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  #21  
Old 26.08.2021, 11:44
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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Despite the temptations, none of these nuclear options like throwing her onto the street with her possessions, or surreptitiously changing the locks, are practical or reasonable.

The only realistic option IMO is to throw yourself into helping her find another apartment. If she's parked at your place free of charge then she doesn't have much incentive to find somewhere else in a hurry, so you need to get on the case too. Check Homegate.ch every day, and the other property rental sites. Make appointments for her to view. And if there's nothing in her price range, she will have to accept that she needs to change her criteria. By restricting her horizons to finding a (probably) non-existent nice apartment in the city for a low rent, she is essentially scheming to stay at your place indefinitely.

There's no god-given right to insist on living in central Zurich for little or no rent so you should extend the search slightly out of the city. Loads of us live along the lakeside and it takes only 20 minutes or less to get into Zurich by train from most popular towns.

As someone said, the other more drastic path might be to go to the police and/or the Gemeinde to get some advice and understand your options.
What a load of naive and fluffy bleeding heart bullcrap. He has already put time into helping her and if this girl doesn't want to leave and is being verbally and even physically abusive (spitting in his face, wtf) then the OP needs to get her out ASAP for their own safety and mental health before it escalates any further. She could call friends or family to stay with, or if she has none there are shelters to stay in. He 'owes' her jack shlt.

It's amazing how you just ignore the fact that this girl is being mentally and physically abusive to him and think that he somehow should put up with that despite only knowing her some short weeks. Yes, he was an idiot for letting her move into his place, but he would be more of an an idiot for letting her stay longer which she is actively trying to screw with his life.

Last edited by Chuff; 26.08.2021 at 11:55.
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  #22  
Old 26.08.2021, 11:45
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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This is certainly not an unusual development of a steamy online hook up. Often experienced it myself. It can be quite vexing and lead to serious logistical issues. For instance, while I’m already tiring of my current live-in homeless waif, the intermediate storage area (dungeon) is still occupied with the previous contender…


Regarding calling the police, I would be embarrassed.
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Old 26.08.2021, 11:51
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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Its a good idea, but it might be worth going to a police station and talking it through first to understand the law and what they might do if called because it will cause a scene. I think its unlikely they will force her out on the night, especially if she has nowhere to go because this sounds more like a domestic dispute, and cops are usually wary of getting involved in those because its 'he said, she said' e.g. she might say this is just an argument that got out of hand, since none of the times you asked her to leave are logged in written form.
On the other hand, domestic dispute has become a criminal offence liable to public prosecution = the police can no longer refuse to act once informed.

I agree, I'd talk to the police first, then organize the move out according to their advice. Including them in the process.
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Old 26.08.2021, 11:55
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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Despite the temptations, none of these nuclear options like throwing her onto the street with her possessions, or surreptitiously changing the locks, are practical or reasonable.

The only realistic option IMO is to engage with helping her find another apartment. If she's parked at your place free of charge then she doesn't have much incentive to find somewhere else in a hurry, so you need to get on the case too. Check Homegate.ch every day, and the other property rental sites. Make appointments for her to view. And if there's nothing in her price range, she will have to accept that she needs to change her criteria. By restricting her horizons to finding a (probably) non-existent nice apartment in the city for a low rent, she is essentially scheming to stay at your place indefinitely.

There's no god-given right to insist on living in central Zurich for little or no rent so you should extend the search slightly out of the city. Loads of us live along the lakeside and it takes only 20 minutes or less to get into Zurich by train from most popular towns.

As someone said, the other more drastic path might be to go to the police and/or the Gemeinde to get some advice and understand your options.
I have to disagree. This adds insult to injury. This matter should be dealt with swiftly and firmly. Castro’s gentlemanly suggestion could be a good solution to resolve the problem, albeit more charitable than what I would opt for.
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Old 26.08.2021, 11:57
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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What a load of naive and fluffy bleeding heart bullcrap. He has already put time into helping her and if this girl doesn't want to leave and is being verbally and even physically abusive (spitting in his face, wtf) then the OP needs to get her out ASAP for their own safety and mental health.

She could call friends or family to stay with, or if she has none there are shelters to stay in. He 'owes' her jack shlt.
In theory you are right, but in practice she could deny all of that and say that they had an agreement. He is the one behaving irrationally in asking her to move out all of a sudden.

If she is smart she will be more like this once the police arrive... and not the ranting, spitting monster the OP describes

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Old 26.08.2021, 11:59
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

Sounds like a professional manipulator. As komzomolez mentioned, people is ashamed of asking for help, so professionals are free to do what they want to do.

As others suggested, there's the police but they usually do not move a finger unless you call them while being attacked and she keeps doing stupid stuff until they arrive. But, there's also the mieterverband (renters association), they may have some advice to give.
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Old 26.08.2021, 12:04
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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In theory you are right, but in practice she could deny all of that and say that they had an agreement. He is the one behaving irrationally in asking her to move out all of a sudden.

If she is smart she will be more like this once the police arrive... and not the ranting, spitting monster the OP describes
He is not 'behaving irrationally by asking her to move out all of a sudden'. He is moving to protect himself from someone who is verbally and physically abusive and who refuses to leave his apartment now since weeks.

The police are not completely stupid or naive, they have likely seen this situation MANY times before and they know how nicely people behave when they visit.

There is no point in engaging in this wishy washy "but what if" speculative nonsense. If he is at his wits end then he just needs to go the police station asap and lay out his entire story, including the verbal and physical attacks, before they visit her. These kinds of situations need decisive action, not ineffectual hand-wringing.

Last edited by Chuff; 26.08.2021 at 12:16.
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Old 26.08.2021, 12:05
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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Love that look - standard in our household
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Old 26.08.2021, 12:23
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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Not obviously a dupe account, then only 1 post has been made & nobody shares the IP address. Definitely not posted from McDonald's or Starbucks !
Clever puppetmasters use VPNs.
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Old 26.08.2021, 12:27
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

What do you think your guest's version of the story would be? We have only your version, and no mention of their perspective. Not to say what's right or wrong, just to try to understand what has happened, and is happening in a more 3D fashion.
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Old 26.08.2021, 12:41
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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What a load of naive and fluffy bleeding heart bullcrap. He has already put time into helping her and if this girl doesn't want to leave and is being verbally and even physically abusive (spitting in his face, wtf) then the OP needs to get her out ASAP for their own safety and mental health before it escalates any further. She could call friends or family to stay with, or if she has none there are shelters to stay in. He 'owes' her jack shlt.

It's amazing how you just ignore the fact that this girl is being mentally and physically abusive to him and think that he somehow should put up with that despite only knowing her some short weeks. Yes, he was an idiot for letting her move into his place, but he would be more of an an idiot for letting her stay longer which she is actively trying to screw with his life.
With respect [cough], although we've only one side of the story, I'm not ignoring 'the facts' as they're stated here. He needs her to leave ASAP and I've made a suggestion of how that can be achieved, as long as she accepts that she has to be more realistic about where to live. If she doesn't accept that then I see no option other than going to the police or Gemeinde for assistance.

Frothy-mouthed, angry people like you seem to see the world in very black and white, over-simplistic terms. Some of the popular options here like throwing her into the street followed by her possessions, is the sort of thing you see in movies but it's really not practical or wise.
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  #32  
Old 26.08.2021, 12:42
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

Tangentially, there are apartments for people that cannot rent through the usual way (showing a job contract, being clean on the debt collection register, living out social aid, etc). I cannot remember the name but I lived before in front of those apartment buildings. It was just a carnival and police showed up once or twice a week to deal with my ex-neighbors, but.....they are not freezing under a bridge.

So, don't be afraid of kicking out someone to the street, there are options. Anyone knows the name of these emergency apartments in German?
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  #33  
Old 26.08.2021, 12:49
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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Regarding calling the police, I would be embarrassed.
How about we don't do that? Imagine if the roles were reversed, the intruder male and the OP female, would you tell her that you would be embarrassed? Regardless of gender, the OP feels unsafe and is at a loss what to do. I'm pretty cynical and would not put it past someone who sounds unstable to fake the OP abusing her in order the get sympathy from the police. So it would be judicious to have a chat with them as to what to do and avoid landing in hot water.

Castro's solution strikes me as the most reasonable, except the changing the locks part, unless he owns the property he can't really go ahead with that without the landlord's permission. Presumably, she only has the one key, which he can ask to be returned and if she refuses, I'm sure the police will convince her that she should do so.
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Old 26.08.2021, 13:14
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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Sounds like a professional manipulator. As komzomolez mentioned, people is ashamed of asking for help, so professionals are free to do what they want to do.

As others suggested, there's the police but they usually do not move a finger unless you call them while being attacked and she keeps doing stupid stuff until they arrive. But, there's also the mieterverband (renters association), they may have some advice to give.
Not true. Once I had the unfortunate situation of a no-longer welcomed guest not wanting to leave. To avoid physical confrontation, I called the police. They escorted the person out, after confirming I was the registered occupant of the place and the unwelcome guest was not.
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Old 26.08.2021, 13:26
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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A slightly more gentlemanly option would be to invite her out for dinner to talk about the situation and tell her why you want her out. Whilst that is happening a friend goes to your appartment, changes the locks, packs her stuff and then takes it to a hotel room which has been paid for 2 days.

At the end of your dinner you tell her that she has been moved out, her key won't work and she has 2 days to find somewhere else. Its less confrontational and jarring than the other option.

Good luck!
This is a really good plan !
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Old 26.08.2021, 13:29
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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Not true. Once I had the unfortunate situation of a no-longer welcomed guest not wanting to leave. To avoid physical confrontation, I called the police. They escorted the person out, after confirming I was the registered occupant of the place and the unwelcome guest was not.
That's helpful. So, what are the keywords in German OP must tell the police? How the story should be told to get the result?
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Old 26.08.2021, 13:29
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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To cut a long story short, it's now been 6 weeks, half of the time we have spent together has been pleasant, and the other half of the time I have been subjected to; verbal abuse, harassment over a non-existent girlfriend, and a couple of episodes where she has repeatedly spat in my face. It has got to the point where I can't go to work or socialise with friends without coming home to accusations and harassment.
By the way, does it mean that half the time you still enjoy intense time together ?
Maybe she is just not getting pleased enough and hence funnels excess of energy into verbal abuse ?
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Old 26.08.2021, 13:33
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

2 "risks" you need to consider:

1) Make sure in those "pleasant" moments you resist any urge to sleep with her. You don't want to be on the hook for a kid with an unstable woman......think 18 years of child support.

2) Do NOT engage in any arguments with her. In today's feminist gynocentric society, she can make a simple phone call to the police claiming that you hit/threatened/abused her and you will be guilty until proven innocent.

Simply call the police, explain the situation, tell them you don't want any issues (as in point 2) and get them to expel her.

Best of luck. Would have been cheaper/less hassle for you to go to Langstrasse or an FKK club!
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  #39  
Old 26.08.2021, 14:07
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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2 "risks" you need to consider:

1) Make sure in those "pleasant" moments you resist any urge to sleep with her. You don't want to be on the hook for a kid with an unstable woman......think 18 years of child support.

2) Do NOT engage in any arguments with her. In today's feminist gynocentric society, she can make a simple phone call to the police claiming that you hit/threatened/abused her and you will be guilty until proven innocent.

Simply call the police, explain the situation, tell them you don't want any issues (as in point 2) and get them to expel her.

Best of luck. Would have been cheaper/less hassle for you to go to Langstrasse or an FKK club!
1) Rubber up. Goes without saying.
2) Agree with the no arguments part but the rest is just utter nonsense perpetuated by people who can't deal with no longer getting a free pass on terrible behaviour. Look at the actual data, the incidences of false accusations are incredibly rare and convictions based on false claims almost non-existent. It is also usually a certain type of person with certain motivations who will make such a fake claim. By the way, the percentage of false accusations/reports of abuse are roughly the same as for any other type of crime, e.g. theft or burglary. Rather than painting these (very rare) false claims as an organised feminist attack on men, such accusations are better explained by some people being attention-seeking manipulators.

You know what is not rare? Women not reporting abuse because they either think nobody will believe them or don't see the point of putting themselves through the ordeal. And then there are those who have been brainwashed into believing it is all their fault and that the partner will stop abusing them if they only try harder to please him. I am fully aware that there are male victims of this too and they obviously deserve to be heard too.

Because the OP's guest fits the pattern of the sort of person who might fake abuse to get her way, it is important for him to get ahead of her doing so by contacting the police. No need to dive into the misogynist agenda, this particular woman is a problem but she is not representative of all women.
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Old 26.08.2021, 14:16
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

A slightly less gentlemanly but more fair treatment of the young lady would be :

1) Bring her along to the next EF Superspreader event

2) buy some of her new found friends a couple of drinks and hope that they consider the downsides worth the upsides
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