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Old 31.01.2017, 17:56
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Duped by an insurer

Hello,

Late 2015 an insurer came to my house and present me some interesting things about a health insurance and convicted me to make the health survey and then signed it in order to receive a proposal (that I will need to sign again to change my insurance). I never heard about him until now.

January 2017 I receive a 4000chf bill from the insurance and now they say that I am insured with them because I signed something. So I have been duped by the insurer and he makes all the document from my back and now I have two insurance.

After a call with the insurance they are ok to not insure me with the base insurance but want me to pay the complementary.

So my question is, what can I do? Can I sue the insurer for duped me (I have a legal expenses insurance)? The other insurance is trying to force me signed with them in 2018 as the only option.
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Old 31.01.2017, 17:58
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Re: Duped by an insurer

Difficult as you probably signed your agreement for this with that document
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Old 31.01.2017, 18:07
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Re: Duped by an insurer

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After a call with the insurance they are ok to not insure me with the base insurance but want me to pay the complementary.
did you complete the health questionnaire for the complementary insurance?
if not, ask them if they accept you with no exceptions
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Old 31.01.2017, 18:19
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Re: Duped by an insurer

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did you complete the health questionnaire for the complementary insurance?
if not, ask them if they accept you with no exceptions
I ask them to show me what I signed because I don't remember. Isn't it a law that can cancel a contract signed under dupery? Because I am almost sure that his manager will agree with us because my girlfriend has had the same problem with him and his manager said that he was fired because he made a mess with his clients.
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Old 31.01.2017, 18:22
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Re: Duped by an insurer

Not talking to random unsolicited salesmen is a basic rule of financial hygiene.

Did they at least inform how much you'd be paying before they accepted you in back in 2015 This is one of insurer's obligations. If you learned about the price only now, there's a chance to fight.
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Old 31.01.2017, 18:25
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Re: Duped by an insurer

Yet again on EF:

DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND 100%
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Old 31.01.2017, 18:27
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Re: Duped by an insurer

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Not talking to random unsolicited salesmen is a basic rule of financial hygiene.

Did they at least inform how much you'd be paying before they accepted you in back in 2015 This is one of insurer's obligations. If you learned about the price only now, there's a chance to fight.
I would never ask advice to a random insurer, he came because my girlfriend told him to then I decided to just check at what they can offer and why not receive a proposal that I could decline.

No he didn't mention the price because it was only a health survey in order to know if I could be insured with the other insurance (Helsana) and receive a proposal that I never received until the bill came last month.
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Old 31.01.2017, 19:02
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Re: Duped by an insurer

If they didn't inform you about the price and other condition of the contract, they violated Art. 3 VVG. This gives you a right to back out of the contract - see the following Art 3a VVG. But there seem to be a tight deadline to apply it: 1 year since violation, which might as well be over by now.

Another more general law that can apply is Art 24.3 OR.

Best check with lawyers from your legal insurance. They should be able to help you write an appropriate letter to contest the contract. This might be free, or not, depending on legal insurer, but it'd be almost nothing compared to 4000 Fr x 5 years minimum contract duration that you may potentially be looking at here.
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Old 01.02.2017, 23:01
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Re: Duped by an insurer

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I would never ask advice to a random insurer, he came because my girlfriend told him to then I decided to just check at what they can offer and why not receive a proposal that I could decline.
Proposals don't need a signature, only contracts do. It's like this in any country AFAIK.
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Old 01.02.2017, 23:24
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Re: Duped by an insurer

Please read this thread: Health insurance, legal advice

Problem in your case is that this was way back. But still strange that you never recevived any bill, other form of communication, nor an insurance card. YOu may use this facts to your advantage.
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Old 02.02.2017, 10:15
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Re: Duped by an insurer

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Proposals don't need a signature, only contracts do. It's like this in any country AFAIK.
Not at all, contracts don't require the written form. I'm very positive the same applies just about everywhere.

You conclude contracts almost daily without signing anything, for instance when buying stuff, whenever you use your debit or credit card or the ATM, etc.

The signature simplifies proving that there is indeed a contract and what was agreed upon, but in most cases it's not a necessity.
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Old 02.02.2017, 13:17
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Re: Duped by an insurer

Lesson number 1 for life: NEVER sign anything you don't understand. It's really not that difficult a rule to live by.

I fail to see where you were duped (that is obviously based on the information you provided here). You filled some questionnaire, with that you likely signed some agreement, well too bad, but your fault and yours alone. I don't think you'll get out of it. The practices may have been questionable, but they often are and you are a grown individual who simply should have known better.

There is no general law that would allow you to cancel a contract "signed under dupery". Not to mention that there probably was no "dupery" at all.

That being said, not having received anything (bills, card, communication of any form) for a year may work in your favor. It may not, but it's worth a shot. Ask them for a copy of whatever stuff you filled and signed, then take it from there.
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Old 02.02.2017, 17:32
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Re: Duped by an insurer

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There is no general law that would allow you to cancel a contract "signed under dupery". Not to mention that there probably was no "dupery" at all.
Actually there is.

Code of obligations §23:
"Art. 23 F. Defect in consent / I. Error / 1. Effect
A party labouring under a fundamental error when entering into a contract is not bound by that contract."

The problem of course lies in proving that you were in error.
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Old 02.02.2017, 17:42
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Re: Duped by an insurer

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The problem of course lies in proving that you were in error.
If you didn't know the price (especially) and conditions of the contract before signing up, I think that qualifies. It's the company's turn then to prove they informed you. Which they can only do if they sent such conditions by registered mail (never seen them do it), or it was somewhere in the piece of paper you signed. The latter can be clarified after you get the copy of it, but I'd behave and write to them already as if it had no such information.
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Old 02.02.2017, 17:57
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Re: Duped by an insurer

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If you didn't know the price (especially) and conditions of the contract before signing up, I think that qualifies. It's the company's turn then to prove they informed you. Which they can only do if they sent such conditions by registered mail (never seen them do it), or it was somewhere in the piece of paper you signed. The latter can be clarified after you get the copy of it, but I'd behave and write to them already as if it had no such information.
And your source is?

Hint:
This isn't banking or financial advice where the bank/adviser indeed has to prove certain information was provided.
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Old 02.02.2017, 18:07
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Re: Duped by an insurer

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Yet again on EF:

DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND 100%
I'd also add - do not sign anything on the spot. Ask to keep the paperwork so you can go through it in your own time.
You may think you understand it when you don't.
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Old 03.02.2017, 07:55
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Re: Duped by an insurer

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And your source is?

Hint:
This isn't banking or financial advice where the bank/adviser indeed has to prove certain information was provided.
No, actually, it's relatively easy to force them to provide proofs: simply reject their Betreibung with a Rechtvorschlag: no contract exists. If they want to proceed with debt collection, they'd have to cough up documents to prove otherwise. Disadvantage is that it'd cost you more in the end if you turn out to be the loser in the court
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Old 03.02.2017, 07:56
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Re: Duped by an insurer

Here's very similar case I found: http://www.gerichte.sg.ch/home/diens...kv-2012-4.html

Successfully won based on Art. 23 (error in concluding a contract) / Art. 28 (deception) OR
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Old 03.02.2017, 09:05
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Re: Duped by an insurer

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I signed something.
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No, actually, it's relatively easy to force them to provide proofs: simply reject their Betreibung with a Rechtvorschlag: no contract exists. If they want to proceed with debt collection, they'd have to cough up documents to prove otherwise. Disadvantage is that it'd cost you more in the end if you turn out to be the loser in the court
There's no law or regulation (except for banking) that forces the seller to prove anything other than that there is a contract. Which they probably can given that the salesman is quite unlikely to ask for a signature for anything other.
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Old 03.02.2017, 09:23
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Re: Duped by an insurer

Price is quite an important part of contract. Without it, or an objective way to determine it (e.g. law allows using middle market price for commodity goods) there's no contract. A contract allowing the seller to charge anything he wants would be void - for example by Art 24.3 OR.
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