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  #21  
Old 30.06.2017, 22:15
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

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Which all seems a bit crap to me. Why should you have to pay for insurance that you are never going to use because you are covered in your country of residence just because you draw a Swiss pension?
It's quite frankly ridiculous.
I agree, it does seem absurd. The only plus is that, by continuing to pay the Swiss medical insurance, one is also still entitled to be treated in Switzerland, were one ever to want that.... and be healthy enough to return to Switzerland for the treatment.
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  #22  
Old 01.07.2017, 10:35
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

This thread made me think... On retirement my largest State pension will be the AVS.

However, as a frontalier, my case is different as I've never lived in Switzerland or paid Swiss health insurance. I can't believe that I'll suddenly have to start paying it when I retire.

Mind you, it would be better than the 8% of net income that I currently pay into the French system... It's all so complicated.
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  #23  
Old 01.07.2017, 10:35
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

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I agree, it does seem absurd. The only plus is that, by continuing to pay the Swiss medical insurance, one is also still entitled to be treated in Switzerland, were one ever to want that.... and be healthy enough to return to Switzerland for the treatment.
Or be able to afford the flight and accommodation during the treatment.
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  #24  
Old 01.07.2017, 11:50
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

Over the last couple of weeks there were a few articles on swissinfo.ch about pensions for auslanders and swiss who have left the country.
One example was http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/scapegoa...broad/43283258

The impression I am getting is that the Swiss are not happy paying money to the former Italians and others who worked hard here during their youth and then returned home for a peaceful retirement in their own environment.

They need to claw back as much as they can and keep it in Switzerland by whatever means. Healthcare being just one.

Perhaps there is a dodgy dirt cheap Krankenkasse company which exists that has no real coverage, but helps you comply with rules to take your pension in the UK? Maybe one of those annoying ones that telephone you randomly.
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Old 01.07.2017, 11:59
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

I am confused now. I thought that you would have to take out health insurance from the country you lived in longest (and get a pension from), not the country that sends you the highest amount of state pension?
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  #26  
Old 01.07.2017, 11:59
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

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Over the last couple of weeks there were a few articles on swissinfo.ch about pensions for auslanders and swiss who have left the country.
One example was http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/scapegoa...broad/43283258

The impression I am getting is that the Swiss are not happy paying money to the former Italians and others who worked hard here during their youth and then returned home for a peaceful retirement in their own environment.

They need to claw back as much as they can and keep it in Switzerland by whatever means. Healthcare being just one.

Perhaps there is a dodgy dirt cheap Krankenkasse company which exists that has no real coverage, but helps you comply with rules to take your pension in the UK? Maybe one of those annoying ones that telephone you randomly.
That could be a possible reason if they applied it to everyone but they don't. They don't have the same rules, some nationalities have to continue paying Swiss health insurance and some don't. Making pensioners pay for health insurance doesn't really make any difference to the pension situation does it?
What is the point of paying Swiss health insurance if you can't even use it?

Last edited by Belgianmum; 01.07.2017 at 14:37.
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  #27  
Old 01.07.2017, 12:01
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

From that article: “We give them a golden handshake and the next generations will have to foot the bill,” she adds.

?? I worked hard for that pension !!
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  #28  
Old 01.07.2017, 12:29
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

Agreed, and yet, this seems to make some sense:

'politicians from the centre-right and the right have called for pensions to be adapted to the living costs of the countries of residence of the recipients.'


seems a bit unfair that recipients of Swiss pensions abroad in countries where property, rents, food, and all basic costs are much much lower- and therefore able to live a life of luxury- should perhaps have pensions adapted ?!? I certainly wish it would happen for those of us retired here on foreign pensions for sure
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  #29  
Old 01.07.2017, 12:32
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

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That could be a possible reason if they applied it to everyone but they don't. They don't have the same rules some nationalities have to continue paying Swiss health insurance and some don't. Making pensioners pay for health insurance doesn't really make any difference to the pension situation does it?
What is the point of paying Swiss health insurance if you can't even use it?
It is all one big pot.
The money stays in the system and the country does not leak.
When you get social help for example - all the money you receive goes directly back into the system. Round and round.
When you are out of the country, then this is a loss to Switzerland.
Making pensioners pay health costs that they will never use, just keeps the money here.
This is my simplistic take on economics
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  #30  
Old 01.07.2017, 12:37
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

So if those living abroad are indeed paying for Swiss health insurance and thus contributing to the Swiss economy, someone needs to explain that to the FDP's Petra Gössi:

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/editoria...broad/43291506

After she floated the idea of cutting pensions for those living abroad, sparking outrage from all sides, she has... ahem... clarified her initial statement:

Article on her clarification:
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/scapegoa...broad/43283258

Earlier article when she floated the idea:
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/intervie...ement/43299502


The FDP seemed surprised by the reaction and has backed away. But in an era where pension reform is perhaps inevitable - those likely to (have to) leave Switzerland when retired should keep an eye on further pension discussions.
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  #31  
Old 01.07.2017, 12:58
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

When you look at the average basic Swiss pension versus the cost of the Krankenkasse. Subtract the two. Does not leave you much to live on if you are outside a third world country.

Without EL and other 2nd pillar top ups it is only a subsistance allowance in this country.
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  #32  
Old 01.07.2017, 13:38
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

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What is the point of paying Swiss health insurance if you can't even use it?
You can use it, that is the point. The NHS has a long wait for many procedures, being privately insured you can go privately & pay the excess of your choice. As premiums are not based on age it's a good deal. My mother is paying £8000 a year private health insurance aged 88 in the UK.
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  #33  
Old 01.07.2017, 13:49
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

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You can use it, that is the point. .
Do you mean that a retired person living in the UK, who is forced to pay Swiss medical insurance in Switzerland, would be able to use that insurance to cover private (= ex-NHS) medical consultations in the UK? Even for non-emergencies? So that they wouldn't need to return to Switzerland to make use of their Swiss compulsory medical insurance?
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  #34  
Old 01.07.2017, 13:50
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

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Sorry I don't at the moment, I just remember reading it somewhere and thinking - oh boy another time bomb waiting to go off...
I don't want to change the direction of this thread - it's a very good one.
But I even had problems determining my domicile when applying for an ETA for a vacation in Canada last week.

I have both passports, but let one expire.
Domicile London or Linden BE?
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  #35  
Old 01.07.2017, 13:52
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

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Do you mean that a retired person living in the UK, who is forced to pay Swiss medical insurance in Switzerland, would be able to use that insurance to cover private (= ex-NHS) medical consultations in the UK? Even for non-emergencies? So that they wouldn't need to return to Switzerland to make use of their Swiss compulsory medical insurance?
Of course they can use any medical facilities in the UK or emergency cover anywhere in Europe. The price of the insurance is based on the country of residence, likely far cheaper than Swiss rates.
Marton shared a link a couple of years ago, I wish I could find it.
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I don't want to change the direction of this thread - it's a very good one.
But I even had problems determining my domicile when applying for an ETA for a vacation in Canada last week.

I have both passports, but let one expire.
Domicile London or Linden BE?
If you were born British you likely hold UK Domicile, however thats irrelevant in CH or the rest of Europe as their understanding is where you live.
Some Swiss people have never visited the village they come from....... Other countries would believe that you were born there.
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  #36  
Old 01.07.2017, 14:08
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

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Of course they can use any medical facilities in the UK or emergency cover anywhere in Europe. The price of the insurance is based on the country of residence, likely far cheaper than Swiss rates.
Marton shared a link a couple of years ago, I wish I could find it.


If you were born British you likely hold UK Domicile, however thats irrelevant in CH or the rest of Europe as their understanding is where you live.
Some Swiss people have never visited the village they come from....... Other countries would believe that you were born there.
But given my background - which I only discovered today - sorry please back to topic:
Attachment 126796

Last edited by ZuriRollt; 09.12.2017 at 14:23.
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  #37  
Old 01.07.2017, 14:34
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

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So if those living abroad are indeed paying for Swiss health insurance and thus contributing to the Swiss economy, someone needs to explain that to the FDP's Petra Gössi:

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/editoria...broad/43291506...
Veering slightly OT but this bit from the article made me LOL:
Quote:
...We created a balance between the sexes, because we realised that we were only making ourselves weaker by not being on an equal footing. This resulted in women getting the vote – albeit rather late – and making inroads into the Swiss cabinet and, eventually, everywhere else.
So getting the vote means it's all nicely balanced? What about the fact that women have a hard time getting hired because they might make babies and (gasp!) take maternity leave? What about the school schedules that virtually guarantee one parent has to be home all the time (historically the Hausfrau), unless a family can afford the massive child care costs?? Balanced, my eye.

Bringing it back to pensions, I don't see how either forced continuation of health insurance or reduced payments is legal. Surely one is entitled to the money one put in, regardless of where one chooses to live in retirement. How else is it fair and "equal"?
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  #38  
Old 01.07.2017, 14:46
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

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It is all one big pot.
The money stays in the system and the country does not leak.
When you get social help for example - all the money you receive goes directly back into the system. Round and round.
When you are out of the country, then this is a loss to Switzerland.
Making pensioners pay health costs that they will never use, just keeps the money here.
This is my simplistic take on economics
So all the health insurance companies pay the premiums into the same big pot and it helps to pay for pensions. Really?

It would make more sense if they made every pensioner who leaves Switzerland to go and live in another country and has a Swiss pension pay for Swiss health insurance but they don't. It is only a few nationalities who have to continue paying and they're not the ones who are costing the most in pensions.

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You can use it, that is the point. The NHS has a long wait for many procedures, being privately insured you can go privately & pay the excess of your choice. As premiums are not based on age it's a good deal. My mother is paying £8000 a year private health insurance aged 88 in the UK.
So are you saying that having Swiss health insurance is considered to be private insurance if you're living in the U.K.?
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  #39  
Old 01.07.2017, 15:06
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

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So are you saying that having Swiss health insurance is considered to be private insurance if you're living in the U.K.?
Of course you would be considered privately insured, just like in Switzerland for Swiss residents. However your also covered for a private GP which UK health insurance never covers assuming your costs exceed your chosen franchise + 10% unto 700 CHF.
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  #40  
Old 01.07.2017, 15:11
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

Looking for some backup here - but from speaking to my Swiss friends I was under the impression that the Krankenkasse firms were kind of subsidized by the Kantons and State for the basic insurance.
They make their money on the extras.
The obligatory part is not a big risk.
Will be willing to say I am wrong - but can you name any Krankenkasse firm that went out of business?
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