then fine to be on holiday, from there, as much as you like (as long as you have sufficient funds to support yourselves, "sufficient" being defined by the Swiss immigration authorities in the area in which you try to settle). Pseudo-addresses comprising of only a sticker on the letterbox do not count as a real home. And yes, the police do check on this.

OP, you might like to read about this concept of "middle point of your life" in this thread (started by someone with different circumstances from yours, but I think you will be able to extrapolate to your own situation) and the several links, there:
https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-...itzerland.html

It is for these reasons that I recommended, above, that you rent a small apartment, somewhere, and install some of your things there, and return to it from time to time, to rest from van-life, and then set off again. That would be legal.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #43  
Old 13.08.2021, 13:29
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: To rent or not to rent?

Quote:
View Post
Something off the beaten path may not be eligible as a primary residence.

A ring doorbell will do nothing for you if you are not there.
Maybe not everything is eligible as a primary residence but there are sufficient places that are. I guess what the OP needs is a no bells and whistles simple apartment at which he and his/her partner would be officially registered and domiciled, in a place where both rent and tax burden are advantageous.

I don't think that's impossible.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #44  
Old 13.08.2021, 13:50
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Zurich
Posts: 30
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 22 Times in 13 Posts
Curiosare has earned some respectCuriosare has earned some respect
Re: To rent or not to rent?

Quote:
View Post
you are reluctant to tap into your banking connections (costs) and don’t want to pay rent if avoidable.
We did "tap into our banking connections" to get a quote as to how much this "advice" will cost us. It makes no sense to follow ANY of the bankers' advice. They are bankers NOT Swiss travel consultants with a specialty in intra-Switzerland caravan/motorhome travel and they know much less than we know about travel. This is perfectly fine because they are bankers and NOT actual travelers. This was quite evident during the first minute of the interlocution.


Quote:
Your idea of a mini Winnebago seems a bit questionable too. Not cheap as such.
Of course, not cheap, but we'll be using it and experiencing it. The best way I can explain it is this: (A) Pay CHF 20 for a breakfast at COOP and NOT eat it or enjoy it or (B) Pay CHF 100 for a breakfast at Ritz Carlton while eating it and enjoying it. I presume most people would choose (B), right?

Quote:
Are you experienced in moving such an obstacle around? It, and the towing vehicle will have to plated locally – is your current driver’s licence transferable?
Yes. Both my wife and I have driven and are qualified to drive and pull containers in the USA and China. From the looks of it, equivalent to the C1E and D1E here in Switzerland. We're hands-on people.

We have NO idea if our driver's licenses are transferable or not. We've asked. We're waiting for an answer.

Further clarification:
Our objective is to travel INTRA-Switzerland. It doesn't have to be an Airstream Classic. It can be a heavy-duty truck pulling a little caravan. Something equivalent to the Basecamp. https://www.airstream.com/travel-tra...oose-your-own/

Some days/nights, weeks, or even one month we may even stay at a serviced apartment. As Karl (https://www.englishforum.ch/members/23376-karl.html), pointed out there is https://park4night.com/ where we can park the caravan overnight.

We are a flexible and accommodating couple. We're only on EF to seek advice/solutions from a gem of a person; an experienced problem-solver who has done it (successfully traveled intra-Switzerland with a caravan/motorhome) and knows how to reproduce their previous success. We appreciate and are thankful to Karl for his recommendation.

Thank you all for your wonderful advice.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Curiosare for this useful post:
  #45  
Old 13.08.2021, 13:54
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Zurich
Posts: 30
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 22 Times in 13 Posts
Curiosare has earned some respectCuriosare has earned some respect
Re: To rent or not to rent?

Quote:
View Post
Maybe not everything is eligible as a primary residence but there are sufficient places that are. I guess what the OP needs is a no bells and whistles simple apartment at which he and his/her partner would be officially registered and domiciled, in a place where both rent and tax burden are advantageous.

I don't think that's impossible.
Finally! Somebody who understands us.

PS. Yes, we are a wife & a husband of +30 years in marriage
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Curiosare for this useful post:
  #46  
Old 13.08.2021, 14:39
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,706
Groaned at 9 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,228 Times in 674 Posts
axman has a reputation beyond reputeaxman has a reputation beyond reputeaxman has a reputation beyond reputeaxman has a reputation beyond repute
Re: To rent or not to rent?

I once rented out an apartment (not in Switzerland) to this guy who was only there once to pick up the keys and once at termination.

He was working for an Oil&Gas company, rather high up, but seems that he preferred to be on the offshore rigs, or went home to his country (a short flight away) on his days off. His office paid the bills and rental, and I found out from the apartment services company that he left his keys with them. So I went to have a look at the apartment and he had no furniture!

He did this for a few years. Best tenant ever…. But I did realize that things start to decay if no one uses them. When I met him in the end, he said that he actually had all the intention to move in properly, but just never got around to doing it because he would rather spend time at home with his school aged kids when he is not on the rig, and while usually his company pays for an apartment so that he can go to the local office, for the first time he is working not far at all from his home country, and with remote working being very easy, he just didn’t see the need to be at the apartment.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank axman for this useful post:
  #47  
Old 13.08.2021, 14:46
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Baselland
Posts: 592
Groaned at 28 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 730 Times in 366 Posts
LtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond repute
Re: To rent or not to rent?

As said, can’t advise on type of resident permit. You seem to be non-EU nationals (retired, w/o regular local income) – what is it about the long term banking connection’s advice you reject? They might be clueless about camping but should be able to give you info regarding registration/taxes.
You obviously need a legal address. As you disapprove of a (perhaps dubious) subletting agreement - rent an apartment and “enrich” the landlord.
As your (US?) driver’s licences are presumably transferable get it done and insure the vehicles under local conditions.
Not really into (expensive) breakfasts myself but I get your drift
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank LtSoftDrink for this useful post:
  #48  
Old 13.08.2021, 15:12
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Zurich
Posts: 30
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 22 Times in 13 Posts
Curiosare has earned some respectCuriosare has earned some respect
Re: To rent or not to rent?

Quote:
View Post
As said, can’t advise on type of resident permit. You seem to be non-EU nationals (retired, w/o regular local income) – what is it about the long term banking connection’s advice you reject? They might be clueless about camping but should be able to give you info regarding registration/taxes.
You obviously need a legal address. As you disapprove of a (perhaps dubious) subletting agreement - rent an apartment and “enrich” the landlord.
As your (US?) driver’s licences are presumably transferable get it done and insure the vehicles under local conditions.
Not really into (expensive) breakfasts myself but I get your drift
Both my wife and I are EU nationals. From the original Schengen seven member countries. I mentioned this in the beginning. Here it is again:
Quote:
We’re new to this forum and the reason we joined is for guidance in Switzerland. Both my wife and I are EU citizens.
Quote:
what is it about the long term banking connection’s advice you reject? They might be clueless about camping but should be able to give you info regarding registration/taxes.
We rather not discuss, mention, or even think about unpleasant experiences. They are not beneficial to the well-being of society.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 13.08.2021, 15:31
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Baselland
Posts: 592
Groaned at 28 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 730 Times in 366 Posts
LtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond repute
Re: To rent or not to rent?

Quote:
View Post
Both my wife and I are EU nationals.
Sorry, obviously missed that (although I did scroll down the thread ) – so, calling out to those in the know: what do retired EU-nationals have to do to establish legal residence in CH. Forget complications about caravans and over priced breakfasts etc.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank LtSoftDrink for this useful post:
  #50  
Old 13.08.2021, 15:35
Klostersgirl's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: ZH
Posts: 739
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 1,395 Times in 440 Posts
Klostersgirl has a reputation beyond reputeKlostersgirl has a reputation beyond reputeKlostersgirl has a reputation beyond reputeKlostersgirl has a reputation beyond reputeKlostersgirl has a reputation beyond reputeKlostersgirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: To rent or not to rent?

I can't help but feel that Curiosaire is being cross examined by a few posters. I am afraid I can't help at all, but like Amogles, I dont think what's being proposed is impossible.

Last edited by Klostersgirl; 13.08.2021 at 15:36. Reason: Typo
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Klostersgirl for this useful post:
  #51  
Old 13.08.2021, 15:58
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Baselland
Posts: 592
Groaned at 28 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 730 Times in 366 Posts
LtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond repute
Re: To rent or not to rent?

Quote:
View Post
I can't help but feel that Curiosaire is being cross examined by a few posters. I am afraid I can't help at all, but like Amogles, I dont think what's being proposed is impossible.
Nobody said it's impossible - how does a retired EU-national get whatever permit is necessary under conditions which appeal to the OP?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank LtSoftDrink for this useful post:
  #52  
Old 13.08.2021, 17:34
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 8,784
Groaned at 109 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 13,583 Times in 5,529 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: To rent or not to rent?

Quote:
View Post
Nobody said it's impossible - how does a retired EU-national get whatever permit is necessary under conditions which appeal to the OP?
Yes, definitely not impossible. In fact, very easy, as I said above:
  1. by proving that they have enough funds to support themselves, and what counts as "enough" is a question of municipal or cantonal rules. If OP is moderately wealthy, this will not be a problem. The immigration authorities just want to be sure that the newcomers will not end up needing to knock at the door of the Social Security office.

  2. by renting a room or an apartment of their taste, and demonstrating that this is the middlepoint of their lives. This is done (as explained in the other threads to which I linked, above) by several factors, the main two of which are
    a) putting some of one's things in the apartment
    b) actually sleeping there from time to time (while not on holiday).
    Other factors could be, for example
    c) registering there with a local GP (family doctor), so as to be able to go home and see the doctor any time one needed to
    d) registering there at the local library, and taking out some books from time to time
    e) getting to know some of the neighbours.

OP's plan is (apart from the large vehicle) perfectly do-able, and it's a lovely idea to slowly take in various parts of Switzerland, at one's leisure.

Last edited by doropfiz; 13.08.2021 at 19:05.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #53  
Old 14.08.2021, 01:38
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 15,044
Groaned at 295 Times in 199 Posts
Thanked 19,146 Times in 8,049 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: To rent or not to rent?

Quote:
View Post
I once rented out an apartment (not in Switzerland) to this guy who was only there once to pick up the keys and once at termination.

He was working for an Oil&Gas company, rather high up, but seems that he preferred to be on the offshore rigs, or went home to his country (a short flight away) on his days off. His office paid the bills and rental, and I found out from the apartment services company that he left his keys with them. So I went to have a look at the apartment and he had no furniture!

He did this for a few years. Best tenant ever…. But I did realize that things start to decay if no one uses them. When I met him in the end, he said that he actually had all the intention to move in properly, but just never got around to doing it because he would rather spend time at home with his school aged kids when he is not on the rig, and while usually his company pays for an apartment so that he can go to the local office, for the first time he is working not far at all from his home country, and with remote working being very easy, he just didn’t see the need to be at the apartment.
you should have rented it out twice
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 14.08.2021, 01:46
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 15,044
Groaned at 295 Times in 199 Posts
Thanked 19,146 Times in 8,049 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: To rent or not to rent?

Quote:
View Post
Our question is: Are their solutions to our rent dilemma in Switzerland or do we have to accept we’ll enrich a landlord with ~CHF120K for the next 5 years?

Thank you in advance for any suggestions.
Yes, I will accept you as tenants

Easiest will be get a small cheap flat even if you don't use it much. I guess there are camp sites where you can park your vehicle long term and also have it accepted as your residence (many do not allow you to have your primary residence there). Assuming you have a lot of money, you could actually save money by picking a low tax jurisdiction.

So unless you find this magical camp site in a low tax jurisdiction, AND that allows having it as a permanent residence, AND that allows you not to be there much while maintaining that residence, AND it has availability immediately when you want to relocate to Switzerland, THEN it's probably easier to pay for a flat.

When I was looking at retirement options, the cost of renting an apartment in a neighbouring canton and living there would have been covered by the wealth tax savings alone.
__________________
By replying to this post, you hereby grant Phil_MCR a royalty-free license to use, in any way, anything posted by you on the internet. If you do not accept, stop using EF and delete your account.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #55  
Old 14.08.2021, 08:06
kri's Avatar
kri kri is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 2,573
Groaned at 54 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 2,479 Times in 1,223 Posts
kri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond repute
Re: To rent or not to rent?

If I were you I would pick a low tax canton and then look for a remote village and rent a small flat there, like a one bedroom. That should not cost more than 800 CHF.

Then I would take a different van - one that makes you agile and nimble like a VW California T6 - it is slightly bigger than a normal car, can drive it everywhere and park it in town centres. Granted it is not as comfy but can reall, explore and move around which you will not be able to do with the trailer you mentioned. Add 2 electrict bikes and it works well. Perhaps then once in a while splurge on a nice hotel night or two for proper bed feel.

K
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank kri for this useful post:
  #56  
Old 14.08.2021, 14:51
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Zurich
Posts: 30
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 22 Times in 13 Posts
Curiosare has earned some respectCuriosare has earned some respect
Re: To rent or not to rent?

Quote:
View Post

When I was looking at retirement options, the cost of renting an apartment in a neighbouring canton and living there would have been covered by the wealth tax savings alone.
We think we understand this, but we (wife & husband) came up with different understanding (independently & separately written understanding) to what you meant, so as a tie-breaker, could you please expand on what you meant with "living there would have been covered by the wealth tax savings alone."?????

Thank you so very much in advance
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 14.08.2021, 15:40
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 15,044
Groaned at 295 Times in 199 Posts
Thanked 19,146 Times in 8,049 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: To rent or not to rent?

Quote:
View Post
We think we understand this, but we (wife & husband) came up with different understanding (independently & separately written understanding) to what you meant, so as a tie-breaker, could you please expand on what you meant with "living there would have been covered by the wealth tax savings alone."?????

Thank you so very much in advance
rent < tax savings
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 14.08.2021, 15:48
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 10,031
Groaned at 579 Times in 419 Posts
Thanked 13,473 Times in 7,006 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: To rent or not to rent?

Quote:
View Post
We think we understand this, but we (wife & husband) came up with different understanding (independently & separately written understanding) to what you meant, so as a tie-breaker, could you please expand on what you meant with "living there would have been covered by the wealth tax savings alone."?????

Thank you so very much in advance
The income tax scale varies by Canton. The tax rate applied within that scale varies by Canton and commune. Plus, Switzerland taxes wealth, for which the tax scale and rate varies by Canton. Wealth tax may be more important to you, see here for a simple overview.

In short, the location of residence can have a massive influence on your tax bill.

Under certain circumstances, capital gains may be deemed taxable as income. You absolutely(!) want to avoid this. Some Cantons offer lump sum taxation for foreigners who don't earn income in Switzerland, look up "PauschalBesteuerung".

Frankly, if this is news to you your decision to avoid your private bankers makes absolute sense.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #59  
Old 14.08.2021, 16:18
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Zurich
Posts: 30
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 22 Times in 13 Posts
Curiosare has earned some respectCuriosare has earned some respect
Re: To rent or not to rent?

Quote:
View Post
The income tax scale varies by Canton. The tax rate applied within that scale varies by Canton and commune. Plus, Switzerland taxes wealth, for which the tax scale and rate varies by Canton. Wealth tax may be more important to you, see here for a simple overview.

In short, the location of residence can have a massive influence on your tax bill.

Under certain circumstances, capital gains may be deemed taxable as income. You absolutely(!) want to avoid this. Some Cantons offer lump sum taxation for foreigners who don't earn income in Switzerland, look up "PauschalBesteuerung".
Wow! This is incredibly helpful. Now, this is what I am talking about EF being a wonderful place for a newcomer.

Quote:
Frankly, if this is news to you your decision to avoid your private bankers makes absolute sense.
This person understands "Why Experts Always Seem To Get It Wrong" Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsat...-get-it-wrong/

Thank you very much. This has been quite helpful. We're digging into the literature. You'd be surprised how many mistakes we've found already by the so-called "experts"
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Curiosare for this useful post:
  #60  
Old 14.08.2021, 16:30
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Zurich
Posts: 30
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 22 Times in 13 Posts
Curiosare has earned some respectCuriosare has earned some respect
Re: To rent or not to rent?

Nidwalden it is then
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
rent fee for the rent starting at mid-month maldacena Housing in general 17 21.08.2014 17:54
Can you renegotiate rent if rent too high compared to market for area? Jakkals Housing in general 8 27.06.2013 07:27
House for rent for 1.5 to 2 years - what's the best to rent it??? Flower Housing in general 0 17.09.2008 17:55
Can I contest the change in rent [Dispute of initial rent] interplanet.janet Housing in general 8 11.01.2008 14:59
Hi! does anybody knows where to rent a Car B.AF.VIEW Transportation/driving 6 21.07.2007 09:35


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0