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  #21  
Old 12.10.2021, 12:59
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Re: cleaning company failed handover guarantee and refused to compensate the cost

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If you go to court and win, then your record can be deleted. If you think you have little chance to win, you can pay the money to Betreibungs and then let them to delete your record. I think people should know this procedure, to protect themselves from threats. I recently came to this unpleasant case, and finally it turned out to be a happy ending ..
A payment of a Betreibung does not mean it gets removed. This only happens if the partie who initiated it agrees.

Further just because it is deleted doesnt mean it really is.
A Betreibungsauszug will still show the number of Betreibungen that have been initiated against you within the last 5 years just not by whom.
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  #22  
Old 12.10.2021, 13:07
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Re: cleaning company failed handover guarantee and refused to compensate the cost

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A payment of a Betreibung does not mean it gets removed. This only happens if the partie who initiated it agrees.

Further just because it is deleted doesnt mean it really is.
A Betreibungsauszug will still show the number of Betreibungen that have been initiated against you within the last 5 years just not by whom.
Even I won the court, it still cannot be removed??? This is an interesting system if it works like this...
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  #23  
Old 12.10.2021, 13:08
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Re: cleaning company failed handover guarantee and refused to compensate the cost

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A payment of a Betreibung does not mean it gets removed. This only happens if the partie who initiated it agrees.

Further just because it is deleted doesnt mean it really is.
A Betreibungsauszug will still show the number of Betreibungen that have been initiated against you within the last 5 years just not by whom.
Precisely - it is an ugly process that can cause years of misery for small infractions.

If you feel the Betreibung is unjust, the second best plan is always to try and negotiate a settlement with the party you owe money to. Failing that, suck it up, unfortunately.

The best plan is just to pay on time.

When you go to the Betreibungsamt, you can always tell your side of the story (ideally with some evidence) and tell them you reject the Betreibung. They will then go back to the issuer and if you are lucky the case may be dropped.

I had this when I switched car insurance - the last insurer, Zurich, sent me a Betreibung for 4000 odd chf despite me leaving and having other insurance. I took the new insurance certificate to the Betreibungsamt, they contacted Zurich and the whole matter was dropped.
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  #24  
Old 12.10.2021, 13:09
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Re: cleaning company failed handover guarantee and refused to compensate the cost

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Even I won the court, it still cannot be removed??? This is an interesting system if it works like this...
With the greatest respect, if you are saying "if", you would appear not to be an authority on the process and should perhaps refrain from giving advice?
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  #25  
Old 12.10.2021, 13:12
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Re: cleaning company failed handover guarantee and refused to compensate the cost

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Even I won the court, it still cannot be removed??? This is an interesting system if it works like this...
My posting is about paying a Betreibung.
If you win in court you wouldnt have to pay...
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  #26  
Old 12.10.2021, 13:27
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Re: cleaning company failed handover guarantee and refused to compensate the cost

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Every year about 2.3 millions people in this country are registered at Betreibungs... There is no restriction to Betreibungs, and anyone can approach them to say XXX owed me XXX CHF, even this is not true. If the amount of money is below 30,000 CHF, you will go to court of your Gemeinde, and if you lose the case you only need to pay for the money + maximal 150 court fee... Betreibungs is only a threat.

Total rubbish, learn how it works first, then post please
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  #27  
Old 12.10.2021, 13:31
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Re: cleaning company failed handover guarantee and refused to compensate the cost

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Total rubbish, learn how it works first, then post please
Well, it seems that you know how it works, I would appreciate if you can say something essential.
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  #28  
Old 12.10.2021, 13:51
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Re: cleaning company failed handover guarantee and refused to compensate the cost

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With the greatest respect, if you are saying "if", you would appear not to be an authority on the process and should perhaps refrain from giving advice?
This is the law. So if you win, the court can cancel the Betreibung. I don't know your case. Maybe your case is different? Anyway, people can give advice if he knows the law.

Die Ämter geben Dritten von einer Betreibung keine Kenntnis, wenn:

a.
die Betreibung nichtig ist oder aufgrund einer Beschwerde oder eines gerichtlichen Entscheids14 aufgehoben worden ist;
b.
der Schuldner mit einer Rückforderungsklage obsiegt hat;
c.
der Gläubiger die Betreibung zurückgezogen hat;
d.15
der Schuldner nach Ablauf einer Frist von drei Monaten seit der Zustellung des Zahlungsbefehls ein entsprechendes Gesuch gestellt hat, sofern der Gläubiger nach Ablauf einer vom Betreibungsamt angesetzten Frist von 20 Tagen den Nachweis nicht erbringt, dass rechtzeitig ein Verfahren zur Beseitigung des Rechtsvorschlages (Art. 79-84) eingeleitet wurde; wird dieser Nachweis nachträglich erbracht oder wird die Betreibung fortgesetzt, wird sie Dritten wieder zur Kenntnis gebracht.
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  #29  
Old 12.10.2021, 14:12
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Re: cleaning company failed handover guarantee and refused to compensate the cost

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That is NOT the only downside to getting a Betreibung. It can seriously affect your applications for housing, jobs, credit cards etc - please don't spread such potentially harmful misinformation.
oh, again this fearmongering:
housing, maybe yes
jobs, credit cards, no
even C Bewilligung is not affected, if we are talking about some random, solitary notice in Betriebungsregister
Don't spread harmful information, people should pay what they are due to pay and not what they are extorted to pay. No Swiss person I know would ever do pay it, it is a thing only for Auslaenders that we are so scared of some notice in the register.
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  #30  
Old 12.10.2021, 14:18
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Re: cleaning company failed handover guarantee and refused to compensate the cost

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oh, again this fearmongering:
housing, maybe yes
jobs, credit cards, no
even C Bewilligung is not affected, if we are talking about some random, solitary notice in Betriebungsregister
Don't spread harmful information, people should pay what they are due to pay and not what they are extorted to pay. No Swiss person I know would ever do pay it, it is a thing only for Auslaenders that we are so scared of some notice in the register.
.

Yes, it is exactly. Some companies take the advantage of Betreibungs to threat Ausländers... The best way to know something is to learn the law, rather than hearing some personal cases...
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  #31  
Old 12.10.2021, 14:24
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Re: cleaning company failed handover guarantee and refused to compensate the cost

Getting back to the topic.

I have used Movu before and my experience was satisfactory. The cleaners were on site during the inspection and they didn't leave until the agency was completely satisfied. Fortunately the gentleman had booked an entire hour for the inspection so there was plenty of time to get it done.

In your case I really think you should re-discuss with Movu and tell them that this is going in circles and if no remedy is found you will escalate it legally. They contracted the cleaners, took your money and offer this clear guarantee which was not met. It should also concern them that one of their cleaning contractors not only failed two cleaning inspections, but the remedial work cost CHF 800.

In typical Swiss fashion they may offer a compromise, which together with the CHF 150 from the cleaning company you should grab with both hands and consider it as a lesson learnt.
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  #32  
Old 12.10.2021, 14:33
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Re: cleaning company failed handover guarantee and refused to compensate the cost

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oh, again this fearmongering:
housing, maybe yes
jobs, credit cards, no
even C Bewilligung is not affected, if we are talking about some random, solitary notice in Betriebungsregister
Don't spread harmful information, people should pay what they are due to pay and not what they are extorted to pay. No Swiss person I know would ever do pay it, it is a thing only for Auslaenders that we are so scared of some notice in the register.
So no job you've applied for has ever asked for a Betreibungsauszug?
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  #33  
Old 12.10.2021, 14:40
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Re: cleaning company failed handover guarantee and refused to compensate the cost

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Getting back to the topic.

In typical Swiss fashion they may offer a compromise, which together with the CHF 150 from the cleaning company you should grab with both hands and consider it as a lesson learnt.
+1
And on top of that remember never to pay such services before the piece of work has been delivered.
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  #34  
Old 12.10.2021, 14:42
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Re: cleaning company failed handover guarantee and refused to compensate the cost

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So no job you've applied for has ever asked for a Betreibungsauszug?
As far as I know according to the law, if you win in the court or failed but paid the money, then Betreibung office will not provide your records to the third party such as employer.
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  #35  
Old 13.10.2021, 10:25
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Re: cleaning company failed handover guarantee and refused to compensate the cost

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Getting back to the topic.

I have used Movu before and my experience was satisfactory. The cleaners were on site during the inspection and they didn't leave until the agency was completely satisfied. Fortunately the gentleman had booked an entire hour for the inspection so there was plenty of time to get it done.

In your case I really think you should re-discuss with Movu and tell them that this is going in circles and if no remedy is found you will escalate it legally. They contracted the cleaners, took your money and offer this clear guarantee which was not met. It should also concern them that one of their cleaning contractors not only failed two cleaning inspections, but the remedial work cost CHF 800.

In typical Swiss fashion they may offer a compromise, which together with the CHF 150 from the cleaning company you should grab with both hands and consider it as a lesson learnt.
Thanks.

The case is I have to pay first to get the service, and the total compensation is 150 CHF.-
That's why I'm not satisfied.
I contacted MOVU yesterday, and it seems they still believe the cleaning company side, not mine (the company claim the second cleaning was not allowed). And I sent them another email.

I also contacted my credit card (UBS) company about the issue, and send them a complaint form.

Hopefully one of the two sides can resolve this.
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  #36  
Old 13.10.2021, 13:56
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Re: cleaning company failed handover guarantee and refused to compensate the cost

Maniux, do you have any evidence that they were permitted a second clean, e.g. emails? Or could you ask the agency to write a letter confirming indeed that they were offered a second opportunity to clean, on the day of the handover, but still failed to meet the standard?

In terms of communicating with MoVu, it might be better to start sending them registered postal mails rather than emails, including documented evidence that the company were allowed a second clean and including a timeframe by when you expect your money refunded (in German).
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  #37  
Old 13.10.2021, 19:44
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Re: cleaning company failed handover guarantee and refused to compensate the cost

Sorry, but what is exactly lesson learnt in this case? You buy a service with handover guaranteed and you don't get it? How this could be improved for next time?

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Getting back to the topic.

In typical Swiss fashion they may offer a compromise, which together with the CHF 150 from the cleaning company you should grab with both hands and consider it as a lesson learnt.
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  #38  
Old 18.10.2021, 10:00
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Re: cleaning company failed handover guarantee and refused to compensate the cost

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Maniux, do you have any evidence that they were permitted a second clean, e.g. emails? Or could you ask the agency to write a letter confirming indeed that they were offered a second opportunity to clean, on the day of the handover, but still failed to meet the standard?

In terms of communicating with MoVu, it might be better to start sending them registered postal mails rather than emails, including documented evidence that the company were allowed a second clean and including a timeframe by when you expect your money refunded (in German).
Thank you for your time and effort.

Yes, after contacting MOVU again, they first say the cleaning company refused to admin, and after I negotiating again, they say that an email from the admin side will "help".

I'm currently requesting an official doc from the housing admin at the moment. Let's see.

But anyway MOVU is very passive than active in resolving the issue.
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  #39  
Old 18.10.2021, 14:14
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Re: cleaning company failed handover guarantee and refused to compensate the cost

If the OP opens a dispute through his CC provider, there is no reason that should lead to a "betreibung". The dispute moves to between the CC company and the service provider. Further, no supplier wants too many disputes raised against them as it can lead to MC or Visa card issuer cancelling the contract with them, so the pressure is on the supplier to resolve the matter quickly.

Word your letter to cc co. very carefully, so it's clearly understood they came back a second time and the cleaning was still unsatisfactory.
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Old 18.10.2021, 16:54
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Re: cleaning company failed handover guarantee and refused to compensate the cost

Had a similar situation years ago when moving from Forch many years ago. The cleaning company (although with guarantee) did a truly terrible job - it cost me a few hundred more. I can guarantee that I gave this apartment back in absolute pristine condition (before the cleaning) - am maybe a bit OCD.

The „landlord“ and cleaning company ganged-up on me during the hand-over - the mysoginist landlord wanted to get as much out of it as possible because I‘d only stayed there around 2 years, and because I was a ‚foreigner‘ The cleaning company’s guy was a mysoginist bastard, and the hand-over was unbelievable.

Then, I even got charged an additional CHF 250.- for the cleaning costs in the final cleaning invoice, which I refused to pay. So, it went to the Betreibungsamt.

Got recommended through a good friend that had a top lawyer through her company. His recommendation - there are just such idiots around - easier to pay it than fight it - just insist when you go to court that the Betreibung is retracted. He didn‘t charge me for his services as it was among friends, otherwise this would have cost me another CHF 750.- easily.

Neither the resulting court experience, nor the stress was worth it - I was granted my rights - but would never do it again.

Have learned from that, and the past few years of moving with quite expensive, really professional removal companies have been stress-free.
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