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Old 13.09.2010, 23:53
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Airing flats - are the Swiss crazy?

My flat rule says that we need to air the apartment 3~5 times a day, for 3~5 minutes each time. Do the Swiss really abide by this rule, what about winter? Do I have to come home during my lunch time to air the flat? That would explain why the Swiss have long lunches!
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Old 13.09.2010, 23:54
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Re: Airing flats - are the Swiss crazy?

Google up Schimmel.

schimmel [mould] problem with landlord

http://www.englishforum.ch/daily-lif...ngus-wall.html

Problem of Fungus in inbuilt Wardrobe

Landlord refuses to fix mold problem in apartment
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Old 14.09.2010, 00:10
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Re: Airing flats - are the Swiss crazy?

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Do the Swiss really abide by this rule, what about winter?
Especially in the winter..! That's when all the fungus grows best because of the heating and trapped moister in the apartment. I found that if I just leave one of my bathroom windows cracked open (half inch is enough) round the clock then my windows (and the air) stay nice and dry.
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Old 14.09.2010, 00:11
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Re: Airing flats - are the Swiss crazy?

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My flat rule says that we need to air the apartment 3~5 times a day, for 3~5 minutes each time. Do the Swiss really abide by this rule, what about winter? Do I have to come home during my lunch time to air the flat? That would explain why the Swiss have long lunches!

On most of the Hausordnung /House Rules I work with, and I have just written a set of rules for the furnished flats I manage, the airing is particularly important during the heating season. One version I looked up quickly says to air the rooms 3 to 4 times a day with the windows fully open for 5 to 10 minutes. They advise against leaving the windows on tilt.

What you will see is most opening the windows first thing in the morning, airing bedrooms in particular(hanging the duvets out the window) but certainly for more than just 5 minutes. A good airing in the morning is fine before you go to work and then once again when you get home.
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Old 14.09.2010, 00:15
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Re: Airing flats - are the Swiss crazy?

Crazy ? Not in my opinion, and a harsh word to tar the Swiss. I think your landlord is wise and the rules benefit both you and the landlord.

Give yourself a couple of months and you'd be right!
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Old 14.09.2010, 00:31
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Re: Airing flats - are the Swiss crazy?

Cheesy,

You are forgetting that as part of their efficient systems over here the properties are generally airtight, not like UK buildings that have gaps and draughts everywhere you look. If you dont open the windows you will never get any fresh air in the property and you will eventually die from either carbon dioxide poisoning or inhalation of fungal spores, of course which you would probably be either fined or charged for when vacating the premises
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Old 14.09.2010, 01:57
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Re: Airing flats - are the Swiss crazy?

Airing flats?!? I've never heard of that...Has anyone been fined as a result of not airing their apartments? Do we need to check for mold during a walk through so that we don't get blamed for "not airing".

Switzerland must be awesome, and I can't wait to get there in a couple weeks. But there are a great deal of rules.
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Old 14.09.2010, 02:02
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Re: Airing flats - are the Swiss crazy?

It is a good idea to check before you sign on the acceptance procedure for your apartment.

Here is a translated government webpage that describes the issue.

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Moisture and mold occur in Switzerland and other European countries in each fourth-fifth household. They range from small mold spots to frequently fogged windows, scale-mold and mildew growth in different rooms.

Moisture and mold can damage buildings and furnishings. Not only can in a relatively short time significant damage to the building, bringing the high remediation costs. There may be also difficult to be repaired damage, which ultimately reduce the value of the property.

The BAG is in common ownership out with the Swiss Tenants Association of MV, the homeowners association HEV Switzerland and the Swiss Association of Real Estate SVIT the brochure "Caution mold."

This guide to moisture and mold is aimed at decision makers and those with advisory functions, but also particularly interested stakeholders.

A flyer for the general population is currently being elaborated.

Both prints are included on the health effects of dampness and mold, and answer questions like:

How do we proceed as a tenant as a landlord mold growth? Is the mold problem in their own home, at a trifle or a serious problem?
What is a proper rehabilitation to respect?
How can you avoid moisture and mold the future?
Upon termination, a similiar procedure is applied and if it was your fault ( ie it happened during your tenancy ), you'd either pay or it is covered by your liability insurance cover.

A German PDF from the MV ( Tenants' Association ) is here.
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Old 14.09.2010, 06:17
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Re: Airing flats - are the Swiss crazy?

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My flat rule says that we need to air the apartment 3~5 times a day, for 3~5 minutes each time. Do the Swiss really abide by this rule, what about winter? Do I have to come home during my lunch time to air the flat? That would explain why the Swiss have long lunches!
If you aired the flat while you were physically there and nobody is there at lunchtime then it should not need it. It is important for some flats to be aired to prevent mould otherwise it would not be in the contract. Bathrooms and bedrooms are important. Rooms with an outside wall are often important. It was only specified for the bathroom in my contract for my place in Basel because the other rooms did not normally need it. In the lounge and corridor it was so dry during winter that there was a build-up of static.

Welcome to Switzerland and the world of rules. You will get used to it and learn to appreciate the better environment it creates for everybody.
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Old 14.09.2010, 06:28
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Re: Airing flats - are the Swiss crazy?

Don't most people leave their windows cracked open? We do most of the time, only when it freezes we might be airing our apt a few times a day, but most people here leave their windows cracked..Wouldn't it get stuffy otherwise?
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Old 14.09.2010, 06:59
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Re: Airing flats - are the Swiss crazy?

Oh! There is a rule for that? I just do it so I don't gag everytime I walk in the place, airtight windows, no ventilation, stuffy hot air, Swiss flats stink!
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Old 14.09.2010, 07:31
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Re: Airing flats - are the Swiss crazy?

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Airing flats?!? I've never heard of that...Has anyone been fined as a result of not airing their apartments?
Yes, people have had to pay for the damage.

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Do we need to check for mold during a walk through so that we don't get blamed for "not airing".
You need to check for everything. Don't even contemplate doing this alone - take an expert with you because you only find out what you missed on the "übergabe protokoll" at the "rückgabe". (handover and return of the apartment).

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Switzerland must be awesome, and I can't wait to get there in a couple weeks. But there are a great deal of rules.
Naw, not so many. The ones you mostly hear about are noise and recycling.
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Old 14.09.2010, 07:34
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Re: Airing flats - are the Swiss crazy?

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Airing flats?!? I've never heard of that...Has anyone been fined as a result of not airing their apartments? Do we need to check for mold during a walk through so that we don't get blamed for "not airing".
In the end it boils down to the wording of the contract.

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Switzerland must be awesome, and I can't wait to get there in a couple weeks. But there are a great deal of rules.
Oh boy. You are going to love it here!

Search the forum for similar rages against the rules.
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Old 14.09.2010, 07:36
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Re: Airing flats - are the Swiss crazy?

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Cheesy,

You are forgetting that as part of their efficient systems over here the properties are generally airtight, not like UK buildings that have gaps and draughts everywhere you look. If you dont open the windows you will never get any fresh air in the property and you will eventually die from either carbon dioxide poisoning or inhalation of fungal spores, of course which you would probably be either fined or charged for when vacating the premises
The only exception to this is if you live in a "Minergie Standard" flat. These buildings and homes do not require constant airing as due to the way they are built the air is constantly recirculated. Apparently, unlike with other flats, you can be away for weeks (when normally you need to continue to air your flat - it usually even says so in the contract) and you come home and the place is fine.

Well I must get back to opening the rest of the windows.

Last edited by Mrs. Doolittle; 14.09.2010 at 20:41. Reason: typo
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Old 14.09.2010, 07:44
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Re: Airing flats - are the Swiss crazy?

My tale on this is that the rule is there because the Swiss are pathologically shit scared of draughts. They get man flu or something.

Our windows are open most of the year.cIn our 1st year here (November) our housekeeper-type knocked on our door to warn us of heat loss through open windows. I was in shorts, t-shirt and bare feet and we had no radiators switched on...

Look around you in the morning: it's a nice UK day and the natives are bundled up already. I'm in short sleeves.
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Old 14.09.2010, 08:18
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Re: Airing flats - are the Swiss crazy?

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The only excpetion to this is if you live in a "Minergie Standard" flat. These buildings and homes do not require constant airing as due to the way they are built the air is constantly recirculated. Apparently, unlike with other flats, you can be away for weeks (when normally you need to continue to air your flat - it usually even says so in the contract) and you come home and the place is fine.
You wonder why the $wiss haven't simply voted for better building standards by now.
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Old 14.09.2010, 08:31
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Re: Airing flats - are the Swiss crazy?

All the Soviet-built flats I've seen/lived in Estonia had ventilation systems bult in them (leaving open widows at night when it's -30° and blowing snow isn't a good idea ). The central fan pushing the air never worked, but at least rooms had air ducts in them so you wouldn't suffocate at night. In the US most apartments I've seen have HVAC built into them as well, mainly for climate control. I'm kind of surprised Swiss architects build these air-tight cement boxes and then don't put any air vents into them
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Old 14.09.2010, 08:45
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Re: Airing flats - are the Swiss crazy?

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All the Soviet-built flats I've seen/lived in Estonia had ventilation systems bult in them (leaving open widows at night when it's -30° and blowing snow isn't a good idea ). The central fan pushing the air never worked, but at least rooms had air ducts in them so you wouldn't suffocate at night. In the US most apartments I've seen have HVAC built into them as well, mainly for climate control. I'm kind of surprised Swiss architects build these air-tight cement boxes and then don't put any air vents into them
Ours has a vent to the outside in the kitchen. Otherwise, with the Swiss-QualityTM hob extractor fan working at full blast, all the air would be sucked out of the flat and we'd all suffocate.
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Old 14.09.2010, 08:46
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Re: Airing flats - are the Swiss crazy?

As mentioned, often new buildings have a ventilation system built in. We have a 'Warm-gewinung' system that brings in fresh air constantly through a heat exchanger that recovers most of the heat from the exhaust air. This system also controls the moisture in the air coming in.

In a couple of the flats I lived in, there was problem with mould in hte bathroom, which I quickly resolved by re-painting the affected areas with mould resistant paint.

Also had probelms with heating where even with the thermostats set to the minimum the apartment was still a sauna. It's great to have our own place where we can control when the heating is on and the temperature. I too tend to be in t-shirts all year...
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Old 14.09.2010, 08:53
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Re: Airing flats - are the Swiss crazy?

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.... fungal spores, of course which you would probably be either fined or charged for when vacating the premises
S/hes not kidding.

But usually 5 minutes in the morning and at night when you get home is ok - especially in winter when the windows are closed a lot.

There has been a lot of discussion on here about whether or not mould is the fault of the landlord or tenant. The clause you mention is part of the CTA* system that the landlord adheres to.


*CTA = cover thy arçe
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