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  #41  
Old 27.03.2010, 12:34
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Re: Drilling into the ceiling to fix lights

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Im sure thats the case in my bathroom. You look up and see all sorts of cables and nothing is clear. Not nice when you want to read a book in a hot bath and candles are not enough!
Just tested all the wires in the bathroom, 4 different coloured cables (which is normal) Black, Red, Yellow and Green and yellow.

Now the wires are normally designated like this:

Red - Live
Black - Neutral
Yellow - Constant
Yellow and Green - Earth

In the bathroom the wires are wired up as

Red - Live (from switch)
Black - Constant
Yellow - Neutral
yellow and green - Neutral

Unblelievable - I would have been fired for doing such a thing, Swiss house electricians scare me!
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  #42  
Old 27.03.2010, 12:37
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Re: Drilling into the ceiling to fix lights

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Just tested all the wires in the bathroom, 4 different coloured cables (which is normal) Black, Red, Yellow and Green and yellow.

Now the wires are normally designated like this:

Red - Live
Black - Neutral
Yellow - Constant
Yellow and Green - Earth

In the bathroom the wires are wired up as

Red - Live (from switch)
Black - Constant
Yellow - Neutral
yellow and green - Neutral

Unblelievable - I would have been fired for doing such a thing, Swiss house electricians scare me!
No wonder why a certified electrician tried to make it work and failed. These things should be standard!
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  #43  
Old 27.03.2010, 13:01
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Re: Drilling into the ceiling to fix lights

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No wonder why a certified electrician tried to make it work and failed. These things should be standard!
Light up and working!
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  #44  
Old 27.03.2010, 13:24
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Re: Drilling into the ceiling to fix lights

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Actually you can't have the lights switching on the neutral, it's not possible, what is more probable is that the electrician mixed his wires up, a switch has to work on live it can't work on neutral.
Good point, well presented...

Swiss wiring scares me. An outside light had three yellow wires. One Neutral, One Live, One Earth....
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Old 27.03.2010, 14:15
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Re: Drilling into the ceiling to fix lights

Isn't it interesting that such a subject touches so many people

Anyway, all is working again. Socket always on (as expected). Lights coming on at the switch (as expected).

To think I studied Electronic Engineering (ok, over 20 years ago).
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  #46  
Old 27.03.2010, 14:34
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Re: Drilling into the ceiling to fix lights

Well, if you're still posting tomorrow, we'll know you've done it correctly.
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  #47  
Old 27.03.2010, 22:56
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Re: Drilling into the ceiling to fix lights

Have wired up lights in 3 houses in Switzerland now - first one (built by an guy who owned an electrical installation company and originally used the house as the family home) had all the wiring correct, but the 2nd and 3rd houses the wires were a complete lottery and would be illegal in the UK.
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  #48  
Old 27.03.2010, 23:41
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Re: Drilling into the ceiling to fix lights

Walls in our house here appear to be made of a substance harder than diamond. We've gone through about 5 very good drill bits just putting up a few shelves. What do they make them of???? And why? Is making houses of total impregnable material part of some grand scheme for self defence in the event of nuclear attack, or is it just a machivellian plan to keep the local handymen in handy employment doing things you should be able to do yourself?? Or is Switzerland also home of the global drill bit industry?? Answers on a postcard please..
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  #49  
Old 28.03.2010, 00:01
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Re: Drilling into the ceiling to fix lights

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Walls in our house here appear to be made of a substance harder than diamond. We've gone through about 5 very good drill bits just putting up a few shelves. What do they make them of???? And why? Is making houses of total impregnable material part of some grand scheme for self defence in the event of nuclear attack, or is it just a machivellian plan to keep the local handymen in handy employment doing things you should be able to do yourself?? Or is Switzerland also home of the global drill bit industry?? Answers on a postcard please..
I hate to ask this but are you using masonry/concrete bits?

Also if the concrete or masonry are polished or hardened you really need a "real" hammer drill. The bits, even if they are the correct type, get dull very fast when they are just spinning. It is the pounding of the hammer action that actually makes the hole. The turning action just keeps the location stable and clears out the debris, thus allowing you to make the hole deeper.

Lastly, if you are drilling into reinforced material, the metal isn't kind to drill bits. This includes very expensive ones.

Brian.
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  #50  
Old 28.03.2010, 00:43
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Re: Drilling into the ceiling to fix lights

You really need a good masonary drill bit (preferrebly diamond tipped if the walls are very resistant) and a good hammer drill, I spent a month installing a warehouse in the south of cornwall in an old railway service depot built out of stone 150 years ago, the drill I was provided with was sooo good and went through the stone like a hot knife through butter, I was so impressed that I brought the drill from them, 10 years later it's still going strong.
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  #51  
Old 28.03.2010, 08:48
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Re: Drilling into the ceiling to fix lights

Certainly, if my current drill, which is adequate, dies, I'll replace it with as high-powered a one as I can find.

To save your bits, you could try drilling a pilot hole, and keeping the drill bit cool. But some people consider this to be too much work. Alternatively, drill at a slower speed - this reduces any heat build up. Some advise not using cooling with masonry bits, because it could cause the bit to become brittle. I've not found this to be a problem, but ymmv.
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  #52  
Old 28.03.2010, 10:25
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Re: Drilling into the ceiling to fix lights

Last time I asked for a hole in the wall I got this:



Cheers,
Nick

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Yeah, Mr L and my son-in-law both find very important things to do elsewhere whenever they hear the dreaded words 'I just need a little hole in the wall'.
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  #53  
Old 28.03.2010, 11:30
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Re: Drilling into the ceiling to fix lights

Sackcloth and ashes for nickatbasel!
Back on Topic please sir!
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  #54  
Old 28.03.2010, 11:33
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Re: Drilling into the ceiling to fix lights

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Sackcloth and ashes for nickatbasel!
Back on Topic please sir!
Surely Nicks hole in the wall is a tool is needed to pay the sparky for the use of his hole in the wall tool

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Certainly, if my current drill, which is adequate, dies, I'll replace it with as high-powered a one as I can find.

To save your bits, you could try drilling a pilot hole, and keeping the drill bit cool. But some people consider this to be too much work. Alternatively, drill at a slower speed - this reduces any heat build up. Some advise not using cooling with masonry bits, because it could cause the bit to become brittle. I've not found this to be a problem, but ymmv.
If you need cooling and pilot holes for a 4 mm hole in a ceiling... you are most definately using the wrong tools. The power of the drill is not as critical as the quality of the bit, for most DIY tasks the Bosch ones (which have a tungsten tip and double helix arrangement) will make short work of most things, and only on rare occasions has my hammer drill seen action, and my percussion drill (and water lube kit) is still in the cellar.
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Last edited by Papa Goose; 28.03.2010 at 16:31.
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Old 28.03.2010, 11:39
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Re: Drilling into the ceiling to fix lights

I'm still alive ... and am not looking quite like my avatar today so I guess there's no mains voltage running through my body.
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  #56  
Old 28.03.2010, 11:45
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Re: Drilling into the ceiling to fix lights

After our chat yesterday I'm still chuckling at the Conehead vision, glad you got it sorted
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  #57  
Old 09.10.2010, 22:14
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Re: Drilling into the ceiling to fix lights

hey guys! we just moved into a new apartment in riehen and as expected we will need to install lights. We have no experience in fitting ceiling lights and so, after going through this thread, we are thinking of asking an electrician to do the job. Can anyone recommend a good handyman with reasonable rates?

thanks a lot!
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  #58  
Old 09.10.2010, 22:39
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Re: Drilling into the ceiling to fix lights

Page PG under Need DIY help or a spare pair of hands?
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  #59  
Old 28.11.2013, 16:44
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Re: Drilling into the ceiling to fix lights

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You can also get these Y like hooks which when pushed through the hole in the ceiling, can then be retracted flat into a T shape.
Where can I find these "Y like hooks"?
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  #60  
Old 28.11.2013, 17:51
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Re: Drilling into the ceiling to fix lights

I get my diy and household hardware at a bakery
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