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Old 26.08.2021, 14:36
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

Thanks for all the responses, I'm definitely in favour of the more measured suggestions from Castro and Pachyderm. As a burly English man who has already struggled to integrate into the local neighbourhood, the last thing I need is a scene with a seemingly innocent young girl and a police van. But I offered to put her up in an Airbnb for a week and she laugh hysterically in my face, so its seeming like a public scene is unavoidable.

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What do you think your guest's version of the story would be? We have only your version, and no mention of their perspective. Not to say what's right or wrong, just to try to understand what has happened, and is happening in a more 3D fashion.
I imagine that her side of the story would be that I'm an older man taking advantage of her desperate situation in exchange for sex.

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Not true. Once I had the unfortunate situation of a no-longer welcomed guest not wanting to leave. To avoid physical confrontation, I called the police. They escorted the person out, after confirming I was the registered occupant of the place and the unwelcome guest was not.
It would be great to hear more about how you organised this.
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  #42  
Old 26.08.2021, 14:43
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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Thanks for all the responses, I'm definitely in favour of the more measured suggestions from Castro and Pachyderm. As a burly English man who has already struggled to integrate into the local neighbourhood, the last thing I need is a scene with a seemingly innocent young girl and a police van. But I offered to put her up in an Airbnb for a week and she laugh hysterically in my face, so its seeming like a public scene is unavoidable.



I imagine that her side of the story would be that I'm an older man taking advantage of her desperate situation in exchange for sex.



It would be great to hear more about how you organised this.
Called 112 and told them I have a guest who got verbally abusive and does not want to leave. That's it. As the owner of the place you have the right to decide who stays there.
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  #43  
Old 26.08.2021, 14:46
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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Thanks for all the responses, I'm definitely in favour of the more measured suggestions from Castro and Pachyderm. As a burly English man who has already struggled to integrate into the local neighbourhood, the last thing I need is a scene with a seemingly innocent young girl and a police van. But I offered to put her up in an Airbnb for a week and she laugh hysterically in my face, so its seeming like a public scene is unavoidable.
That way you're rewarding her abusive behaviour. You're simply kicking the can down the road and open the door for her to repeat her spiel with the next man.

You have no reason to play nice (any longer). The quickest way to stop this is by getting the police for help and report her if possible. Having recorded her being abusive wouldn't hurt, just to demonstrate you're not making this up, just to make sure she can't turn the situation against you, but it may be a little late for that.
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  #44  
Old 26.08.2021, 15:26
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

Man up ffs. Call the police and say she is an unwelcome guest. If you are clever you would record a situation beforehand where she is being a c**t so at least you can defend your reputation.
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  #45  
Old 26.08.2021, 15:26
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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a burly English man
innocent young girl
sex.
Love it
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  #46  
Old 26.08.2021, 15:44
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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With respect [cough], although we've only one side of the story.
Regarding abusive behavior, as well as sexual harassment you do not need to hear the other side of the story. When ones claims he/she is being abused/harassed, so it is, full stop.

How to stop abuses? Usually with physical distance between the two, usually by removing from the household the one that is committing the perceived abuse.

It's not a car accident or similar, there is no need to hear the other side of the story.

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I offered to put her up in an Airbnb for a week and she laugh hysterically in my face, so its seeming like a public scene is unavoidable.
You are risking a lot, the more she stays in your flat the more she will manipulate you, up to the point she may build up a good case where you kidnapped her to abuse her. Be very careful, call the police asap, who gives a shit about the public scene, the neighbours* are already talking about the crazy guy who has a new noisy girlfriend (yes, you are the crazy guy), so either have the public scene now or be subject of the next blick.ch bizarre case.



* you are in Switzerland, the neighbours always-always-always know more than they need, (but less than they would like), about you!
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  #47  
Old 26.08.2021, 15:45
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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That way you're rewarding her abusive behaviour. You're simply kicking the can down the road and open the door for her to repeat her spiel with the next man.

You have no reason to play nice (any longer). The quickest way to stop this is by getting the police for help and report her if possible. Having recorded her being abusive wouldn't hurt, just to demonstrate you're not making this up, just to make sure she can't turn the situation against you, but it may be a little late for that.
Would hurt!!
<< «Wer als Gesprächsteilnehmer ein nichtöffentliches Gespräch, ohne die Einwilligung der anderen daran Beteiligten, auf einen Tonträger aufnimmt, könne mit einer Freiheitsstrafe von bis zu einem Jahr oder mit einer Geldstrafe bestraft werden.>>
A person who, as a participant in a conversation, records a non-public conversation on a sound recording without the consent of the other participants in the conversation may be punished with a custodial sentence of up to one year or with a monetary penalty.

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Man up ffs. Call the police and say she is an unwelcome guest. If you are clever you would record a situation beforehand where she is being a c**t so at least you can defend your reputation.
Seriously, folks. Stop giving such unqualified advice.
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  #48  
Old 26.08.2021, 15:57
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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Regarding abusive behavior, as well as sexual harassment you do not need to hear the other side of the story. When ones claims he/she is being abused/harassed, so it is, full stop.

How to stop abuses? Usually with physical distance between the two, usually by removing from the household the one that is committing the perceived abuse.

It's not a car accident or similar, there is no need to hear the other side of the story.

Of course there is. This is the internet, not real life. It's entirely reasonable to ask someone posting such a 1-sided story, what the other party would say about things (NB no compulsion to think either perspective is ok, right or reasonable).


It's unnatural to post such a biased account, and indicative of filtering info. When we tell stories, we typically include 3D bits of info, without thinking about it.


The 1D aspect of this might indicate emotive posting, and, when we're flooded with emotions, we tend to speak in extremes, which don't help us.
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  #49  
Old 26.08.2021, 16:36
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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2 "risks" you need to consider:

1) Make sure in those "pleasant" moments you resist any urge to sleep with her. You don't want to be on the hook for a kid with an unstable woman......think 18 years of child support.

2) Do NOT engage in any arguments with her. In today's feminist gynocentric society, she can make a simple phone call to the police claiming that you hit/threatened/abused her and you will be guilty until proven innocent.

Simply call the police, explain the situation, tell them you don't want any issues (as in point 2) and get them to expel her.

Best of luck. Would have been cheaper/less hassle for you to go to Langstrasse or an FKK club!

Re 1, why not fault him, too? Isn't this whole scenario, inclusive of his role in it, very rushed and suggestive of instability and a potential attachment disorder or several on both people's parts? Why fault just her? Why would anyone think either of these people would make a good parent, based on this story? Or have you swallowed the "I'm innocent and just trying to help" line without question?



Re 2, can you please substantiate this? We have women's shelters being closed, violated by men, and subject to vandalism when we refuse men entry to them right now, not to mention extremely limited ways in which we can help women and children get out of dangerous home situations right now, owing to governments restricting the numbers of people allowed in shelters. We also have the problem of men demanding access to our changing rooms and toilets, demanding to be housed amongst vulnerable female prisoners, then proceeding to attack and rape women, demanding their abhorrent crimes be recorded in our women's crime stat's, and stealing educational, financial, economic and sporting opportunities from women. Now dare tell us we're even living a moderately good life in a world designed by men for men, where men are not satisfied with having the majority of the cake; they want to take the crumbs we get away from us, too.
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  #50  
Old 26.08.2021, 16:41
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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Of course there is. This is the internet, not real life. It's entirely reasonable to ask someone posting such a 1-sided story, what the other party would say about things (NB no compulsion to think either perspective is ok, right or reasonable).
If this unwanted guest is how the OP described her, what do you think she's going to say?

We had this in the U.K. with a German girl we knew who had been like this before. This time she wanted to stay for a few days, then a week and then with a bit more digging, it turned out she wanted to stay for few months -rent-free in our spare room.

Luckily I saw sense (she had habits which suggested she was like this) and said she couldn't come and stay and she got quite abusive on the phone.

If you had asked her what her side of the story was - I can guarantee it would not have matched ours!
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  #51  
Old 26.08.2021, 16:43
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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Re 2, can you please substantiate this? We have women's shelters being closed, violated by men, and subject to vandalism when we refuse men entry to them right now, not to mention extremely limited ways in which we can help women and children get out of dangerous home situations right now, owing to governments restricting the numbers of people allowed in shelters. We also have the problem of men demanding access to our changing rooms and toilets, demanding to be housed amongst vulnerable female prisoners, then proceeding to attack and rape women, demanding their abhorrent crimes be recorded in our women's crime stat's, and stealing educational, financial, economic and sporting opportunities from women. Now dare tell us we're even living a moderately good life in a world designed by men for men, where men are not satisfied with having the majority of the cake; they want to take the crumbs we get away from us, too.
While I might not agree with what Brian1985 had written, please don't turn this into a men against women thing.
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  #52  
Old 26.08.2021, 16:46
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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Hi All,

I've found myself in a bit of a pickle and I would welcome any advice you might have.

I met a girl through a dating platform 6 weeks ago, we shared an intense couple of days together and seemingly bonded very quickly. After about a week she mentioned being in-between flat rentals, I spent a lot of time alone during the pandemic, so I foolishly agreed to letting her move in with me temporarily while she continued searching for a new flat.

To cut a long story short, it's now been 6 weeks, half of the time we have spent together has been pleasant, and the other half of the time I have been subjected to; verbal abuse, harassment over a non-existent girlfriend, and a couple of episodes where she has repeatedly spat in my face. It has got to the point where I can't go to work or socialise with friends without coming home to accusations and harassment.

I have asked her to leave multiple times but she claims to have no where to go, she isn't registered at my flat with the Gemeinde, and there is no sublease contract. I'm at a complete loss as to what to do with her, any advice would be appreciated.
Is this person in the country legally?
  • If yes, she is free to go her own way and live wherever else in Switzerland she chooses.
  • If no, then she should not be helped, by you or anyone, to stay here illegally, but should either return to a country in which she will be legal, or should set about obtaining a legal status to be here. But not at your expense.

Is she earning any money and/or does she have any savings?
  • If yes, she can pay for her own hostel, AirBnb, WG-room (see wgzimmer.ch), etc. while she is looking for accommodation.
  • If no, then, if she is in Switzerland legally (see above), she can apply to the social services for immediate support. It won't be easy, but she is likely to be given immediate support so she doesn't have to sleep on the street, e.g. at an emergency hostel.

Whichever is the case, you, OP, are not responsible for it.

In any case, I suggest you put all your possessions that mean something to you, whether sentimentally or cost-wise, in a safe place, either in a locked, strong cupboard in your apartment, or in a suitcase locked away in your neighbour's flat, or in your office. I say this because you don't want to risk anything being trashed.

Mail/message her to say that, as you already told her on DATE, DATE and DATE, she must move out of your place. Say that this is serious and that she must go.

You could go, in person, to a police station to ask the police for advice:
  • Tell them what is going on, including that she spat in your face and you don't want her there, and she has no agreement with you that she may stay, and that you have told her to leave (both spoken and in writing). Tell them that you have intend to send her a final warning to leave, and ask whethe, if she does not go, they would remove her, and which number you should to call., for that.
  • If you have had access to it, make a photo of her ID document or something which reflects who she is.
  • Show them your draft of a "Hausverbot", and ask them whether it is correctly done.
  • Ask them what you should do with her bags, if she does not take them with her or does not pick them up from you, and whether Castro's suggestion of paying for a hotel for a night or two, and then dropping off the bags there, is legal.

Depending on your relationship with the landlord and/or the caretaker of your building, you could ask them to help you change the locks, and say that you will pay for their help. That might be cheaper than your buying the whole lock system, because caretakers sometimes have a certain stock, which they switch around, from one door to another.

Having been to the police, and possibly spoken to your landlord/caretaker write to her again saying that you are now setting her a final deadline of TIME (a time in the day, not midnight) on DATE, max. 24 hours from now, by which all of her things must be removed from your flat.

Once you've sent that to her (and told her, to her face, if she happens to be with you, just then), do not leave your apartment in this last phase. Ideally, invite over friends the neighbours (who know what is going on) for a meal, or to watch a movie, or to play boardgames, but in any case to stay and stay, so that you are not alone with her, ever again.

If she has not moved her things out by the 23rd hour
  • if she is out, you pack her things. Put them outside of your apartment, but not on the street. Label them clearly with her name.
  • if she is in your place, tell her that she now has one more hour, after which you will call the police to come.

Send her another message, that she and her things must be out by the end of the next hour.

Change the lock immediately. Ideally with the help of your caretaker, who may be good enough to change the lock on the front door of the building, too, such that it will still work for all other neighbours, but no longer for the key she has. Otherwise, if just for your own flat, be sure you know how to do this, beforehand, or pay someone to come and do it, at the appointed time.

If she returns to fetch the things, do not let her into the flat, at all, not even if she says she needs to go to the toilet. Just stand your ground and say no. If you fear going soft-hearted, send your friend out, instead, to meet her at the door of the building with her bags, and to say that you are unavailable.

With her bags, hand over to her the written "Hausverbot", on paper.

If she does not just take her bags and go
  • if she is in the apartment but won't budge, call the police. Refer, in your call, the the advice you were given by officer NAME, who told you what to say when you call.
  • if she is not in the appartment, you could do some of the nice things that Castro suggested, such as paying for a hostel or AirBnb for one night, and have her things delivered there.... depending on what the police advised you about her bags (see above).

Do not, ever again, open the door to her.
Block her contact on your phone or, if she persists, get a new phone number.


All or any of the above will be of any use only if you have decided, for the sake of your own mental health and physical safety, to have no further contact with her, at all.

Last edited by doropfiz; 27.08.2021 at 08:43. Reason: fixing last sentence, the word of caution
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  #53  
Old 26.08.2021, 16:49
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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While I might not agree with what Brian1985 had written, please don't turn this into a men against women thing.
If you read carefully and remember the other, very similar posts that were made, it's actually very thinly veiled rampant transphobia.
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  #54  
Old 26.08.2021, 17:06
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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Regarding calling the police, I would be embarrassed.
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How about we don't do that? Imagine if the roles were reversed, the intruder male and the OP female, would you tell her that you would be embarrassed?
Well, but they are not.
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Old 26.08.2021, 17:10
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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If you read carefully and remember the other, very similar posts that were made, it's actually very thinly veiled rampant transphobia.
What?
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Old 26.08.2021, 17:22
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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Would hurt!!
<< «Wer als Gesprächsteilnehmer ein nichtöffentliches Gespräch, ohne die Einwilligung der anderen daran Beteiligten, auf einen Tonträger aufnimmt, könne mit einer Freiheitsstrafe von bis zu einem Jahr oder mit einer Geldstrafe bestraft werden.>>
A person who, as a participant in a conversation, records a non-public conversation on a sound recording without the consent of the other participants in the conversation may be punished with a custodial sentence of up to one year or with a monetary penalty.
You can't shoot people nilly-willy, yet it can be lawful in certain extreme situations.

The same principle applies here.
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Old 26.08.2021, 17:24
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

Jesus wept!
Seriously (and I’m not advocating domestic violence here), how difficult can it be (for a multiple spat-in-the-face, burly Englishman) to convince a (meanwhile) unwelcome female sleepover (of short acquaintance, innocent appearance and wildly hysterical demeanour) to surrender her keys, pack her bags and leave?


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Re 2, can you please substantiate this? We have women's shelters being closed, violated by men, and subject to vandalism when we refuse men entry to them right now, not to mention extremely limited ways in which we can help women and children get out of dangerous home situations right now, owing to governments restricting the numbers of people allowed in shelters. We also have the problem of men demanding access to our changing rooms and toilets, demanding to be housed amongst vulnerable female prisoners, then proceeding to attack and rape women, demanding their abhorrent crimes be recorded in our women's crime stat's, and stealing educational, financial, economic and sporting opportunities from women. Now dare tell us we're even living a moderately good life in a world designed by men for men, where men are not satisfied with having the majority of the cake; they want to take the crumbs we get away from us, too.
Perhaps the OP’s hesitancy to act as in fairly normal circumstances is driven by heeding such denunciations as above. Men are obviously the root of all evil – go American and shoot the bastardesses*!



*this would include those tricky fluid gender flag waving whatevers invading your private spaces…
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Old 26.08.2021, 17:30
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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You can't shoot people nilly-willy, yet it can be lawful in certain extreme situations.

The same principle applies here.
Never.
In Switzerland.

All participants must agree. Who knows, she might?
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  #59  
Old 26.08.2021, 17:36
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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Never.
In Switzerland.

All participants must agree. Who knows, she might?
So the police act illegaly when they flash you from ahead you for speeding.

Quick, you need to tell them immediately!
Otherwise people will report them for their illegal behaviour!

Also, the video clip of the Gymi pupils who destroyed that fancy PlexiglasBrunnen in Winterthur was completely illegal, let alone the police when they made public in order to catch the culprits!
The list could go on endlessly.

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Old 26.08.2021, 18:38
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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So the police act illegaly when they flash you from ahead you for speeding.

Quick, you need to tell them immediately!
Otherwise people will report them for their illegal behaviour!

Also, the video clip of the Gymi pupils who destroyed that fancy PlexiglasBrunnen in Winterthur was completely illegal, let alone the police when they made public in order to catch the culprits!
The list could go on endlessly.

Recording as a form of self defense is legal and the recording is accepted in court.
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