Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 10.10.2009, 16:34
gata's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Geneva
Posts: 3,854
Groaned at 67 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 3,567 Times in 1,678 Posts
gata has a reputation beyond reputegata has a reputation beyond reputegata has a reputation beyond reputegata has a reputation beyond reputegata has a reputation beyond reputegata has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Just bought a house!

Congratulations!!

But how long did it take you to make that 325k downpayment?
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10.10.2009, 16:37
Rangatiranui's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Baden region
Posts: 2,167
Groaned at 14 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 2,437 Times in 1,074 Posts
Rangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Just bought a house!

Quote:
View Post
Tax is about 55K. How many kids one needs to bring it down to 6K?

Advantage could be having a family basketball team but I doubt about any financial gain as a full time nanny will offset any savings in tax and then some!

Just 2 kids - re basket ball team - Quite apart from the cost of the nanny, the cost to the sanity is too great (!)

ps: Income was also reduced to less than half after having kids - less income, less tax. everyone wins
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10.10.2009, 16:39
gbn's Avatar
gbn gbn is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Zuri Oberland
Posts: 2,739
Groaned at 109 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 2,369 Times in 1,114 Posts
gbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Just bought a house!

Quote:
View Post
Oh sorry. I have been working here for 23 years, guess that's a lot more than most.
Of course it is... I can't decide if you are proud and want to share or showing off your wealth...

And if your tax bill was 40k per year, that also puts you on perhaps 4-5 times average earnings (250-300k)...

Congratulations and enjoy your house though
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10.10.2009, 16:56
Rangatiranui's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Baden region
Posts: 2,167
Groaned at 14 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 2,437 Times in 1,074 Posts
Rangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Just bought a house!

Quote:
View Post
I bet quite a few people (I could name a couple off-hand myself) who have been earning here for 23 years haven't got that much either.
It's not really what a person earns anyway, it's what they get paid for doing their job.
I like this a lot.

I used to do budgets for a section of about 2000 people. I found it quite unfair that we used to have to reduce headcounts to save money. Because if the Big Boss would have reduced his income by "only" 5 mil chf (he was earning 75 mil) it would have kept another 60 to 70 jobs.

How can you "earn" 75 mil a year?!?

Its off topic. i am still very happy for Karl! To have a goal, and achieve it !!!
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10.10.2009, 17:04
Rangatiranui's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Baden region
Posts: 2,167
Groaned at 14 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 2,437 Times in 1,074 Posts
Rangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Just bought a house!

Quote:
View Post
Congratulations!!

But how long did it take you to make that 325k downpayment?
See the post above - 23 years!


Quote:
View Post
Of course it is... I can't decide if you are proud and want to share or showing off your wealth...
He is just happy, and sharing his good news. This may also be a cultural thing. I feel that some Swiss don't "gönn" someone else success. Is this true of some English cultures?

Last edited by Rangatiranui; 12.10.2009 at 09:06.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10.10.2009, 17:59
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,731
Groaned at 326 Times in 220 Posts
Thanked 10,667 Times in 3,718 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Just bought a house!

Quote:
View Post
You don't get it...the HOUSE is now my pension fund, instead of a faceless financial institution who have their own best interest in mind, and will tell me how much I am entitled to in 15 years (assuming they are still solvent). I have just shifted my assets from an anonymous 3rd party who is doing God-knows-what with my money, to a direct investment that I have direct control over, and can enjoy immediatly at the same time. Like having your cake and eating it too. Swiss real-estate has had a rock solid appreciation trend over the long term, small but stable.
And how will you pay yourself your pension and still have somewhere to live??
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 11.10.2009, 09:05
Karl's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 1,955
Groaned at 186 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 2,874 Times in 929 Posts
Karl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Just bought a house!

Quote:
View Post
And how will you pay yourself your pension and still have somewhere to live??
Well there are a couple answers to this question. Answer one: what is a primary need in retirement? Answer: paying for place to live, be it rent or mortgage payments. As the house will be paid off by then, and Eigenmietwert looks like it will soon be abolished, this is a way of insuring a shelter in old age. Instead of counting on the pension to pay it, we will simply own it outright.

Answer 2: in the case we need to sell the house (decide to downsize to an apartment once the kids are out, or need to move into assisted care etc.), we simply sell the house (which after 20-30 years will certainly not have lost any value given the trends here and the quality of construction), and use the cash as pension (indeed Swiss law requires that any pension money used to buy a house must be repaid into the pension once you sell the house).

Answer 3: I still have 15 years to work and rebuild my pension, plus my wife has one that we didn't touch.

Answer 4: We have maxed out on 3 Saule and savings for the past 20 years, so we have a nice resource there.

Answer 5: I will probably inhererit what we put down on the house some day, so that will backfill the pension down the road.

Answer 6: Who knows, I might get hit by a bus tomorrow, so better enjoy the money now and not always worry about tomorrow!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Karl for this useful post:
  #28  
Old 11.10.2009, 09:12
Karl's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 1,955
Groaned at 186 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 2,874 Times in 929 Posts
Karl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Just bought a house!

Quote:
View Post
That's a useful post Karl, but where did you find a house for 685K? Is it a standalone house?

Everything I looked at recently is at least 1 million and I can only find apartments for this price.

Congratulations on your house!
Yes, stand-alone house in the sense you can walk completely around it (through the garage, however, the garage wall connects to the neighbors garage).

Hint about finding affordable housing...don't look in Kanton Zurich....go to homegate.ch and search Kanton Aargau. There are plenty of places there strategically placed near S Bahn stations, A1 motorway, and also the newly opened Westring. Lots of houses for sale in the 600-750K range that are perfectly nice. And interest rates now are ridiculously low, we got 2.35% for 5 years. We now pay less than 700 CHF a month mortgage!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Karl for this useful post:
  #29  
Old 11.10.2009, 09:19
Karl's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 1,955
Groaned at 186 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 2,874 Times in 929 Posts
Karl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Just bought a house!

Quote:
View Post
Down payment is for sure a factor for many, however some don't buy house thinking they can gain more profit on other investments specially outside CH.
Not to mention you need to live in it for several years to notice the profit after all the costs involved with the purchase and move,....
We plan to live in this house until the end, at least 20-30 years, we never need to move again. We all got Swiss citizenship this year, and the house is perfect in all respects: our next move will be to a 6 foot hole in the ground. Concerning investment value, I believe you, I am only counting on this house holding its value. We have the other half of our assets invested in stock funds, 3rd pillar accounts, and my wifes pension.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11.10.2009, 09:25
Karl's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 1,955
Groaned at 186 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 2,874 Times in 929 Posts
Karl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Just bought a house!

Quote:
View Post
Congratulations!!

But how long did it take you to make that 325k downpayment?
23 years of pension deductions, 7% taken straight off my paychecks from my 8 different employers (who also made contributions) during that time. We also have about that much in other savings, incl. 3rd pillar.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Karl for this useful post:
  #31  
Old 11.10.2009, 09:28
Karl's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 1,955
Groaned at 186 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 2,874 Times in 929 Posts
Karl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Just bought a house!

Quote:
View Post
Of course it is... I can't decide if you are proud and want to share or showing off your wealth...

And if your tax bill was 40k per year, that also puts you on perhaps 4-5 times average earnings (250-300k)...

Congratulations and enjoy your house though
I would say my average annual income over the past 23 years is around 110-115K CHF per year. I started in 1987 at about 4700 CHF per month (when things were of course much cheaper), and maxed out at around 170K CHF. I've down-graded to a less stressful job, now making about 120K and enjoying it for a change.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Karl for this useful post:
  #32  
Old 11.10.2009, 09:37
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Just bought a house!

Quote:
View Post
Down payment is for sure a factor for many, however some don't buy house thinking they can gain more profit on other investments specially outside CH.
Not to mention you need to live in it for several years to notice the profit after all the costs involved with the purchase and move,....
Not to mention the taxes if you have to sell a house sooner than you expected to.. isn't it 50% on everything above the purchase price? The % of tax decreases the longer you live in it.

You can buy cheaper houses in Kanton Zürich but they are usually old and often need lots of work. It is worth mentioning that if you buy an older/cheaper house and take your time, spending your hard earned dosh doing it up, you will not see a good return on the money you have put into it - unless of course, you live in it a long time.

Congrats Karl in finding your long term dream home
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 11.10.2009, 09:41
Karl's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 1,955
Groaned at 186 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 2,874 Times in 929 Posts
Karl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Just bought a house!

Quote:
View Post
Not to mention the taxes if you have to sell a house sooner than you expected to.. isn't it 50% on everything above the purchase price? The % of tax decreases the longer you live in it.

You can buy cheaper houses in Kanton Zürich but they are usually old and often need lots of work. It is worth mentioning that if you buy an older/cheaper house and take your time, spending your hard earned dosh doing it up, you will not see a good return on the money you have put into it - unless of course, you live in it a long time.

Congrats Karl in finding your long term dream home
Thanks, but the previous owners completely renovated this house, built out he attic, put down new stone tiles on all floors, built out a guest room in the basement with underfloor heating...there's nothing to do...the house is in immaculate condition! We even have 10 meter wide mature hedge of grape vines...what do I do with all these grapes?
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 11.10.2009, 09:48
Tilia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 2,765
Groaned at 81 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 2,649 Times in 1,194 Posts
Tilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Just bought a house!

Well, actually, buying an old house and renovating it can be a very good deal tax-wise if you have enough income to off-set it against as you can deduct it 100%.

Yes, taxes on capital gain on real estate are high the first five years but it is on capital GAIN so in the end you still have more in the hand than before you bought your house.



Quote:
View Post
Not to mention the taxes if you have to sell a house sooner than you expected to.. isn't it 50% on everything above the purchase price? The % of tax decreases the longer you live in it.

You can buy cheaper houses in Kanton Zürich but they are usually old and often need lots of work. It is worth mentioning that if you buy an older/cheaper house and take your time, spending your hard earned dosh doing it up, you will not see a good return on the money you have put into it - unless of course, you live in it a long time.

Congrats Karl in finding your long term dream home
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 11.10.2009, 10:04
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Just bought a house!

Quote:
View Post
Well, actually, buying an old house and renovating it can be a very good deal tax-wise if you have enough income to off-set it against as you can deduct it 100%.

Yes, taxes on capital gain on real estate are high the first five years but it is on capital GAIN so in the end you still have more in the hand than before you bought your house.
you can only deduct it once after you've done the work or at the end when you sell, no?
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 11.10.2009, 10:21
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tee Chee No?
Posts: 1,846
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,485 Times in 713 Posts
Boxman has a reputation beyond reputeBoxman has a reputation beyond reputeBoxman has a reputation beyond reputeBoxman has a reputation beyond reputeBoxman has a reputation beyond reputeBoxman has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Just bought a house!

you can claim investment and maintenance costs either on your income tax or to offset capital gains tax when you sell. Capital gains on a sale depreciates over time - in the first 5 years in Zurich, for example, you'll pay 50% tax on any gain you make (this can be offset by investing the gain in a more expensive property).

What's not been mentioned here is that you pay tax when you cash out your pension. You do have the option to pledge your pension should you wish. With interest rates here in Switzerland being consistently low for many years, I pledged when I purchased as I saw it as a better long-term option.

I also believe that you can dip below 2% in the current market. Shop around for a mortgage provider. If you work for a bank, you'll also get very good deals

Another thing to consider is that the local tax authority might re-evaluate the own rentable value when the sale takes place; they're nice like that

Many of the hurdles in the tax system I believe were brought in years ago to stop property speculation. This pushed up prices in certain areas. Also, you might find that the property registry protects you a little; our contract limited the interest rate we could be charged to 10% (I found that quite interesting). In the 80s, I believe interest rates hit around 14% (which must've been upsetting for anyone with a mortgage!)
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Boxman for this useful post:
  #37  
Old 11.10.2009, 10:50
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,060
Groaned at 165 Times in 140 Posts
Thanked 6,347 Times in 2,896 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Just bought a house!

Quote:
View Post
Of course it is... I can't decide if you are proud and want to share or showing off your wealth...
Actually having a little over 300K in a pension fund after 23 years is about average if you are a professional earning say around 100K per year... In fact if you are within 15 years of retirement, as Karl is then you should have more!

This should be a reality check for people who have been paying the minimum or not buying in missing years etc...


Some "back of the napkin calculations" would suggest that pension savings of about 300K at retirement would amount to a pension of about 1,400 per month at best and since most of us will not qualify for a full AHV pension the total figure would be about say 3,000 per month. If you allow for rent and health insurance for a couple, that is not a lot of money.

Good luck with that,

Jim
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
  #38  
Old 11.10.2009, 10:57
Rangatiranui's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Baden region
Posts: 2,167
Groaned at 14 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 2,437 Times in 1,074 Posts
Rangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Just bought a house!

Karl - just because they ask you, you don't have to tell them.

The internet is not a private place.

Please be careful...
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Rangatiranui for this useful post:
  #39  
Old 11.10.2009, 15:08
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 137
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 40 Times in 24 Posts
Powerlauer has no particular reputation at present
Re: Just bought a house!

Congrats on the house - we will also use our pension fund.....now all we need is a house!

Been looking for 5 glorious years - prefer Wollishofen, as I like it here, but the last house we looked at that was in our budget was near a motor way...the one I am dreaming about is Barbie House...pink and lovely that is owned by a Bank and one needs to own a bank to buy it!

One can still dream!
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 11.10.2009, 21:16
Karl's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 1,955
Groaned at 186 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 2,874 Times in 929 Posts
Karl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Just bought a house!

Quote:
View Post
Actually having a little over 300K in a pension fund after 23 years is about average if you are a professional earning say around 100K per year... In fact if you are within 15 years of retirement, as Karl is then you should have more!

This should be a reality check for people who have been paying the minimum or not buying in missing years etc...


Some "back of the napkin calculations" would suggest that pension savings of about 300K at retirement would amount to a pension of about 1,400 per month at best and since most of us will not qualify for a full AHV pension the total figure would be about say 3,000 per month. If you allow for rent and health insurance for a couple, that is not a lot of money.

Good luck with that,

Jim
That's why there are things called the 3rd pillar, personal savings, and wife's income. I never assumed the 2nd pillar, even combined with the 1st (AHV), would be sufficient.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
home sweet home, house, real estate




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Separation/Divorce - being bought out of house Geordie Girl Family matters/health 10 10.05.2010 10:01
Anyone ever bought anything from www.misco.ch swissmama TV/internet/telephone 6 27.01.2010 17:00
if i bought electronics i.e a hifi from US monkeynut TV/internet/telephone 13 27.08.2009 12:44
Car bought in CH back to UK Nickelen Transportation/driving 2 02.05.2009 17:48
We bought the farm Karl Daily life 27 17.02.2009 23:56


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:08.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0