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  #101  
Old 04.09.2021, 16:51
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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Great news. And now back onto Tinder.

It would be great being able to write the Tinder experience review otherwise she will end up hunting another victim.
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  #102  
Old 04.09.2021, 17:04
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

What if she doesn't vacate the place that you booked after 5 days? What if she damages the place? I would say you should better inform the landlord of the place that you booked for her - of course via police. Don't keep any communication lines open for her to contact you in any way. Block her on your phone, social media and report her profile to Tinder.
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  #103  
Old 04.09.2021, 17:13
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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What if she doesn't vacate the place that you booked after 5 days? What if she damages the place? I would say you should better inform the landlord of the place that you booked for her - of course via police. Don't keep any communication lines open for her to contact you in any way. Block her on your phone, social media and report her profile to Tinder.
Hmmm, that's a thought. OP should just pay for the five days ahead (if he hasn't already) and tell the owner "nach mir die Sintflut".
(Found no translation I liked but OP lives in Zurich)
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  #104  
Old 04.09.2021, 17:31
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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It would be great being able to write the Tinder experience review otherwise she will end up hunting another victim.
what would you write ? Excellent sex, but tough character ?
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  #105  
Old 04.09.2021, 18:21
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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Putting into the Tinder profile: "Nur Frauen mit festem Wohnsitz" (only woman with permanent abode) might be a good idea.
That still wouldn't keep them from moving in.

Tom
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  #106  
Old 04.09.2021, 18:45
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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what would you write ? Excellent sex, but tough character ?
Fast growing roots. Bamboo type.
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  #107  
Old 04.09.2021, 20:05
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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next????
We won't hear about it.
But there's a chance that she's already hooking up with the next guy, whom she'll tell in a few days that she's in between flat rentals and can she perhaps move in with him.

Rinse and repeat.
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  #108  
Old 05.09.2021, 00:31
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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I'm surprised no one's suggested calling the police. Since you've asked her to leave several times and she's refused, she's trespassing as well as being physically abusive.
I would just wait for 2200 oclock and claim she is making Noise
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  #109  
Old 05.09.2021, 07:14
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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Unfortunately I was reeled back into another few days of the good times...which obviously ended with another period of abusive behaviour.
Really very sorry to read what you’ve been through.

Question though…. You know that this person is unbalanced and abusive towards you, so why did you pick up the relationship again?

Isn’t that just messing with her mind?

When a situation is awful, don’t go looking for more trouble.
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  #110  
Old 05.09.2021, 08:12
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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But there's a chance that she's already hooking up with the next guy, whom she'll tell in a few days that she's in between flat rentals and can she perhaps move in...
That's what I meant. She's already on to the next mark. Why doesn't she just advertise as a live-in dominatrix?

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  #111  
Old 05.09.2021, 08:57
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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To have sex after spending some time together. This is what human beings do.
Yes but there is a difference between that and allowing someone to move in.
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  #112  
Old 05.09.2021, 09:14
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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Yes but there is a difference between that and allowing someone to move in.
Manipulative people can be extremely good at convincing you.

They make a life out of it.
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  #113  
Old 05.09.2021, 09:27
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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Of course, you have to decide what you'll do, for yourself. If I were in that situation I would absolutely and uncompromisingly block that person from every part of my life.

While you still know where she is, in these 5 days while she is staying in accommodation you booked for her, I recommend that you issue a Hausverbot. This is a written document, to be delivered to her, stating that she may not come to your home. Never again, under any circumstances. It states the reason (formulated factually, not emotionally): because
  • you spat in my face repeatedly on at least DATE, DATE and DATE
  • you hit me on DATE and DATE, and also
  • you did not leave my apartment, even though I asked you to leave on at least DATE, DATE and DATE,
  • on DATE you punched me, spat in my face and scratched me, so that I called the police for urgent help, and they came to my home and took photos of what you had done,
  • you left only when I called the police.

I would include, in that document, that:
  • she may not contact you by phone, mail, post, nor social media, nor in any other way at all, ever;
  • she may not send you a message through a third party,
  • she is forbidden from coming anywhere where you work and from trying to contact you there,
  • she is not allowed to speak to you in any place, including any public place,
  • were she ever to encounter you, at any place, she is to maintain at least 100m from you;
and that
  • this prohibition is permanent and irrevocable,
  • you reserve the right, were she ever to contravene any of these restrictions, to involve the police and the law.
Seriously? All that to threaten her with calling the police - which he already did?
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  #114  
Old 05.09.2021, 10:23
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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What if she doesn't vacate the place that you booked after 5 days? What if she damages the place? I would say you should better inform the landlord of the place that you booked for her - of course via police. Don't keep any communication lines open for her to contact you in any way. Block her on your phone, social media and report her profile to Tinder.
This was definitely a concern, I paid for the booking under her name.

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Really very sorry to read what you’ve been through.

Question though…. You know that this person is unbalanced and abusive towards you, so why did you pick up the relationship again?

Isn’t that just messing with her mind?

When a situation is awful, don’t go looking for more trouble.
It wasn't a case of picking up the relationship again, I had asked her to leave on multiple occasions, and we had agreed dates which she would leave by, but at each deadline there was a reason why she couldn't leave. Rather than live in constant strife, I welcomed her good mood whilst keeping the advice from this thread in mind. But yes, this wasn't a good idea in retrospect, especially since the outbursts were escalating after each cycle.
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  #115  
Old 05.09.2021, 11:07
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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Seriously? All that to threaten her with calling the police - which he already did?
Yes, because calling the police again is much more serious than calling the police just once.

Besides, calling the police to any situation which could be [mis-]interpreted as a mere spat (oh, dear literally, in this case) between lovers always carries a certain risk, for the victim, of not being believed.

Breaking a Hausverbot, on the other hand, is a specific offence for which there is provision for punishment in the law. (Perhaps someone will look up and link to the law for OP.) A Hausverbot is much less open to interpretation: if the offender crossed the line, it is done. The will of the victim (= wanting no contact whatsoever) is proven by the document. It also makes it completely clear about which party is prohibiting further contact.

This means that a person who has issued a Hausverbot acquires a much stronger legal basis for any subsequent complaint they may ever need to make. That's a big step up, in authority, from just asking someone to leave and hoping they will.

The police know this and will react accordingly.

The Hausverbot should be worded formally and delivered to the person or to where they live. It is sufficient to ask the concierge at the hotel or landlord at the AirBnB to give it to her in person. Even better if they can later confirm that they have done so.

Of course, keep your own copy.

This is a safety net for the victim, and a fairly good (though not completely robust, of course) protection against the perpetrator ever even getting close enough to abuse the victim again.

In the face of such abuse as has already been perpetrated, I would not hesitate to issue a Hausverbot, and do so fast, before her 5 days are over.
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  #116  
Old 05.09.2021, 11:33
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

The woman is out. OP got his key back. The problem is solved.

She can not trespass (doesn't need a Hausverbot) as she has no key. If OP opens the door for her again - well he should ask for help at a more professional place than EF after that.

Numbers and email addresses can be blocked on any item these days.
She seemed more interested in a place to stay than in OP and OP turned out to be a bad choice (from her point of view too )

Next Tinder date when it gets to the point "your place or mine" OP should definitely answer "yours".
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  #117  
Old 05.09.2021, 11:33
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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Rather than live in constant strife, I welcomed her good mood whilst keeping the advice from this thread in mind.
Translated as: "When she was being nice I also had the opportunity to still get laid and then the thread advice and thoughts of self-preservation were quickly put aside."
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  #118  
Old 05.09.2021, 12:37
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

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The woman is out. OP got his key back. The problem is solved.

She can not trespass (doesn't need a Hausverbot) as she has no key. If OP opens the door for her again - well he should ask for help at a more professional place than EF after that.

Numbers and email addresses can be blocked on any item these days.
She seemed more interested in a place to stay than in OP and OP turned out to be a bad choice (from her point of view too )
Yes, she is out... for now. And yes, she doesn't need a Hausverbot. But he may and I recommend it. The fact that she's gone, now, doesn't stop her hanging around outside his building or going to his place of work to bother him there. She can, indeed, trespass, if someone else in either building lets her in, and then he'll have to start again, in the stairwell, to try to get rid of her.

I agree about blocking all the channels of contact that he now has with her and he should do so, fully. She, however, can just use a new one that she makes, to contact him, again, if ever she decided he was a better option for a place to stay than any other she might subsequently find, or not.

As a sad, general (but not immutable) rule, people who resort to physical violence tend to do so again, later, perhaps with a new victim, and sometimes they return to the same victim. A person who hits or spits, hits and spits again. This perpetrator has demonstrated that, already.

As said, there are good reasons to set the legal basis. It makes the victim's position much stronger, just in case the perpetrator ever returns. And there are good emotional ones, too, in that the process of thinking through whether or not to issue a Hausverbot and, if yes, of writing it out and delivering it, can be part of what helps a victim figure out whether they
  1. really do want no further contact or are prepared to risk a rollercoaster of drama and abuse, and
  2. are naive enough to imagine that, were they ever see the perpetrator again, things would be nice and peaceful.
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  #119  
Old 07.09.2021, 09:35
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Re: Verbally abusive house guest who refuses to leave

Also, a Hausverbot will keep the OP's genitals from overriding common sense.

The sex must have been pretty good though....

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I think this misses self-analysis, that'd be important for you to work on, in order to not repeat this in future. It feels like you still see yourself as a victim of circumstances, as opposed to someone who made poor choices that you could avoid in future. I'd suggest you need to get to the bottom of the role you willingly played here, which started long before there was conflict (again, just to try to avoid things like this in future). The questions I think require some work are:
  1. Why did you welcome this stranger into your home?
  2. What's going on in your life and mindset, that you thought moving this stranger into your home would be a good idea?
  3. Why didn't you have safeguards in place, guiding you?
We all have stuff to work through (me, you, her, everyone here posting), so you're not alone in having stuff to improve "next time".
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Yes, she is out... for now. And yes, she doesn't need a Hausverbot. But he may and I recommend it. The fact that she's gone, now, doesn't stop her hanging around outside his building or going to his place of work to bother him there. She can, indeed, trespass, if someone else in either building lets her in, and then he'll have to start again, in the stairwell, to try to get rid of her.

I agree about blocking all the channels of contact that he now has with her and he should do so, fully. She, however, can just use a new one that she makes, to contact him, again, if ever she decided he was a better option for a place to stay than any other she might subsequently find, or not.

As a sad, general (but not immutable) rule, people who resort to physical violence tend to do so again, later, perhaps with a new victim, and sometimes they return to the same victim. A person who hits or spits, hits and spits again. This perpetrator has demonstrated that, already.

As said, there are good reasons to set the legal basis. It makes the victim's position much stronger, just in case the perpetrator ever returns. And there are good emotional ones, too, in that the process of thinking through whether or not to issue a Hausverbot and, if yes, of writing it out and delivering it, can be part of what helps a victim figure out whether they
  1. really do want no further contact or are prepared to risk a rollercoaster of drama and abuse, and
  2. are naive enough to imagine that, were they ever see the perpetrator again, things would be nice and peaceful.
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