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  #21  
Old 18.08.2015, 13:44
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Re: Plans on abolishing the excess (franchise) in 2016?

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But then, if you fell seriously sick and went to an hospital, you had to pay 20k chf by yourself or there was some additional fund paid by the employer?
You'd pay by yourself.

But 20k is a gross exaggeration, the few times I've been in hospital it barely got above my franchise.

Tom
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  #22  
Old 18.08.2015, 13:51
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Re: Plans on abolishing the excess (franchise) in 2016?

I see the franchise matter differently: Ppl won't go to see GP because it will cost tem 400 for example. But if ppl do that a lot, some of them will end up in the hospital and will cost the insurer 20k chf +. Which is better then? Lower/abolish the franchise and let people be treated for 400 chf and go home happily or deny them the lesure of visiting the doctor (he is paid to do his job for Christ sake) and put their well being at risk (along with much higher costs of healing compared to prevention)?

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You'd pay by yourself.

But 20k is a gross exaggeration, the few times I've been in hospital it barely got above my franchise.

Tom
Did you have any chirurgical procedure? Did you have to use any specialized equipment? Any special medicines? Did you have to use an ambulance?
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  #23  
Old 18.08.2015, 13:55
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Re: Plans on abolishing the excess (franchise) in 2016?

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Did you have any chirurgical procedure?
Why else would I go to the hospital?

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Did you have to use any specialized equipment?
Ditto.

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Any special medicines?
Also.

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Did you have to use an ambulance?
Once, but the insurance only paid half anyway.

Tom
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  #24  
Old 18.08.2015, 13:58
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Re: Plans on abolishing the excess (franchise) in 2016?

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Why else would I go to the hospital?



Ditto.



Also.



Once, but the insurance only paid half anyway.

Tom
It was in the 90s right? Now multiply the costs by 5 and you'll get what you would pay nowadays
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  #25  
Old 18.08.2015, 14:06
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Re: Plans on abolishing the excess (franchise) in 2016?

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You'd pay by yourself.

But 20k is a gross exaggeration, the few times I've been in hospital it barely got above my franchise.

Tom
My hospital bill was around 40,000chf ... actually less than I expected! All on accident insurance thank god!
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  #26  
Old 18.08.2015, 14:10
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Re: Plans on abolishing the excess (franchise) in 2016?

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It was in the 90s right? Now multiply the costs by 5 and you'll get what you would pay nowadays
Last year in fact.

The couple other times, within the past ten years.

Never in the '90s.

Tom
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  #27  
Old 18.08.2015, 14:24
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Re: Plans on abolishing the excess (franchise) in 2016?

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Die heutigen Rabatte seien höher als die Kostenersparnis, welche die Krankenkassen dank der Franchisen erzielten. Die Kassen würden die Rabatte nur deshalb so hoch ansetzen, weil sie damit gesunde Junge anlocken wollten.
What a bullshit statement by Berset.

To say that the insurers give so much rebate that the young they attract cost more than they pay can only come from an SP Bundesrat. If that was true the coldcalls would stop immediately.

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nothing was organised.
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And the insurance companies were more competitive because of that.

I didn't have it for several years.

Tom
Utter nonsense.

The health insurance system was based on the law from 1911

There used to be four (perhaps five) categories, children, 18-40, 40-65, elder than 65. Children paid nothing (they were automatically with the same insurer as their parents), the premiums the young paid were higher than justified by the risk, while the old paid less. However, premiums did increase with getting older. In effect the young helped finance health cost for the old. Plus, it was deemed that the young built reserves they would draw from when getting old (yes, the same money was accounted for twice).

The deciding factor for the premium wasn't your biological age, but rather the age group you joined a given insurer at (as a grownup). (I seem to remember that it was the actual age you joined the insurer at, as opposed to the age group, but I don't remember how that was taken into account, so let's ignore this possibly false memory).

So if you didn't switch the insurer after turning 39, you would keep paying the premiums of the young adults for the rest of your life. Thus people aged 40+ were effectively bound to their insurer, which limited competition to the youngest group.

That competition led to negative risk selection, creating a vicious circle for the insurers with relatively many (costly) old members and a virtuous one for those with a big portion of the young:
Because membership wasn't mandatory the insurers were allowed to refuse applications. Since benefits were defined by the law, and thus costs fairly pre-defined for a given group, it was advantageous to have proportionately many young as that led to low premiums. This in turn would attract additional young people, which led to even lower premiums. The other insurers were faced with an ever-increasing share of old members and thus increasing per-member costs. A self-reinforcing circle that led to ever-increasing differences in premiums.

Obviously, the current system is ineffective at resolving the vicious circle.
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  #28  
Old 18.08.2015, 14:59
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Re: Plans on abolishing the excess (franchise) in 2016?

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Last year in fact.

The couple other times, within the past ten years.

Never in the '90s.

Tom
Tom....Are you trying to tell us that in the country in which a simple garage mechanic charges you 200chf to change 4 tires for you, you'd play less than 2500 chf for, ie appendix removal and subsequent week of reconvalescence where the materials alone cost thousands, not to mention a service of highly skilled chirurg who earns per year a sum starting with 2 followed by 5 zeroes? Now imagine a transplant, a subdural hematoma removal ect. You were probably treated in the ward for bloody nose or flu fever man
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  #29  
Old 18.08.2015, 15:15
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Re: Plans on abolishing the excess (franchise) in 2016?

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a simple garage mechanic charges you 200chf to change 4 tires for you
CHF 60 around here.

(and he lends me tools for free, borrowed a 12pt Torx today so I can remove the rod bolts on the R90S that been sitting in my garage)

I haven't had an appendix removed, but I did have some carpal tunnel surgery on my LH wrist, as well as a bursitis removed from above my RH knee (but SUVA paid that), plus some manly stuff.

Tom
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  #30  
Old 18.08.2015, 15:27
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Re: Plans on abolishing the excess (franchise) in 2016?

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CHF 60 around here.

(and he lends me tools for free, borrowed a 12pt Torx today so I can remove the rod bolts on the R90S that been sitting in my garage)

I haven't had an appendix removed, but I did have some carpal tunnel surgery on my LH wrist, as well as a bursitis removed from above my RH knee (but SUVA paid that), plus some manly stuff.

Tom
Hope you are well now The point still stands though. It should be far more profitable to prevent the fire than to extinguish it later.
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  #31  
Old 18.08.2015, 16:07
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Re: Plans on abolishing the excess (franchise) in 2016?

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I wonder if they law actually says that, or it's simply that it has to be Swiss approved and therefore no other providers find it worthwhile/cost effective to bother?

I argued the question for 4 years before getting Swiss insurance. No backdating either neither party won or lost, that's the outcome the government wanted.
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  #32  
Old 18.08.2015, 18:46
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Re: Plans on abolishing the excess (franchise) in 2016?

Your position is legitimate (a bit american maybe), but say that one day you discover you have a rare illness and you need some monoclonal antibody drug that cost 100k per year, the typical swiss person would like to be insured for that and would also like to not have to see a person dying of that only because they can't afford it. I mean you can disagree with the system but this reform doesn't introduce anything new or worse imho so I don't see why one should be against it, yes less discount but if that's what the insurers actually save from the higher franchises it should make sense.
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