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Old 04.07.2007, 16:16
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termination of rental contract.

I have to leave my job and this is something we could decide only on 29th June in discussion with my employer. I am leaving this country forever in September end and going back to India with no job in hand. I had given a fax to my landlord for termination of the contract, sent an einscriben letter on the same day and also gave a copy to caretaker in the building.

In my typical swiss rent contract with 3 exits possible in the year with 3 month notice, it was signed by both me and my wife. However this letter was signed by me only (in hurry). Now the landlord say that since it was not signed by my wife as well the letter came later than last working day of the June, they can not consider this as a sufficient notice. I find this very unreasonable since in a way it was informed and notice was given. Also I tried to call them however they are available only on Wednesday afternoon. Now landlord wants us to pay till Mar 08, the next exit day. Of course I can not afford to pay such money. I would like to understand my legal rights. Can anybody guide here.

Also should I stop paying rent for August and September since I am sure that landlord will not clear my deposit of 3 months. The building is really old and it may not be easy to get another tenant immediately.

Kt
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Old 05.07.2007, 00:21
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Re: termination of rental contract.

its quite obvious that your landlord is after you. he sees you as easy bait. its never good to tell a landlord that you are leaving the country because they will try to scam you. even more so, considering you are a foreigner.

legally you can not "withhold" or as we say "live-out" your deposit. Also if you live out 2 months rent what happens to the rest of the deposit? = plus taxes and court fees you will have to pay.

im pretty sure your notice was valid the first time. your wife's signature does not have to be on it as you are married. she can confirm that she agreed with your original letter if the owner needs it, but the owner can not use this as a means to not let you out of your contract.

i think you should contact your local tenant association for help. and take lots of pictures before you leave, even video that you left the apartment in working condition. if i know landlords he's going to ask for a big chunk or your deposit.

good luck
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  #3  
Old 05.07.2007, 00:38
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Re: termination of rental contract.

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im pretty sure your notice was valid the first time. your wife's signature does not have to be on it as you are married. she can confirm that she agreed with your original letter if the owner needs it, but the owner can not use this as a means to not let you out of your contract.
You're pretty wrong.
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Old 05.07.2007, 11:18
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Re: termination of rental contract.

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im pretty sure your notice was valid the first time. your wife's signature does not have to be on it as you are married. she can confirm that she agreed with your original letter if the owner needs it, but the owner can not use this as a means to not let you out of your contract.
I agree with Shorrick... I've recently let out my apartment (I am now an Auslander landlord in Switzerland ), and I got the following text (translated) from http://www.hev-schweiz.ch/, to put in the contract I wrote up for the tenants:
§ 3. Notice in respect of a family apartment - Obligation to notify
3.1. In the case of family apartments, the notice is only valid:
3.1.1. for the landlord: if it is sent to both spouses separately
3.1.2. for the tenant: if it is signed by both spouses.
3.2. If the recipient of the notice finds that this notice does not comply with the existing regulations, he is obliged to
draw this to the attention of the other party within 5 days of receipt.
3.3. The tenant is under obligation to inform the landlord of any changes of status (marriage, divorce, death of
marriage partner) and any changes of address and of the address of the spouse (e.g. in the case of separation)
within a reasonable period.
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Old 05.07.2007, 11:30
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Re: termination of rental contract.

have you tried talking to the landlord? Whilst he's operating to the letter of the law, he might actually be reasonable if approached.

Also offer to help advertise the apartment - present enough possible replacements and you should be able to walk.
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Old 05.07.2007, 11:34
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Re: termination of rental contract.

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im pretty sure your notice was valid the first time. your wife's signature does not have to be on it as you are married. she can confirm that she agreed with your original letter if the owner needs it, but the owner can not use this as a means to not let you out of your contract.
I don't think so. My wife has to sign a lot of contracts we enter into together, taxes, leases, apartment applications, etc.

The landlord is obviously a stickler for the rules, which is unfortunate, but I don't think it's a legal notice of termination without both signatures.
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Old 05.07.2007, 11:36
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Re: termination of rental contract.

Sorry, but Javo is wrong.

The termination notice must be signed by all tenants who originally signed the rental agreement.

Additionally, if the registered letter did not reach the landlord by the last working day of June then it is also invalid.

The law is on the side of the landlord. You need to try and negotiate the best you can out of a bad situation. I would offer him 1 months additional rent to terminate the contract at the end of September and see what he says.

Good luck
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Old 05.07.2007, 11:44
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Re: termination of rental contract.

interesting thread..

what would happen if you are fired by your company with immediate effect ( justifiable causes), unable to get unemployment money and therefore had to move to another country? how would the rental contract/causes be affected? Would this abrupt employment termination affect your tenancy?

ta
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Old 05.07.2007, 11:49
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Re: termination of rental contract.

If you left today and just went, you could simply kiss goodbye to your deposit and leave. That's partly why deposits exist - to protect the landlord.

The OP, however, wants to give notice (which he has done but failed to do correctly) and leave in 3 months.
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Old 05.07.2007, 12:06
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Re: termination of rental contract.

Your employee problems should have no effect on your rental contract. Why should it ? Its nothing to do with the landlord if you were intimate with the bosses wife on his office desk and he found out and kicked you down the street...

If you get fired and are insured ALV, then you should find it quicker to get unemployment cash than if you resigned.

dave



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interesting thread..

what would happen if you are fired by your company with immediate effect ( justifiable causes), unable to get unemployment money and therefore had to move to another country? how would the rental contract/causes be affected? Would this abrupt employment termination affect your tenancy?

ta
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Old 05.07.2007, 12:26
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Re: termination of rental contract.

I have a closely related question. Is it legal for a landlord to require FOUR months notice to terminate the rental contract? I recently tried to terminate ours, and was told that I could not because I was only giving three months notice and I needed to give four months. I had assumed that it was three, but on the rental contract it does state that four months is necessary. However, if I can show that there is a rule about not being allowed to require more than three months then that would be very nice. BTW, we live in canton Vaud if that makes a difference.
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Old 05.07.2007, 12:45
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Re: termination of rental contract.

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I had assumed that it was three, but on the rental contract it does state that four months is necessary.
That's what contracts are for... to ensure that everything is decided in advance! It has nothing to do about 4 months notice being illegal - if it was agreed in the contract, even a week's notice would be legal. That being said, in your case, if you end before your 4 months are up, you are, quite simply, in breach of contract , which doesn't give you a very strong legal position!

Even if there was a rule somewhere that restricts the notice period to 3 months, you signed the contract, agreeing to its terms...
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Old 05.07.2007, 12:57
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Re: termination of rental contract.

Mmm I dont know about this, but I think that there are certain areas of contract law in which special conditions apply. Employment is one, and I have a feeling rentals is another.

Some contracts have notice periods of three months to be given only on four dates a year. That means you have to decide at worse-case six months in advance of moving

dave


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That's what contracts are for... to ensure that everything is decided in advance! It has nothing to do about 4 months notice being illegal - if it was agreed in the contract, even a week's notice would be legal. That being said, in your case, if you end before your 4 months are up, you are, quite simply, in breach of contract , which doesn't give you a very strong legal position!

Even if there was a rule somewhere that restricts the notice period to 3 months, you signed the contract, agreeing to its terms...
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Old 05.07.2007, 13:07
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Re: termination of rental contract.

Took a quick look into the Mieterveband ["tenants and landpersons associacion"] home page to see what are they recommendations for cessation of contracts. It is availble only in the official languages of the country:
www.mieterverband.ch

If i understood correctly what it is said, it is indeed possible to bail out prematurelly, according to this procedure (in German language, sample of letter and checklists included):
http://www.mieterverband.ch/1554.0.html

Basically, you have to provide the landperson with a list of potential candidates to rent the flat. Then *someone* takes over your contract and responsabilities and you are free to go. Please note that for married couples BOTH partners must sign the notice letter. The same applies for shared flats: ALL parties must sign it.

In case you run into problems, there is an hotline you can contact. Telephone is 0 900 900 800 (Fr. 3.70/Min.).

It is a very good idea to become a member of the Mieterverband, considering the quantity of problem that you might run into. Being a foreigner and not knowing too well the law just makes dishonest tenants life easier.... For Kanton Zurich, there is an offer right now, and membership for an year costs you app. Fr 70.

Good luck and please let us know the outcome of this.

Lucy

@ChrisW - what does your contract say about leaving? I had allready several notice periods ranging from 1 to 4 months...
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Old 05.07.2007, 13:43
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Re: termination of rental contract.

thanks for so many inputs. I understand legally I might be on the weaker side since I forgot to get the wife signature and letter reached on 2nd July since 30 june and 1st July was weekend. I tried to speak to my landlord but they are only available in Wed afternoon. She is still very adamant and say if you want to go to Mieterverband pl carry on. I have offered help to find tenant but she say you have to or pay till March 08. However how does legal side takes the view...
1. I had sent the fax on 29th June afternoon and I have the activity confirmation report from my fax machine.
2. My deposit is for 3 months. Worst come I have no problem if the deposit is taken off. What are liablities if I just the leave apartment and leave switzerland. Do I get the betriebung in my new country since this address is not valid. I have no plans to comeback to this country as such.
thanks guys....
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Old 05.07.2007, 14:21
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Re: termination of rental contract.

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thanks for so many inputs. I understand legally I might be on the weaker side since I forgot to get the wife signature and letter reached on 2nd July since 30 june and 1st July was weekend. I tried to speak to my landlord but they are only available in Wed afternoon. She is still very adamant and say if you want to go to Mieterverband pl carry on. I have offered help to find tenant but she say you have to or pay till March 08. However how does legal side takes the view...
1. I had sent the fax on 29th June afternoon and I have the activity confirmation report from my fax machine.
You aren't on a "weaker" side legally - you have no foot to be standing on. Contract termination has a legally prescribed form (both signatures + registered mail); failure to observe it leaves you at the mercy of the landlord. He can accept your resignation, but he certainly does not have to.

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2. My deposit is for 3 months. Worst come I have no problem if the deposit is taken off. What are liablities if I just the leave apartment and leave switzerland. Do I get the betriebung in my new country since this address is not valid. I have no plans to comeback to this country as such.
thanks guys....
Why don't you try to find another tenant, which would discharge you of your obligations with a month's notice. I notice you put very little if any effort of your own in it; you'd much rather run away from it.
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Old 05.07.2007, 14:31
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Re: termination of rental contract.

That's certainly how I got into my flat so promptly; the previous tenant had a contract until July 1st, but he was already moved out and so advertised for a replacement tenant - I was ready to move in on the 15th May, so he paid up to the 14th and I took over payments from that point on.
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Old 05.07.2007, 15:38
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Re: termination of rental contract.

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<snip>Basically, you have to provide the landperson with a list of potential candidates to rent the flat. Then *someone* takes over your contract and responsabilities and you are free to go.<snip>
Yep, that is what our current plan is (if we do still decide to move). I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't some rule that our contract contravened (it does explicitly say 4 months) that meant that we could hand responsibility over to our landlord to find someone himself, but I guess that is not the case. However, we don't expect it will be a problem to find someone to take it from us, so it is not a big deal. Thanks for the info, everyone.
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Old 05.07.2007, 17:14
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Re: termination of rental contract.

I also would have taken the route. However my building is really old, has even mold on walls from external side as well internal..so it wont be easy to find tenant.
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Old 05.07.2007, 17:22
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Re: termination of rental contract.

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I also would have taken the route. However my building is really old, has even mold on walls from external side as well internal..so it wont be easy to find tenant.
Have you even tried?
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