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  #41  
Old 07.04.2010, 16:16
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Re: Livit AG - Your opinions please?

in my case livit was good... no problems in my 2yr stay...

only prob was when i decided to move to a separate house (previously i used to share with frnds) and applied to livit houses itself thinking they might consider since i lived and had good relation for 2 yrs but got straight rejections for 5-6 houses
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  #42  
Old 07.04.2010, 16:19
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Re: Livit AG - Your opinions please?

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fyi, regarding Livit, they are owned by Swiss Life and you can read about our ordeal with them here:

http://www.jardincity.ch

We made the papers again over the weekend...

http://www.lematin.ch/actu/suisse/pu...deloger-257391

(google chrome has a nice translate feature for non-french speakers)

sorry can you explain the problem, I have read the sites but can't see what the issue is?? they own the house and have given everyone 3 months notice to leave, which they are entitled to do, right?
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  #43  
Old 07.04.2010, 21:58
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Re: Livit AG - Your opinions please?

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Livit is the subsidiary of a very large insurer Swiss Life. Livit manages the apartment blocks that Swiss Life and other large institutions own. Livit aims to maximize revenue for the investors.

I think Livit is business like. They are not agents who claim to help apartment seekers but rip them off.
I agree with that 100%. They were "by the book" but knew how to turn the tricks in their favor.

My personal experience: I was the first tennant in a new block of flats, and in the first winter, we had massive problems with water condensation inside the apartment (especially on windows and celing). I never experienced anything like that before, and assumed the apartment wasn't properly dried out after construction. I complained to Livit, they sent someone to measure the humidity level, we all agreed it was very high, but Livits only suggestion was to open the windows 5x a day and that I should stop being so humid in the apartment When I moved out they stuck me with the bill to re-paint the moldy celing. I tried arguing, since I never had any problem like that (before or after, I don't live a very humid lifestyle), but after banging my head on the wall decided to just pay the few hundred to re-paint and swore off Livit for good. ..oh, yea, they also found every single little scratch and speck of dirt that they could justify keeping the deposit as well...

...now when looking for apartments I shy away from any owned by "professional" rental agencies because I know how they operate...
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  #44  
Old 08.04.2010, 20:02
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Re: Livit AG - Your opinions please?

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I agree with that 100%. They were "by the book" but knew how to turn the tricks in their favor. oh, yea, they also found every single little scratch and speck of dirt that they could justify keeping the deposit as well......now when looking for apartments I shy away from any owned by "professional" rental agencies because I know how they operate...
So you mean dealing with private owners only ?
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  #45  
Old 12.04.2010, 12:39
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Re: Livit AG - Your opinions please?

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sorry can you explain the problem, I have read the sites but can't see what the issue is?? they own the house and have given everyone 3 months notice to leave, which they are entitled to do, right?
I think it's easy to lose sight of the social and ethical impact when boiling down an issue to it's legalities. Perhaps technically Livit did act within the the law (gave the minimum legal notice) but are they being up front and honest about their intentions? Should an agency be allowed to evict and raise rents for the tenants of it's buidlings for the sake of shareholder profit and to the detriment of the local community? These are issues that need to be examined and considered.

To summarize the issue: Livit (wholly owned by Swiss Life) seeks to evict all the residents in order to do "heavy renovations", not specifying anything exactly. They sent the evictions before they even submitted any work plans to the commune. It has been revealed since that they intend to build a new building in our garden area. Major renovations were done in 1989 and some renovations again in 2004 for two apartments (mine) as they changed tenants. There is nothing wrong with our apartment or any others. The 'heavy renovations' work is a smoke screen to move everyone out, do some token work, and raise the rents for the old building, which is illegal and unscrupulus.

Regarding the new building proposed, our buildings are classified as historic and there is little chance that they would be allowed to build on the garden area, as that is considered part of the communal unit. The "Jardin City" is an eco-socio project built in 1935, an original concept. Also, there are new (and old) apartments to our sides, which a new building would obstruct their views of the lake. It's is highly unlikely that such a project would even be accepted. They probably know this and don't care, as the end game for them is the same: more profit.

Lastly, there is no consideration by Livit for the social impact of their profit-plan. We have two businessess in the buildings, one a hairdresser who has been there for 30 years and is the last traditional barber in the commune. He himself did major renovations to his shop just a few years ago. It is modern and in perfect condition. The second business is a small grocer which serves the immediate community. To close these businesses would deprive the community of valuable services and likely put these people on the chomage. There are no alternative business locations in our commune.

We also have many elderly residents in our building. For example, one lady is 86 years old, another is 77. They have been living here for 46 and 29 years respectively. These ladies, like everyone else, were given evictions with the minimum notice, with no consideration to the impact on their lives. I found it rather sad that their comments in the newpapers were "I'd rather die" and "I feel betrayed". There is no chance for them to relocate anywhere nearby and they would both likely end up in nursing homes. Needless to say, the stress would likely hasten the end of their lives.

The vacancy rate in the Lausanne area is .01% which is a core issue in these evictions. I do not enjoy the idea of having to search for another apartment knowing full well that there is nothing available in the area. I would likely be moving far outside the Lausanne area in order to find something comparable. The apartment agencies have been "pricing out" the middle class in favor of high rent apartments for what I call "the executive class" - the highly paid execs who occupy the multinational corporations in the area. If such a trend continues, communes such as Pully will price out their own citizens as is already happening in the ski villages across the country.

We currently have a petition signed to block the eviction and halt the "renovations" with over 2100 signatures from residents of our community, which is over 10%. It has been recently revealed that Livit/SwissLife has budgeted over 400000CHF to fight our opposition (intimidation tactics). Imagine instead if they had budgeted half this money to assist us to find new apartments, or temporary housing while the renovations occur. This would have been a more fair, ethical, and social route to take instead of crass profiteering.

Now, do you really want to rent from Livit?
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  #46  
Old 12.04.2010, 12:54
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Re: Livit AG - Your opinions please?

They probably know this and don't care, as the end game for them is the same: more profit.

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We also have many elderly residents in our building. For example, one lady is 86 years old, another is 77. They have been living here for 46 and 29 years respectively. These ladies, like everyone else, were given evictions with the minimum notice, with no consideration to the impact on their lives. I found it rather sad that their comments in the newpapers were "I'd rather die" and "I feel betrayed". There is no chance for them to relocate anywhere nearby and they would both likely end up in nursing homes. Needless to say, the stress would likely hasten the end of their lives.

The vacancy rate in the Lausanne area is .01% which is a core issue in these evictions. I do not enjoy the idea of having to search for another apartment knowing full well that there is nothing available in the area. I would likely be moving far outside the Lausanne area in order to find something comparable. The apartment agencies have been "pricing out" the middle class in favor of high rent apartments for what I call "the executive class" - the highly paid execs who occupy the multinational corporations in the area. If such a trend continues, communes such as Pully will price out their own citizens as is already happening in the ski villages across the country.

This would have been a more fair, ethical, and social route to take instead of crass profiteering. Now, do you really want to rent from Livit?
indeed a great post and I think I read a recent newsletter from the Mieterverband about this as well. They called it 'Brutal Kundigung' which i think means brutal eviction notices. It is amazing how much power these companies have to evict people in a renter's country like Switzerland.

Based on these stories and there are many of then by the way, some people will ask 'Do you really want to rent in the country at all' ?

PS

Never knew Lausanne had such a low vacancy rate, I thought it was ZH and Geneva that had these issues.

Last edited by evilshell; 12.04.2010 at 12:55. Reason: fixed quote tag
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  #47  
Old 14.04.2010, 09:16
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Re: Livit AG - Your opinions please?

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indeed a great post and I think I read a recent newsletter from the Mieterverband about this as well. They called it 'Brutal Kundigung' which i think means brutal eviction notices. It is amazing how much power these companies have to evict people in a renter's country like Switzerland.
yep, even worse is that swiss voters approved a law in jan 2009 that make it easier for the agencies and owners to evict without cause. the reasoning was that the difficulties in removing tenants was blocking the progress of improving the housing market. but the contrary effect has occurred, agencies and owners use this to displace existing tenants, upgrade, and re-rent to higher paying tenants, as in our case. Livit seeks to consolidate the existing full apartments with the studio apartments, creating larger single apartments renting at twice the current rent. these types of actions are shrinking the housing pool for all, making the housing situation worse for everyone.
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  #48  
Old 14.04.2010, 12:06
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Re: Livit AG - Your opinions please?

Really strange why this was voted the way it was. I don't know if this shrinks the housing pool but it surely does shrink the 'affordable housing' pool. A coat of paint and a new window in the kitchen and up the rent by 50%.
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  #49  
Old 14.04.2010, 13:00
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Re: Livit AG - Your opinions please?

as is typical with many laws - they are sold with one intent and end up having a different or even opposite result.

i've learned that in our case, Livit willfully neglected routine maintenance (normally covered by our rent) for many years (about the time i moved in my apartment 6 years ago) in order to run up (or rundown in this case) the number of defects in the buildings to justify such 'heavy renovations' later down the road. so yes, a touch of paint here, fix a crack there, and (cha-ching!) double the rent.
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  #50  
Old 17.05.2010, 10:10
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Re: Livit AG - Your opinions please?

We have recently taken on a new build apartment from Livit and so far Ive found them to be fairly unhelpful and dis interested.

The snagging that was promised is still oustanding, one month in, lights dont work, tiles are broken etc. The apartments ground floor and as theyve recently done all the gardens the shutters, windows and patio are covered in muck which they had promised to clean but never have. Ive photographed everything as I know that on exit they will try and charge me for cleaning these.

Would I use them again? No.
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  #51  
Old 17.05.2010, 10:56
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Re: Livit AG - Your opinions please?

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So you mean dealing with private owners only ?
In my 3 apartments in CH so far I rented once from a private person (good experience), once from the Gemeinde Pensionkasse (also good experience) and once from Livit (bad experience).

Would I rent from Livit again? When I look for an apartment to rent I consider everything: price, location, etc. If I see "Livit" (or any other professional agency) I put that in the list of negatives (along with living next to a railroad track or below a dance studio). Given a choice I won't rent from them again, but if I found a great apartment in a perfect location with a great price, and it was offered only by Livit, I'd probably bite the bullet and take it anyway.
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  #52  
Old 24.07.2010, 07:48
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Re: Livit AG - Your opinions please?

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We have rented through Livit the place where we are now, and apart for the extortionate 3 times x rent deposit () we haven't had the slightlest problem with them so far.

we are just about to give our 3 month notice to quit ... I'll keep you guys posted.

BTW, I don't work for Livit and I have no reason to blow their trumpet...
ok, so we moved out during the last week or so and we had the handover inspection yesterday.

No-one from Livit actually showed up and the whole process was handled by the janitor-cum-handyman-cum-building maintenance dude, who doesn't work for Livit but for what I think is a property management company called ISS.

Anyway, the whole thing was over in half hour, most of it spent compiling the Protokoll form. The inspection on the appliance involved nothing more than a cursory glance and a quick on/off switching. Another quick look was all that the walls / ceilings got just to check if there were any holes / scratches (btw, after Anthony fixed all the holes you couldn't see them even if you knew where they were... top job), and a couple of scuff marks where just waived on as wear and tear.

According to what Livit actually told re: returning the deposit, as soon as they receive the paperwork from the handover they will send us the release form that we'll sign and then they'll send to the bank that holds the deposit for release. I'll update you in due course on how long that will take.

A couple of notes though

1- the flat was left really very, very clean. As I run the cookery school from it, I know all about cleanliness and I would have been happy to eat off the bathroom floor. The oven was disassembled and scrubbed, the washing machine in the bathroom was moved and cleaned behind, the floor washed twice with a Vax floor washer... you get the idea. Not I needed bothering with all that, given the amount of attention given to it during the inspection

2- I told Livit (via email, for record keeping) very early on about any possible problem they would have found during the inspection (things like a dislodged electricity socket, skirting tiles falling off due to settlement cracks, et al.). In addition, when I started washing the external shutters and the terrace the neighbour below me complained (loudly) about the amount of water dripping down on his terrace, so I stopped and informed Livit again (via email, for record keeping) about the fact that I couldn't clean shutters / terrace and stated the reason why. The dude brought the email with him during the inspection and it was stapled to the Protokoll as part of the handover documents.
As a general feeling, I guess they'd rather know of problems in advance than discovering them by themselves during the inspection

3- Re: cleanliness of the place, I have the feeling that it wasn't something they were really bothered about (i'm talking about a thin layer of dust, not a grimy fridge / oven, that's a different ball game). A lot of flats in my block are just laying empty, so I guess that mine will be too, and I think that they realise that is not worth it to get picky about a couple of dusty footprints as they will have to get a cleaning company in again for a quick once-over when they will rent it out. So my guess is that as long as the heavy cleaning is done properly (fridge / dishwasher / washing machine / tumbler / oven / hob / toiler / shower) they'll be happy

I do agree with what was said up-thread by someone else... I don't think that Livit itself is the problem, I think that it depends on who's looking after your particular property. I heard horror stories about Livit handover done by a team of 4 people checking every single square inch on the place, on the other hand my experience was the complete opposite.
On top of that, the personal opinion / experience I heard from quite a few people is that moving out inspections are a lot harder with private landlords than with big management companies. Maybe right maybe wrong, but probably you look at it from a different angle if it is your house ( I know i do with mine in Guernsey that is rented out at the moment...)

Anyway, this is my 2 rappen worth about Livit. I'll keep you posted on how the return of the deposit comes along
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  #53  
Old 24.07.2010, 09:16
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Re: Livit AG - Your opinions please?

Reading all this, i must say i have dodged a bullet.
we found some property to view with Livit on our arrival, and rang them to see it.

The office told us they would contact us for an appointment after talking to the owners of the property.

Days went by,no on rang and i was still B&B'ing away, costing me money every day.

After 4 days i rang them saying that we would like to view the property and did he had a chance to contact the owner, the Livit rep turned around being very rude and told us not to ring him again and we would have to view it on his terms and when he had time.

I didn't pay attention to Livit anymore as i do not wish to be spoken to that way so we found a nicer apartment with someone else.
Funny thing, once we moved in, about 4 weeks later,The guy from Livit rang and told us to be at the address that same afternoon.

Needles to say i told him where he could stick his viewing.. one thing is sure, Livit reps are not orking on commission

The company we have now is much better, and have a good reputation down the road, but since they are small, you won't find them all over the country.

mind you with the reputation they have in Aargau, they could be a great success
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Old 24.07.2010, 11:15
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Re: Livit AG - Your opinions please?

Our new apartment is with Livit and so far so good they have not charged us with anything. The only curious thing is that they charged us two months of deposit (normal) but the amount included the nebenkosten and that is NOT normal (it was not so much so we just accepted).
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  #55  
Old 22.06.2012, 14:42
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Re: Livit AG - Your opinions please?

I wanted to rent an apartman from Livit. I called the agent, told him I liked it, he said he reserved it for me. I filled in the papers, sent to them, the next day he called me the flat was given to someone else by his colleague but there is an another one at an other number, same flat, same price.
Ok, let's take that one.

They sent me the contract - with a price of 300 CHF more....
Probably I am far too naive but we had the curtains made in Hungary, our car is full with our stuff...
I start working on the 2nd of July, and this is the last thing I need.
I live here since 2009 and rented two flats, now I am in Untermiete, and I know that contracts here are tough but sometimes it is difficult to deal with agents but I never had such bad experience with them.
I called them 4-5 times today - no answer. Wrote an e-mail - one is on holiday, the other one is lost somewhere in the 4th dimension???
So far no answer.

We just started to look for another apartman - definitely not through livit.
Maybe it is a sign from the sky and I should be grateful.
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  #56  
Old 22.06.2012, 18:21
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Re: Livit AG - Your opinions please?

Here's my Livit experience:

1st time I applied for an apartment through Livit, they raised the price by 600 francs....
2nd time I applied for an apartment, they gave it to a non married couple on unemployment (My mother in law lives in the same building so I know everything that goes on there)
3rd time I applied for an apartment, they refused to rent it out. The woman leaving sent in our application with her leaving date, was leaving all her furniture for us because she was moving to Spain, and now its sitting empty.

There are minimum 10 apartments in that same building sitting empty because there have been rumors they are going to renovate and jack up the prices, but 3 years and nothing has been happening. With the shortage of housing in Lausanne, its sad the government can't do anything about it, because they are so many people looking for apartments and they have empty ones.

Needless to say, if I have to move again, I won't be looking at Livit.
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Old 22.06.2012, 18:35
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Re: Livit AG - Your opinions please?

I created a thread about not paying on time to livit for the rental of my parking space, I was sent a payment order and I paid but they haven't withdrawn the betreibung...I called them they said don't worry there are no problems...but as I say in my thread there is still the betreibung.
I just talked to my husband and he says it has cost them more to bill me the betreibung than what I had to pay, also there was only one notice given before that I could not answer as I was traveling so the usual procedure would have been another notice but instead we got the slip. I made the mistake of thinking I had put my parking place payment on automatic but I had not and I accept my responsibility, it just annoys me that when I call no one knows what to answer...another problem is not a lot of them speak English which is a bit weird them being a big company so I have to try my best in German (as in sucky German)
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  #58  
Old 22.06.2012, 18:59
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Re: Livit AG - Your opinions please?

I would not rent with Livit again. They underestimated our monthly costs by almost 150CHF/month, which I can only presume was intentional to get tenants. They've taken six months and counting to fix our window. Our heating doesn't work regularly but they are not forced to upgrade it for another two years. The exterior is horribly maintained and the eyesore of the neighbourhood.

I both dread and look forward to the day we can leave.
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Old 22.06.2012, 19:18
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Re: Livit AG - Your opinions please?

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I would not rent with Livit again. They underestimated our monthly costs by almost 150CHF/month, which I can only presume was intentional to get tenants. They've taken six months and counting to fix our window. Our heating doesn't work regularly but they are not forced to upgrade it for another two years. The exterior is horribly maintained and the eyesore of the neighbourhood.

I both dread and look forward to the day we can leave.
I was told by a Swiss colleague this is often done i.e. they keep the Nebenkosten low to get the tenants in and then later they can charge you the excess as they know its so expensive to find and move in CH. So its probably done often by many companies.
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Old 22.06.2012, 19:22
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I agree with that 100%. They were "by the book" but knew how to turn the tricks in their favor.

When I moved out they stuck me with the bill to re-paint the moldy celing. I tried arguing, since I never had any problem like that (before or after, I don't live a very humid lifestyle), but after banging my head on the wall decided to just pay the few hundred to re-paint and swore off Livit for good. ..oh, yea, they also found every single little scratch and speck of dirt that they could justify keeping the deposit as well...

...now when looking for apartments I shy away from any owned by "professional" rental agencies because I know how they operate...
A few hundred to repaint a mouldy ceiling is what we paid too. I dont understand though that if they play by the book, how can they turn the tricks in their favour ? Also, if you shy away from the rental agencies, how easy is it to find private owners ?
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