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-   -   Does "Anteilscheine" mean "deposit"? (https://www.englishforum.ch/housing-general/8009-does-anteilscheine-mean-deposit.html)

bozothedeathmachine 31.05.2007 22:59

Does "Anteilscheine" mean "deposit"?
 
Obviously I don't speak German. However, my wife does and she also doesn't know what this word means in context. I found a flat online that's around 1700CHf, however the Anteilscheine is 9000CHf, which is really steep if it means "deposit".

Any ideas?

Nathu 31.05.2007 23:27

Re: Does "Anteilscheine" mean "deposit"?
 
It's a share certificate and I think it's not an unusual amount for building cooperations. Our rent is about 1000 Fr. and our share certificate is about 10'000 Fr., if I remember correctly. I can look it up tomorrow, if I don't forget it.

Building cooperations (Baugenossenschaft) are common among landlords in urban areas, historically they were founded to provide cheap appartments. Somebody had to invest money to build them and leasers take over a part of the investment for the time of their stay.

// Looked it up, it's 8000 Fr.

bozothedeathmachine 01.06.2007 00:36

Re: Does "Anteilscheine" mean "deposit"?
 
So that means 9000CHf up front for the pleasure of living there? Do you get that money back?

Nathu 01.06.2007 00:56

Re: Does "Anteilscheine" mean "deposit"?
 
Yes and yes.

bozothedeathmachine 01.06.2007 01:09

Re: Does "Anteilscheine" mean "deposit"?
 
One last teeny tiny question. I read in the "Living and Working in Switzerland" book that when deposits are made on flats they should collect interest. Is it the same with Anteilscheines as well?

Nathu 01.06.2007 01:43

Re: Does "Anteilscheine" mean "deposit"?
 
Interest is at least not a given, the handling is defined in each building corporation's articles of corporation. Some explicitely exclude interest on Anteilsscheine, others annually decide about the existence and height of an interest rate but say that it must be low enough to avoid Swiss stamp tax as a non-profit organisation.

bozothedeathmachine 01.06.2007 03:20

Re: Does "Anteilscheine" mean "deposit"?
 
Ok, I lied: I have more questions. Any idea what they do with that money? It seems pointless to leave it somewhere without it collecting anything. This whole idea is a bit strange to me. Unless of course if it does collect it, but that interest does not go to the tenant. That makes a lot more sense, but is just a way of masking inflating the rent.

Richard 01.06.2007 08:01

Re: Does "Anteilscheine" mean "deposit"?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bozothedeathmachine (Post 67643)
Ok, I lied: I have more questions. Any idea what they do with that money? It seems pointless to leave it somewhere without it collecting anything. This whole idea is a bit strange to me. Unless of course if it does collect it, but that interest does not go to the tenant. That makes a lot more sense, but is just a way of masking inflating the rent.

Hi It is not such a daft idea really. The money was originally paid to build the place. It therefore countered needing to take a loan with a bank, which might not have been possible. The correct English legal phrase is a certificate of participation and not a share certificate. A share certificate is a different type of legal document which has a free market value. Your piece of paper is tied to the living in the apartment and although you should be able to get your money back there is no guarantee. Furthermore there is no requirement to pay any kind of interest. The principle is identical to the so called shares in golf clubs where you pay $20'000 share, $5000 joining fee and $1000 per year membership. The share money was used to help build the place the joining fee you lose and the membership gives you the privilege. When you leave you sell your share to the new member.

Bartholemew 01.06.2007 08:12

Re: Does "Anteilscheine" mean "deposit"?
 
hi Bozo, my in-laws paid Sfr. 6000.- as an Anteilsschein for their flat in a cooperative-run building, which costs roughly 900.- rent monthly (their rent has actually gone down fractionally since they moved in one year ago). They don't or won't get interest on the amount when they move out and the money is returned to them, but it may vary from cooperative to cooperative. I would think the fact that Baugenossenschafts keep your rent stable even if housing prices go through the roof makes up for the fact that you might not earn interest on your deposit.

The idea of a Baugenossenschaft/cooperative, which is quite common in Zurich, was born out of the idea of ensuring rent stays stable and affordable, esp for families who might have a hard time finding a large enough apartment at an affordable price otherwise. My understanding of how the Baugenossenschaft use your Anteilsschein is to finance upkeep of their buildings and new projects.

I realize it may sound strange giving somebody so much money, but please keep in mind that Baugenossenschafts are actually not-for-profit organizations, so I doubt they would even be able to use your Anteilsschein money for, say securities arbitrage or something like that.

Nathu 01.06.2007 09:09

Re: Does "Anteilscheine" mean "deposit"?
 
Thanks to you two for explaining it further! Yes, the cooperative will invest the money from the Anteilsschein in existing or new buildings, or for other things benefiting the renters.

Also, because the cooperatives are socially oriented, they rent out adequately sized apparments. They won't give a 6 room appartment to a single person household.

Bartholemew 01.06.2007 09:42

Re: Does "Anteilscheine" mean "deposit"?
 
no worries, you did an excellent job of explaining its complexities. You are also correct to point out that Baugenossenschaft tend to be social-minded when they choose rentors, esp in regard to families.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathu (Post 67677)
Thanks to you two for explaining it further! Yes, the cooperative will invest the money from the Anteilsschein in existing or new buildings, or for other things benefiting the renters.

Also, because the cooperatives are socially oriented, they rent out adequately sized apparments. They won't give a 6 room appartment to a single person household.


bozothedeathmachine 01.06.2007 14:51

Re: Does "Anteilscheine" mean "deposit"?
 
Thanks everyone. It's making more sense now. I imagine keeping rent stable is a good thing in such a hot market. Now to just see if I can dig up the extra cash.

I appreciate all of the help.

Wakey 10.06.2007 22:16

Re: Does "Anteilscheine" mean "deposit"?
 
Nice thread, very helpful. I was looking for info on this subject but couldn't find anything using the search. Let me add some words so that it will show up in the search results: Anteilscheinkapital, Anteilschein :msnnerd:

Wakey 10.06.2007 22:27

Re: Does "Anteilscheine" mean "deposit"?
 
Oh just one more question...

Does the Anteilschein replace a deposit? Because if you'd have to pay for an Anteilschein + deposit you'd have to spend like 15.000 CHF before you can move into your cheap appartment...

Nathu 10.06.2007 23:03

Re: Does "Anteilscheine" mean "deposit"?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wakey (Post 70987)
Oh just one more question...

Does the Anteilschein replace a deposit? Because if you'd have to pay for an Anteilschein + deposit you'd have to spend like 15.000 CHF before you can move into your cheap appartment...

The Baugenossenschaft is still legally allowed to demand a deposit, but in practice this is extremely rare.

ocube 16.07.2009 21:45

co-operative housing [Anteilsscheine der Genossenschaft]
 
Hey Everyone

Does anyone know what 'Anteilsscheine der Genossenschaft' means? I am interested in an apartment and the details say I pay an amount which is 'Anteilsscheine der Genossenschaft' in place of a deposit (3% interest). From Google translation tool, I think it means co-operative housing but I am concerned it may not mean the same thing as a co-operative house in the UK.

Please if anyone understands this or has experience of this type of rent please give generous advice.

Warm Regards (28 & climbing)

ocube

Bartholemew 18.07.2009 12:40

Re: co-operative housing [Anteilsscheine der Genossenschaft]
 
hi Ocube, you will find a good explanation of how the cooperative system works here:
http://www.englishforum.ch/housing-g...n-deposit.html

ocube 19.07.2009 22:04

Re: co-operative housing [Anteilsscheine der Genossenschaft]
 
Thanks Bartholemew

You are such a lifesaver... I thought my question was going to set a record for longest unanswered post!

Have a lovely week

ocube

tomatisp 13.03.2015 11:44

Re: Does "Anteilscheine" mean "deposit"?
 
Does anyone knows how do you get the "Anteilscheine" back when you leave the country?

fatmanfilms 13.03.2015 12:00

Re: Does "Anteilscheine" mean "deposit"?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomatisp (Post 2357686)
Does anyone knows how do you get the "Anteilscheine" back when you leave the country?

Find someone to buy it from you.


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