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Old 16.05.2010, 13:57
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evicted, ousted, expelled, kicked-out, etc

Wondering if we've missed something, so I'm posting here for a clue or two. After 8 years of tenancy in the same apartment (Zürich) we are being asked to leave. We know from reading the mietverband website that they have to give us at least 3 months warning. We also understand that, as the circumstances involve a family-member of the landlord wanting our apartment there may not be a lot we can do.

If we are missing something obvious, it would be greatly appreciated if anyone has any hints for us regarding our options. But if the situation is what it is, then I guess I'm just taking the opportunity to vent.

(I now appreciate that having rented the same place for so long I had fallen sway under the illusion that it was my home.)
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Old 16.05.2010, 14:01
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Re: evicted, ousted, expelled, kicked-out, etc

If your landlord has given you the contractual notice , I don't think there is much you can do. This isn't eviction, merely a termination of the contract.

Sorry for your plight. Perhaps you can speak to the landlord and try to negotiate
a longer period so that the move is easier...
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Old 16.05.2010, 14:11
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Re: evicted, ousted, expelled, kicked-out, etc

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Wondering if we've missed something, so I'm posting here for a clue or two. After 8 years of tenancy in the same apartment (Zürich) we are being asked to leave. We know from reading the mietverband website that they have to give us at least 3 months warning. We also understand that, as the circumstances involve a family-member of the landlord wanting our apartment there may not be a lot we can do.

If we are missing something obvious, it would be greatly appreciated if anyone has any hints for us regarding our options. But if the situation is what it is, then I guess I'm just taking the opportunity to vent.

(I now appreciate that having rented the same place for so long I had fallen sway under the illusion that it was my home.)
Sorry to hear that.

Its one of the reasons why I can never feel settled in a rented home - dont make yourself too comfortable as its not yours.

Just make sure he gives you notice through the correct official channel (written, registered etc). Or if you are on good terms with him, try negotiating for some flexibility ie if you managed to find another suitable one earlier, the possibilty of ending the 3 months notice period earlier etc, or if he could help you guys write a strong reference.
Thats what happened with my previous landlord - he wanted his apartment back in 3 months, but I found something earlier and in both our interests, he helped call up the letting agency in charge of applications for my new flat and personally gave a verbal recommendation.

Worked out well in the end. Try to find a silver lining and work it to your advantage. Good luck in your search.
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Old 16.05.2010, 14:51
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Re: evicted, ousted, expelled, kicked-out, etc

@Upthehatters2008
No official notice yet, just the email equivalent of an "expression of interest". We will be talking with the landlords later today, so it is likely to become official very soon.

@summerrain
Thanks for the good advice, it puts us in a conciliatory frame of mind.
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Old 16.05.2010, 14:56
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Re: evicted, ousted, expelled, kicked-out, etc

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@Upthehatters2008
No official notice yet, just the email equivalent of an "expression of interest". We will be talking with the landlords later today, so it is likely to become official very soon.

@summerrain
Thanks for the good advice, it puts us in a conciliatory frame of mind.
Swiss friend had a rented holiday apartment in Sedrun (his birth place) for almost 30 years then got chucked out - it happens.
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Old 16.05.2010, 15:09
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Re: evicted, ousted, expelled, kicked-out, etc

Of course, you'll still get stitched up over the cleaning and deposit. Hmm... maybe that could be a negotiating point to leave quietly (should you have a leg to stand on, legally).
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Old 16.05.2010, 16:05
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Re: evicted, ousted, expelled, kicked-out, etc

My friend was helped by the Mieterverband when he got a registered letter by the owner of the building last year. The owner claimed "Eigenbedarf" His daughter wanted to move in. My friend can stay up to one year in his flat. The same happened to me two years ago and I asked for help as well. I could have stayed one year more but found another flat six months later. They even said there were cases where people could remain up to three years.
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Old 16.05.2010, 16:11
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Re: evicted, ousted, expelled, kicked-out, etc

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My friend was helped by the Mieterverband when he got a registered letter by the owner of the building last year. The owner claimed "Eigenbedarf" His daughter wanted to move in. My friend can stay up to one year in his flat. The same happened to me two years ago and I asked for help as well. I could have stayed one year more but found another flat six months later. They even said there were cases where people could remain up to three years.
I hear that the eviction process takes up to 3 years if you don't pay your rent...

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/E...ord-and-Tenant
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Old 16.05.2010, 16:26
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Re: evicted, ousted, expelled, kicked-out, etc

You can contest the termination within 30 days after receiving the registered letter. Your closest "Schlichtungsbehörde" will advise you.
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Old 16.05.2010, 17:28
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Re: evicted, ousted, expelled, kicked-out, etc

Just had a meeting with the son of the landlord. It's he who would like to take over the apartment. FWIW he gives us the strong impression that he feels pretty bad about asking us to leave. Indicated that he could be flexible regarding exactly when we go (knew about the 3 month limitation etc). We asked him for a few more days to discuss things and check out further options, to which he readily agreed. No official paper work exchanged yet.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and food for thought.

One detail: There is another apartment in the complex which is available, but his Dad has set the rent to chf 5000 furnished (4000 unfurnished) - which is waaaay more than we are paying for the current one - but it seems that his Dad isn't interested in doing a deal for his son. We figured out that we are being selected (out of five inhabited apartments in the building) because we pay the least rent (unfurnished). Over the last few years the landlord had been changing from unfurnished to furnished whenever there was a change of tenents, and upping the rent pretty stiffly. So I can see, from a profit-taking point of view, why he wants to be rid of us.
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Old 16.05.2010, 20:19
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Re: evicted, ousted, expelled, kicked-out, etc

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Just had a meeting with the son of the landlord. It's he who would like to take over the apartment. FWIW he gives us the strong impression that he feels pretty bad about asking us to leave. Indicated that he could be flexible regarding exactly when we go (knew about the 3 month limitation etc). We asked him for a few more days to discuss things and check out further options, to which he readily agreed. No official paper work exchanged yet.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and food for thought.

One detail: There is another apartment in the complex which is available, but his Dad has set the rent to chf 5000 furnished (4000 unfurnished) - which is waaaay more than we are paying for the current one - but it seems that his Dad isn't interested in doing a deal for his son. We figured out that we are being selected (out of five inhabited apartments in the building) because we pay the least rent (unfurnished). Over the last few years the landlord had been changing from unfurnished to furnished whenever there was a change of tenents, and upping the rent pretty stiffly. So I can see, from a profit-taking point of view, why he wants to be rid of us.
Aside from the rent, is there is another similar unit (same size) in the building that would be suitable? If there is nothing that makes your unit special (i.e. ground floor with a garden, for example), then you might want to consider doing battle. Paying the lowest rent is not a reason to kick someone out. "Eigenbedarf" extends to family members so this will not be a point you can use.

Sorry to hear about your situation and I hope you find a solution.

I'd certainly try and negotiate things like moving within the notice period without paying further rent. I would argue that you have moving costs plus a deposit on a new place, all unanticipated expenses.
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Old 16.05.2010, 22:20
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Re: evicted, ousted, expelled, kicked-out, etc

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Just had a meeting with the son of the landlord. It's he who would like to take over the apartment. FWIW he gives us the strong impression that he feels pretty bad about asking us to leave. Indicated that he could be flexible regarding exactly when we go (knew about the 3 month limitation etc). We asked him for a few more days to discuss things and check out further options, to which he readily agreed. No official paper work exchanged yet.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and food for thought.

One detail: There is another apartment in the complex which is available, but his Dad has set the rent to chf 5000 furnished (4000 unfurnished) - which is waaaay more than we are paying for the current one - but it seems that his Dad isn't interested in doing a deal for his son. We figured out that we are being selected (out of five inhabited apartments in the building) because we pay the least rent (unfurnished). Over the last few years the landlord had been changing from unfurnished to furnished whenever there was a change of tenents, and upping the rent pretty stiffly. So I can see, from a profit-taking point of view, why he wants to be rid of us.
I don't think I would 'fight' them for the apartment. That makes things so nasty when you actually do leave. And it seems like if the owner/landlord won't even deal with his own son, he won't deal with you either...

That being said, since it is obviously beneficial for the landlord/owner if you do move, you need to negotiate every single piece of the moving process that you can. Do it as much on your terms as it is on his. Negotiate the time frame for which you leave, the maximum they can charge you for 'damage', fees for moving, etc... Anything that you can foresee being a problem, you should get in writing before you start doing anything (aside from perhaps looking for a new place). Like we have said before, the landlord only looks out for himself. And only you can look out for you. Involve the mieterverband if you want, or don't if you think that you and the son can negotiate things cleanly. It seems like he is pretty willing to be flexible, which can only help you in the long run.

But since you have rights (like those previously have listed), then use the fact that you are 'not fighting' to make reasonable requests from them so that the move is as easy for you as possible. It sucks moving, we all know that, and especially after being there for so long. So make it worth your while.

And good luck! Keep us posted.
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Old 16.05.2010, 22:34
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Re: evicted, ousted, expelled, kicked-out, etc

Seems to me they are using Eignebedarf to get you out so they can re-rent it to someone else with a higher rent. Because once you are out, what is stopping the son from all of a sudden realize that he doesn't need the appartment?

I suggest you to go and talk to Mieterverband. Even though they can get you out, you have great chances to get an extension, especially if you have kids.
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Old 16.05.2010, 22:38
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Re: evicted, ousted, expelled, kicked-out, etc

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Seems to me they are using Eignebedarf to get you out so they can re-rent it to someone else with a higher rent.

I suggest you to go and talk to Mieterverband.
+1 for reaching to the MV first for advice.
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Old 17.05.2010, 07:49
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Re: evicted, ousted, expelled, kicked-out, etc

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One detail: There is another apartment in the complex which is available...
I am not sure, if your landlord is even legally entitled to evict you claiming "Eigenbedarf", when, at the same time, he has another apartment with similar qualities to yours sitting idle, ready for his son to move in, whenever he wants...

If you take this to the "Mieterverband", you might have a strong case to cause your landlord a good dose of headache and you might be able to negotiate yourself a few goodies on your moving out, or even stubbornly stay put for another few years (if you don't mind being on bad terms with your landlord, that is). IANAL, though.

The best of luck
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Old 27.05.2010, 19:36
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Re: evicted, ousted, expelled, kicked-out, etc - UPDATE

So I went to the Mietverband and had an interview with a lawyer there (so far, having met three different people there I can report they are very friendly, understanding and forgiving of my inability to speak more german than is required to order food and drinks or give directions).

The upshot of the conversation we had is that if our landlord pressed the issue, then we would be well within our rights to push back. The facts that there is an empty apartment of the size needed by the son in the building (about 100m2, his apartment in the building is about 60m2 - this is not enough for himself and his girlfriend), and that we are being targeted because we pay the least rent, seemed to be quite valid reasons for resisting the eviction. Therefore we no longer feel quite so much pressure and frustration.

As it stands we can very likely use this information to, as other posters have suggested, apply some leverage for when we do leave (i.e. get concessions). I would like to thank all the posters who gave me their advice in this thread, it has been wise, helpful and instructive. Thank you very much indeed.
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Old 27.05.2010, 19:38
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Re: evicted, ousted, expelled, kicked-out, etc

No worries, glad it made you feel better and relieved.
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Old 03.06.2010, 08:08
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Re: evicted, ousted, expelled, kicked-out, etc

update:

We met the landlords, asked for concessions, got enough concessions, so we're moving out pretty soon.

I still feel a little crappy about going though. I've moved around a lot in my life and I had lived in this place longer than I've lived anywhere else. It was the most "home" I ever had really.

Regardless, thanks EF, you were very helpful.
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Old 03.06.2010, 08:15
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Re: evicted, ousted, expelled, kicked-out, etc

You will find another home, don't worry.
Who knows what your future will bring, take it as another adventure.
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Old 03.06.2010, 08:17
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Re: evicted, ousted, expelled, kicked-out, etc

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So I went to the Mietverband and had an interview with a lawyer there (so far, having met three different people there I can report they are very friendly, understanding and forgiving of my inability to speak more german than is required to order food and drinks or give directions).


We met the landlords, asked for concessions, got enough concessions, so we're moving out pretty soon.

I am really glad that you were able to work things out in a way that is more or less acceptable for everyone. It was also good to hear that the Mieterverband was so helpful. That should give hope to a lot of people here at EF who have problems related to renting. There are so many questions posted here and there is also a lot of misunderstanding about what is allowed and not allowed. So, thanks for posting the update and I hope you find an even more "homey" home.
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