Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 14.09.2010, 15:24
esto's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CHE
Posts: 1,372
Groaned at 77 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 3,225 Times in 1,406 Posts
esto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond repute
Building House: Price of Land + House

I've been looking at plots of land to build a house on in a new development area, but seem to be missing something in the price equation. For ex: a plot of land costs 200,000 CHF, the "schlüsselfertig" house (ex: Stellahaus or Swisshaus) costs 300,000 CHF, so to me this adds up to 500,000. However when I see this same house/land combo being sold in a package, it's around 650,000 CHF

Where is this extra 150,000 coming from? I'm guessing maybe some utility connection fees or some other ancillary fees? Or just the convienience of having it available now as opposed to waiting to have it built? Or just a pure profit in someones pocket?

Last edited by esto; 14.09.2010 at 15:38. Reason: Fixed math
  #2  
Old 14.09.2010, 15:27
finesse's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 195
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 68 Times in 48 Posts
finesse is considered knowledgeablefinesse is considered knowledgeablefinesse is considered knowledgeable
Re: Building House: Price of Land + House

Quote:
View Post
i've been looking at plots of land to build a house on in a new development area, but seem to be missing something in the price equation. For ex: A plot of land costs 200,000 chf, the "schlüsselfertig" house (ex: stellahaus or swisshaus) costs 300,000 chf, so to me this adds up to 600,000. however when i see this same house/land combo being sold in a package, it's around 750,000 chf

Where is this extra 150,000 coming from? I'm guessing maybe some utility connection fees or some other ancillary fees? Or just the convienience of having it available now as opposed to waiting to have it built? Or just a pure profit in someones pocket?
200+300=600?
  #3  
Old 14.09.2010, 15:38
esto's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CHE
Posts: 1,372
Groaned at 77 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 3,225 Times in 1,406 Posts
esto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Building House: Price of Land + House

Quote:
View Post
200+300=600?
Doh! I meant 500! And then 650. Ops. Fixed it...
  #4  
Old 14.09.2010, 15:40
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,471
Groaned at 17 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,996 Times in 1,189 Posts
CH_Me has a reputation beyond reputeCH_Me has a reputation beyond reputeCH_Me has a reputation beyond reputeCH_Me has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Building House: Price of Land + House

I'd pay 100k more to have a completed house and not have the hassle of building. Have you ever gone through a building project?
The following 2 users would like to thank CH_Me for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 14.09.2010, 15:40
jaudi's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: zurich
Posts: 558
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 488 Times in 226 Posts
jaudi has a reputation beyond reputejaudi has a reputation beyond reputejaudi has a reputation beyond reputejaudi has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Building House: Price of Land + House

Quote:
View Post
For ex: a plot of land costs 200,000 CHF, the "schlüsselfertig" house (ex: Stellahaus or Swisshaus) costs 300,000 CHF, so to me this adds up to 600,000.
I would be happy to sell you a plot of land worth 200,000 and a schlüsselfertig house costing 300,000 for a total of 600,000


Quote:
View Post
Where is this extra 150,000 coming from? I'm guessing maybe some utility connection fees or some other ancillary fees? Or just the convienience of having it available now as opposed to waiting to have it built? Or just a pure profit in someones pocket?
Well, seems like you're comparing piece of land A with house build quote B against already built house C ? Maybe C has a better piece of land, or is in a better location, or has a better kitchen, or you're paying for the no-wait, or the no-risk, or..or..or...
  #6  
Old 14.09.2010, 15:43
The_Love_Doctor's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zugerberg, Zug
Posts: 3,265
Groaned at 72 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 3,700 Times in 1,746 Posts
The_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Building House: Price of Land + House

ignoring all other costs this would seem fairly reasonable the CHF150k on top is the premium for waiting for one to be built, I'm sure you're missing something there but even if you can build one for CHF650 including the land you're still quids/swissies in since this is your plan on a plot of land of your choice... obviously depending on the location which is probably out of the city if it's CHF200k and not necessarily that big. You're best bet is to speak to the bank if you're lending money, and consult the achitect they will point you to the exact costs.
  #7  
Old 14.09.2010, 15:46
esto's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CHE
Posts: 1,372
Groaned at 77 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 3,225 Times in 1,406 Posts
esto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Building House: Price of Land + House

Quote:
View Post
Well, seems like you're comparing piece of land A with house build quote B against already built house C ? Maybe C has a better piece of land, or is in a better location, or has a better kitchen, or you're paying for the no-wait, or the no-risk, or..or..or...
No, actually, I saw exactly this. The plot of land (in the sticks near Bern) was 200,000 CHF. If you want to buy the identical plot of land next to it with the 300,000 CHF Stellahaus on it the price is suddenly 650,000 CHF
  #8  
Old 14.09.2010, 16:31
Tom73's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: KnonauerAmt
Posts: 401
Groaned at 63 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 108 Times in 81 Posts
Tom73 is considered unworthyTom73 is considered unworthyTom73 is considered unworthyTom73 is considered unworthy
Re: Building House: Price of Land + House

This ist how developers make big money on the whole world. Buy land, put a house on it and sell it to the highest possible price.
In Switzerland it is very difficult to buy Land, usually developers or investors buy it to make big money.
  #9  
Old 14.09.2010, 17:42
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Building House: Price of Land + House

And as in the UK, prices vary hugely on location. Anywhere near Zurich or Geneva will be extortionate, to impossible to find. In the Jura it is much much cheaper- and in some Cantons of course, foreigners are not allowed to own property.

A friend has a beautiful plot to sell near Neuchatel, right by the lake- but has decided to build it himself and make more money that way. Of course I understand the desire to build your own and chose YOUR design and realise your dream. Bonne chance/viel Gluck.
  #10  
Old 14.09.2010, 18:58
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ticino
Posts: 2,993
Groaned at 93 Times in 65 Posts
Thanked 3,891 Times in 1,553 Posts
Snoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Building House: Price of Land + House

I would lay bets on the fact that the price of the "Schluesselfertig" house, does not include sorting out a driveway and the garden, probably excludes a garage/carport, is without the cellar and does not include the taxes you would need to pay the Gemeinde. The house that is already built may not be built to the minimum spec (i.e. flooring, appliances, etc). Prices in builders catalogues and price lists are generally a figment of their imagination and are rarely what you end up paying. The cost of the above charges could well run to almost CHF 150'000....
  #11  
Old 14.09.2010, 19:06
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,384
Groaned at 458 Times in 351 Posts
Thanked 23,088 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Building House: Price of Land + House

Hi,

I looked at building a house about 5 years ago, it seemed like an easy way to make some money house 299K plus land 175K, similar properties would sell for 650+.

However the 299 always turned into nearer 750K, you have to pay for a cellar, foundations, work on the ground. Connecting the water can cost 35K.

I came to the conclusion that I would spend well over 1 million to build a very ordinary house of 140m, needless to say I gave up.

Stephen
  #12  
Old 14.09.2010, 19:06
Papa Goose's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: was Ägeri now Froggeri
Posts: 3,711
Groaned at 191 Times in 160 Posts
Thanked 4,290 Times in 1,814 Posts
Papa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Building House: Price of Land + House

Would the total not comprise for a finished house not be:

land (200) + Kit (300)+ services + build (total 150)= 650k
  #13  
Old 14.09.2010, 19:19
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,384
Groaned at 458 Times in 351 Posts
Thanked 23,088 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Building House: Price of Land + House

Quote:
View Post
Would the total not comprise for a finished house not be:

land (200) + Kit (300)+ services + build (total 150)= 650k
Yes, but in reality it may cost way more.

I looked at a Webber house in Germany, special offer 129,000 euro, arranged a meeting with their Swiss agent. Price 700,000 CHF !"the electrics are different" was his response when I asked why it was so much more! I just got up & walked out, he was rather suprised & said I had wasted his time!
  #14  
Old 15.09.2010, 06:38
esto's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CHE
Posts: 1,372
Groaned at 77 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 3,225 Times in 1,406 Posts
esto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Building House: Price of Land + House

Quote:
View Post
Prices in builders catalogues and price lists are generally a figment of their imagination and are rarely what you end up paying. The cost of the above charges could well run to almost CHF 150'000....
Yea, that's what I'm guessing. Altho I did hear of some people actually building a house for around 500,000 CHF on the outskirts of Bern, it seems like it's quite difficult and alot of comprimises/cut-corners to be made if you want something that cheap (ie: very small house, no garage or cellar, no train/bus nearby, etc.)

...I'm going to meet up with the construction company building this development next week and bring the printouts of the 3 advertisements (land 200, house 300, and house+land 650) and see what he has to say
  #15  
Old 15.09.2010, 07:14
dawiz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 4,112
Groaned at 96 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 2,050 Times in 1,191 Posts
dawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Building House: Price of Land + House

Quote:
View Post
I've been looking at plots of land to build a house on in a new development area, but seem to be missing something in the price equation. For ex: a plot of land costs 200,000 CHF, the "schlüsselfertig" house (ex: Stellahaus or Swisshaus) costs 300,000 CHF, so to me this adds up to 500,000. However when I see this same house/land combo being sold in a package, it's around 650,000 CHF

Where is this extra 150,000 coming from? I'm guessing maybe some utility connection fees or some other ancillary fees? Or just the convienience of having it available now as opposed to waiting to have it built? Or just a pure profit in someones pocket?
We just completed a construction project, so here's some advice:

1. don't do it. It'll land you in intensive care with a heart attack. Buy a completed house instead

2. The prices you see on the websites of Swisshaus etc. aren't the final prices. They are fantasy price-tags to attract buyers. For example, if a kitchen is included, they'll put in 15'000 Fr. for that. The problem is: for that money, you don't get a kitchen in Switzerland. The 650'000 they charge for the completed house will include a decent kitchen (which starts at about 30'000 Fr. here) because they can't sell the house without one.

Also, the 500'000 for the "schlüsselfertig" don't include the (horrendous!) fees you'll be paying to your community for hooking up electricity, sewage, the land surveyor, electricity during the construction phase, planning permission etc. Those fees add up to between 30'000 and 60'000 Fr. depending on your community.

Then, depending on your plot, there will be substantial additional fees. For example, if the land is on a slope, that slope will need to be secured. That costs 20'000 - 50'000 Fr. Also excluded are the gardening and landscaping costs. If you need some basic landscaping (and no, you can't do that yourself as that involves moving around several tons of dirt), such as a paved drive-way, some plants around your house, tiles on your patio etc., add another 25'000.

The houses shown on Swisshouse etc. also typically don't include a cellar (add another 50'000). They're very basic, too - add another 25'000 for secure glassing, an alarm system, the lights around the house. Then another 15'000 for solar collectors.

I think you get the point now. The numbers I was using aren't made up - that's about what things cost us. It's just not worth it.

We didn't have much choice in the matter - we inherited the plot our house was built on. So it was basically a matter of having to pay property tax for the plot or to construct a house on top if it and stop paying rent. The catalog price for our house was 500'000 and we ended up paying 650'000 for the house, including fees and taxes. That was just for the house, though - the land would have been another 750'000 (land's insanely expensive in the Lake of Constance area). We contributed the kitchen ourselves (had a German company build it), so those 15'000 were deducted from the initial costs. Apart from that, the modifications we did to the original plans were Ethernet-wiring, solar panels, secure glassing on the ground floor, an alarm system and additional electricity sockets.

The whole construction process was tedious and nerve-wrecking - despite the fact that that we had a general contractor. You still constantly have to be on the construction site to make sure the sub-contractors don't screw you. Also, there's no construction project without issues. We had some water coming down the slope so we had to add additional isolation around the cellar. This lead to the cellar being too tightly insulated -> now the humidity from the inside (e.g. from the washing machine and the dryer) can't go anywhere -> constantly need to run an air-dryer, driving up electricity bills). Several times, some sub-contractors screwed up, things had to be fixed etc.

If you're serious about construction, I'll P.M. you more details concerning our general contractor (we chose one of the bigger ones, but not Swisshaus).

Peter

Last edited by dawiz; 15.09.2010 at 08:59.
The following 9 users would like to thank dawiz for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 15.09.2010, 07:27
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Building House: Price of Land + House

Quote:
View Post

The numbers I was using aren't made up - that's about what things cost us. It's just not worth it.


Peter
I'm not sure you can say "it's not worth it" I think you really need to know what is what before proceeding, making sure your contract is with one contractor who then may or maynot sub-contract as he decides. The price needs to be for a finished house with living permit included. Alternatively find an independant to take care of the building work and supervise, it will cost money, maybe 3,4 or even 5% of the cost, but this is a cost like any other and you have peace of mind.

One of the most imporant things to remember and NEVER forget is the rather distasteful glee that the Swiss take when screwing foreigners, it's their national sport !
  #17  
Old 15.09.2010, 07:57
dawiz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 4,112
Groaned at 96 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 2,050 Times in 1,191 Posts
dawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Building House: Price of Land + House

Quote:

I'm not sure you can say "it's not worth it" I think you really need to know what is what before proceeding, making sure your contract is with one contractor who then may or maynot sub-contract as he decides. The price needs to be for a finished house with living permit included.
One of the most imporant things to remember and NEVER forget is the rather distasteful glee that the Swiss take when screwing foreigners, it's their national sport !
Believe me, they screw natives just as much as foreigners - I grew up here and some of the sub-contractors constantly tried to cheat and deceive us during the whole construction process.

Unfortunately, in Switzerland it's quite impossible to "outsource" the dealings between you and the community to some contractor. We had a general enterprise / contractor for the construction process. They'll take care of most of the business that's directly construction-related. The rest is your business, no matter what. Also, all Swiss construction contractors work in accordance to the SIA general contract. That contract massively favors the contractors and essentially blames the home owners for everything that can possibly go wrong. Any kind of issue during the construction phase will be billed to you directly. Believe me - there are reasons why normal legal insurance almost always excludes construction contracts.

If you really are insane enough to have your own house constructed, make sure you hire a very good lawyer to check all the involved contracts or you'll be screwed badly.

Peter

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
  #18  
Old 15.09.2010, 08:10
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ticino & London
Posts: 2,013
Groaned at 171 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 1,139 Times in 628 Posts
Cashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Building House: Price of Land + House

Normal building in the south of UK was:

1/3 Cost of Land
1/3 Building
1/3 Profit

So I would assume the CHF150,000 is the profit for the developer.
Financing the land and building materials and labour before selling the property.
And though very few business (certainly in the UK) are making a profit, the intention believe it or not is to make a profit.
To build a house from a plot of land with planning permission to finish by a small builder does appear to take a year to complete as a one off project.
So I don't know what salary you are on (I gather you don't work for nothing and that you don't actually outlay any of your own monet except your travel costs to get to work); but to take the risk of buying a plot building a house on it (i.e. financing the CHF500,000 outlay) I would say CHF150,000 for a year for a builder is a fair markup.
__________________
I do not have friends..........I have contingent liabilities
  #19  
Old 15.09.2010, 08:19
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,233
Groaned at 105 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 9,934 Times in 4,178 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Building House: Price of Land + House

Quote:
View Post
No, actually, I saw exactly this. The plot of land (in the sticks near Bern) was 200,000 CHF. If you want to buy the identical plot of land next to it with the 300,000 CHF Stellahaus on it the price is suddenly 650,000 CHF
Just because it is next to it does not make identical. We are having a house built at the moment, and plot/house prices varied depending on position, including items such as distance from mains, electricity, land contours, sewage, bombshelter tax etc. Our fees are in the region of 40,000-50,000 CHF.

You do, as mentioned above, need to consider benefits of a completed house and you also don't know of any extras they may have added to the completed house. And you don't know if the purchase fees are included in the completed house (i.e. transfer of ownership, notary fees taxes etc.), although these are not usually included (i.e. you have to pay them).

As a final point, in an unbuilt house, they will give you some flexibility to make changes to the layout, as long as the major dimensions stay the same. This costs money, so they factor in some give. Certainly the architect on our house has completely revamped our house plans based on our needs and requirements. All in a fix-fertig price. We've also, had to pay in the region of 30,000 in extras.

All that is to say there's a lot of variables in there that you cannot get from an on-line comparison.
__________________
Never let right or wrong get in the way of a good opinion

Last edited by Carlos R; 15.09.2010 at 08:46.
  #20  
Old 15.09.2010, 08:43
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Building House: Price of Land + House

Quote:
View Post
Believe me, they screw natives just as much as foreigners - I grew up here and some of the sub-contractors constantly tried to cheat and deceive us during the whole construction process.
At least they are not racist in this respect, if they can get away with it they will do ! However, being local and speaking the language, it does remove some of the risk.
 




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Building a house - plans are missing basic electrical outlets question_tennant Housing in general 38 31.05.2010 18:52
House Building Book or Publication ? Guest Housing in general 3 09.01.2008 11:41
Building a house to rent out... rachvdg Housing in general 6 29.11.2007 14:10


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0