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Old 14.09.2010, 17:26
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'Mistakenly' Signed Contract Woe

During the mad search for a place to live so that the family would join me, one place I looked at was a just refurbished flat in a Genossenschaft in North Zurich.

Long story short, I went to their offices the day before going on holiday and ended up signing something - I thought it was an 'understanding' ('promesse') rather than a full blown contract, and they were due to send the 'real' contract to me whilst on holiday in France (they did in fact send a load of papers to my France holiday address).

I was pretty sure I had not finally 'signed' as:
1. The document was entitled 'Vereinbarung Mietvertrag und Mitgliederschaft'.
2. I was the only one who signed (my partner did not, her name was on the contract as well).
3. The document had a line in bold 'Umtriebensentschaedigung bei Vertragsannulation: Fr. 200.00' that I took to mean I had to pay 200 CHF if I backed out of the agreement.

Less that two weeks after signing, I called them up to say that unfortunately we could no longer take the flat. The next day I sent up a followup e-mail.

Then last night I recieved an invoice from them for one month's rent and 800 CHF in other costs (Homegate ad etc).

I've been told by colleagues at work that it seems as though I did in fact sign a contract, and that 'unlucky' as I am, it could have been worse, they could have charged me 3 months' rent!

Am I totally screwed, do I just have to face up to this and pay (somehow - no way I can pay it now, in fact the onlt way I could pay would be in installments I think). I'm not happy about this, about making such a stupid mistake and also having to pay loads of money, but I am aware I am a foreigner in Switzerland....

Any suggestions?
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Old 14.09.2010, 17:30
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Re: 'Mistakenly' Signed Contract Woe

Have you explained the confusion to the Agent?

Can you argue that they didn't explain it to you clearly? Kick up a fuss etc.

I hope it works out for you.
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Old 14.09.2010, 17:33
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Re: 'Mistakenly' Signed Contract Woe

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During the mad search for a place to live so that the family would join me, one place I looked at was a just refurbished flat in a Genossenschaft in North Zurich.

Long story short, I went to their offices the day before going on holiday and ended up signing something - I thought it was an 'understanding' ('promesse') rather than a full blown contract, and they were due to send the 'real' contract to me whilst on holiday in France (they did in fact send a load of papers to my France holiday address).

I was pretty sure I had not finally 'signed' as:
1. The document was entitled 'Vereinbarung Mietvertrag und Mitgliederschaft'.
2. I was the only one who signed (my partner did not, her name was on the contract as well).
3. The document had a line in bold 'Umtriebensentschaedigung bei Vertragsannulation: Fr. 200.00' that I took to mean I had to pay 200 CHF if I backed out of the agreement.

Less that two weeks after signing, I called them up to say that unfortunately we could no longer take the flat. The next day I sent up a followup e-mail.

Then last night I recieved an invoice from them for one month's rent and 800 CHF in other costs (Homegate ad etc).

I've been told by colleagues at work that it seems as though I did in fact sign a contract, and that 'unlucky' as I am, it could have been worse, they could have charged me 3 months' rent!

Am I totally screwed, do I just have to face up to this and pay (somehow - no way I can pay it now, in fact the onlt way I could pay would be in installments I think). I'm not happy about this, about making such a stupid mistake and also having to pay loads of money, but I am aware I am a foreigner in Switzerland....

Any suggestions?
yes unlucky you have to pay, but lucky not 3 months rent.

maybe call them and come to an arrangement. maybe they waive part of it and you pay something like 400chf. worth a try.
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Old 14.09.2010, 17:37
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Re: 'Mistakenly' Signed Contract Woe

depends how long you left it before getting back to them to say you weren't gonna take it... I guess they are not happy about you turning around and not signing the document, and if you left it right after the beginning of when the contract was supposed to start. I would say it's only fair they charge you for the first month's rent and whatever costs they incurred because of you promising to take such a contract. I don't know exactly what you signed but from the sound of it you agreed to it in principle and had the contract been available at the time and your wife been there at the time you would have signed and unfortunately from a neutral percpective at least, you should pay them something...

Maybe you can offer to pay them something and try and find someone who can take the contract on your behalf?
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Old 14.09.2010, 17:44
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Re: 'Mistakenly' Signed Contract Woe

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During the mad search for a place to live so that the family would join me, one place I looked at was a just refurbished flat in a Genossenschaft in North Zurich.

Long story short, I went to their offices the day before going on holiday and ended up signing something - I thought it was an 'understanding' ('promesse') rather than a full blown contract, and they were due to send the 'real' contract to me whilst on holiday in France (they did in fact send a load of papers to my France holiday address).

I was pretty sure I had not finally 'signed' as:
1. The document was entitled 'Vereinbarung Mietvertrag und Mitgliederschaft'.
2. I was the only one who signed (my partner did not, her name was on the contract as well).
3. The document had a line in bold 'Umtriebensentschaedigung bei Vertragsannulation: Fr. 200.00' that I took to mean I had to pay 200 CHF if I backed out of the agreement.

Less that two weeks after signing, I called them up to say that unfortunately we could no longer take the flat. The next day I sent up a followup e-mail.

Then last night I recieved an invoice from them for one month's rent and 800 CHF in other costs (Homegate ad etc).

I've been told by colleagues at work that it seems as though I did in fact sign a contract, and that 'unlucky' as I am, it could have been worse, they could have charged me 3 months' rent!

Am I totally screwed, do I just have to face up to this and pay (somehow - no way I can pay it now, in fact the onlt way I could pay would be in installments I think). I'm not happy about this, about making such a stupid mistake and also having to pay loads of money, but I am aware I am a foreigner in Switzerland....

Any suggestions?
The Swiss are pretty good at agreeing to "payment arrangements". Don't panic, give them a call. Be pleasant (not emotional, the Swiss are quite reserved) and they may even let you off, or reduce the amount. In either case you should be able to work something out. Good Luck....
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Old 14.09.2010, 17:47
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Re: 'Mistakenly' Signed Contract Woe

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The Swiss are pretty good at agreeing to "payment arrangements". Don't panic, give them a call. Be pleasant (not emotional, the Swiss are quite reserved) and they may even let you off, or reduce the amount. In either case you should be able to work something out. Good Luck....

let you off??? LOL, have you never delt with estate agents??

thats a fairly cheap lesson learnt, never, ever sign somthing when you don't know what it is.
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Old 14.09.2010, 17:49
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Re: 'Mistakenly' Signed Contract Woe

At worst you are in breach of contract and you are liable for consequential financial loss. If they have not sufferred any loss (because they have rented it out and not actually lost any rent) , at worst you will be liable for a small admin charge.

If they did not rent it out, then you are liable for rent due until they do , or until the contractual notice period is served.

Ask when they rented it out. Get copies of the contract. Make a fuss.
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Old 14.09.2010, 18:26
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Re: 'Mistakenly' Signed Contract Woe

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depends how long you left it before getting back to them to say you weren't gonna take it... I guess they are not happy about you turning around and not signing the document, and if you left it right after the beginning of when the contract was supposed to start. I would say it's only fair they charge you for the first month's rent and whatever costs they incurred because of you promising to take such a contract. I don't know exactly what you signed but from the sound of it you agreed to it in principle and had the contract been available at the time and your wife been there at the time you would have signed and unfortunately from a neutral percpective at least, you should pay them something...

Maybe you can offer to pay them something and try and find someone who can take the contract on your behalf?
I 'signed' Fri 16th Jly, and called to say I could not take the flat Thu 29th Jly (and sent a followup e-mail the next day); the rental was due to start Mon 16th Aug.

I well understand them not being happy; the phone call to tell them this was not something I enjoyed doing. What I thought I had signed for was an agreement of intention (similar to what you woudl sing when buying a house in France or the UK) to rent. I agree I have to pay something, but I don't want to and cannot even if I did pay what they are asking me to pay. Also I genuinely misunderstood (not their problem, I know).

They did find a renter it seems, otherwise the admin person here who deals with a lot of contracts reckons they'd be asking me for 3 months' rent!
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Old 14.09.2010, 18:34
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Re: 'Mistakenly' Signed Contract Woe

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At worst you are in breach of contract and you are liable for consequential financial loss. If they have not sufferred any loss (because they have rented it out and not actually lost any rent) , at worst you will be liable for a small admin charge.

If they did not rent it out, then you are liable for rent due until they do , or until the contractual notice period is served.

Ask when they rented it out. Get copies of the contract. Make a fuss.
They're charging me for the rent of August (1st - 31st) and then admin charges for renting the place. However I was only due to rent the place from the 16th onwards.

Originally I was hoping they were 'fishing' as I thought I'd never signed a rental contract; I was prepared to pay, but mroe along the lines of 200-300 CHF that I'd miostakenly thought I'd have to pay when looking at what I'd signed.

Whereas now, I'm checking if there are loopholes, and failing that how to reduce the amount and also spread the payments. So they insist on all of it by the end of the month, then there's a problem as I just do not have the cash.

A *very* expensive and unhappy lesson (I did like the flat as well).
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Old 14.09.2010, 18:35
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Re: 'Mistakenly' Signed Contract Woe

How can you sign anything and not think you signed anything... you only generally ever sign anything on a document if you are entering into something... especially where housing is concerned. If you're not sure what you are signing, then don't sign.

As suggested, try and call them and plead ignorance... maybe they'll reduce it if you're lucky.
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Old 14.09.2010, 18:39
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Re: 'Mistakenly' Signed Contract Woe

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They're charging me for the rent of August (1st - 31st) and then admin charges for renting the place. However I was only due to rent the place from the 16th onwards.

Originally I was hoping they were 'fishing' as I thought I'd never signed a rental contract; I was prepared to pay, but mroe along the lines of 200-300 CHF that I'd miostakenly thought I'd have to pay when looking at what I'd signed.

Whereas now, I'm checking if there are loopholes, and failing that how to reduce the amount and also spread the payments. So they insist on all of it by the end of the month, then there's a problem as I just do not have the cash.

A *very* expensive and unhappy lesson (I did like the flat as well).

Is the "16th" in the contract ? If so , advise them and ask them for a correction in their bill. This will give you time.

When the new bill arrives , ask to see when the place was rented and demand to see a copy of the new contract with the signature and date.

If there is continuity between the old renter leaving, and the new renter starting, they have sufferred no financial loss and thus they have no case against you.

Ask for their legal representatives address , and a name too. This will tell them you are serious , and even answering a call or getting a letter from their legal reps in response toy your contact with the legal team will cost them, if they are bluffing legally speaking, they will avoid getting costly lawyers in on a dodgy case.

From now on, all correspondance with these people should be via registered post.


DO NOT ASK FOR TIME TO PAY, in writing or in an email.
DO NOT SAY YOU MADE A MISTAKE

Both of the above are an admission of guilt and will weaken any case you have.
Keep them busy with questions, push them for answers.
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Old 14.09.2010, 18:42
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Re: 'Mistakenly' Signed Contract Woe

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They're charging me for the rent of August (1st - 31st) and then admin charges for renting the place. However I was only due to rent the place from the 16th onwards.

Originally I was hoping they were 'fishing' as I thought I'd never signed a rental contract; I was prepared to pay, but mroe along the lines of 200-300 CHF that I'd miostakenly thought I'd have to pay when looking at what I'd signed.

Whereas now, I'm checking if there are loopholes, and failing that how to reduce the amount and also spread the payments. So they insist on all of it by the end of the month, then there's a problem as I just do not have the cash.

A *very* expensive and unhappy lesson (I did like the flat as well).
Hey, I got a document in German here that requires your signature - when are you free to meet?

Sorry, couldnt resist - I really am sorry about this mess you're in but we are fark up from time to time. See if you can speak to them and offer to pay for the homegate ad and the adminstrative fees but not the first (or half) month's rent as they managed to find another tenant that quickly.

You've signed on the dotted line - as far as this country is concerned, thats iron clad. You just need to try very hard in getting them on your side now and hopefully practice some flexibility and compromise. Are you planning to look for a flat again in the meantime? If so, try and get it from their database. Might ease their ability to compromise even more. Good luck.
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Old 14.09.2010, 18:52
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Re: 'Mistakenly' Signed Contract Woe

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How can you sign anything and not think you signed anything... you only generally ever sign anything on a document if you are entering into something... especially where housing is concerned. If you're not sure what you are signing, then don't sign.
I'm not disputing that I signed something; however what I signed was not what I thought I signed. Yes my stupid mistake, I'm just trying to ensure I don't pay heavily for it. Also the clause about 200 CHF really threw me.

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As suggested, try and call them and plead ignorance... maybe they'll reduce it if you're lucky.
Someone from work already tried that. I'm wondering whether I should play hardball as someone suggested, or be concilaitory and try to come to an understanding. Whichever oen I choose is sure to be the wrong approach
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Old 14.09.2010, 19:02
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Re: 'Mistakenly' Signed Contract Woe

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Is the "16th" in the contract ? If so , advise them and ask them for a correction in their bill. This will give you time.

When the new bill arrives , ask to see when the place was rented and demand to see a copy of the new contract with the signature and date.

If there is continuity between the old renter leaving, and the new renter starting, they have sufferred no financial loss and thus they have no case against you.

Ask for their legal representatives address , and a name too. This will tell them you are serious , and even answering a call or getting a letter from their legal reps in response toy your contact with the legal team will cost them, if they are bluffing legally speaking, they will avoid getting costly lawyers in on a dodgy case.

From now on, all correspondance with these people should be via registered post.


DO NOT ASK FOR TIME TO PAY, in writing or in an email.
DO NOT SAY YOU MADE A MISTAKE

Both of the above are an admission of guilt and will weaken any case you have.
Keep them busy with questions, push them for answers.
Good points you made here, it got me thinking, the contract was for the 16th of the month, which in itself is a little unusual, particularly for rental agencies.

So it is possible that the last renter left outside of the usual moving dates or perhaps didn't give the obligatrory three months notice and were themselves made to pay the full three months rent after moving, so there is the chance that the rent was already paid up till the end of August anyway.

The next thing I would do is make serious enquiries about the previous tenants and there whereabouts, might make the agency squirm a bit if there was a crossover.

Good luck.
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Old 14.09.2010, 19:16
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Re: 'Mistakenly' Signed Contract Woe

Actually the block of flats had just been completly refurbished, and we were to be the first new tenants of this particular flat (appearently the Genossenschaft didn't want the old tenants back). So the flat was still empty (and there work was still going on on the building).

Originally the start date was to be 1st Aug, but I asked if it would be possible to change that to the 16th.

So they defintely 'lost' 2 weeks rent; no idea if they lost more (I suspect not, I imgaine the place was quickly rented).
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Old 14.09.2010, 19:33
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Re: 'Mistakenly' Signed Contract Woe

You could argue that the contract is not binding as the parties stated on the contract did not sign. As such you are willing to pay 200 CHF as a sign of good faith but if they want more then they would need to legal action.

There was no contract until all parties had signed, irrespective of the intent.
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Old 14.09.2010, 19:38
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Re: 'Mistakenly' Signed Contract Woe

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How can you sign anything and not think you signed anything... you only generally ever sign anything on a document if you are entering into something... especially where housing is concerned. If you're not sure what you are signing, then don't sign.
You sign the application.

Which usually has mention of the CHF 200 cost if you don't take the place if they offer it. This is what confused the OP.

But yes, we must be careful signing papers in a foreign language. Contracts are strict here, but so is their implementation. As mentioned above, if not all parties signed the document, it is not valid.

Be friendly when pointing this out. The Swiss don't react well to strong approaches.
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Old 14.09.2010, 19:44
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Re: 'Mistakenly' Signed Contract Woe

I am sorry for your misunderstanding. If it is any consulation, posting your mistake is going to be very helpful for people like me. It is good to know what to avoid. I could have easily done the same thing without reading this post first.
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Old 14.09.2010, 21:27
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Re: 'Mistakenly' Signed Contract Woe

There is no excuse for signing a document written in a language that you do not understand. Pay up and consider the fact that you have learned a lesson.
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Old 14.09.2010, 23:32
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Re: 'Mistakenly' Signed Contract Woe

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There is no excuse for signing a document written in a language that you do not understand. Pay up and consider the fact that you have learned a lesson.

Where's you humanity..... If the real estate agent have suffered no real loses then a little compassion would go along way. it was an honest mistake and one that the OP didn't think and may still not be binding.
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