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  #41  
Old 01.07.2017, 15:24
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

Really fascinated by this thread.

Personally, as the NHS is paid for by tax payers in the UK over a lifetime- it seems fair that returnees from abroad, who have not paid into the system or for a limited period only- should have to contribute on their return?

I am Swiss, and a returnee with a UK pension paid over a lifetime, as well as social contributions, etc- and as I have not contributed to the AVS system in my native country, am not entitled to a Swiss pension. It hurts - but fair I believe. And no-one has suggested my UK pension should be adjusted up to take care of higher costs in CH, for sure - but our health care is taken care off by reciprocal agreement with UK - so far !?! (300 CHF franchise + 10% up to 700 CHF per annum).
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  #42  
Old 01.07.2017, 15:41
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

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Here's one, in English, about moving to an EU or EFTA state: https://www.ahv-iv.ch/p/880.e
Pages 12 and 13 appear to be relevant to this thread.

Can someone have a look and see what they think? I've been looking at so many links and info on the subject, my brain has gone woolly and I can't get my head around what it means.
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  #43  
Old 01.07.2017, 15:48
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

Quote:
Really fascinated by this thread.

Personally, as the NHS is paid for by tax payers in the UK over a lifetime- it seems fair that returnees from abroad, who have not paid into the system or for a limited period only- should have to contribute on their return?

.
I am also very interested in this thread.

What criteria would they use to decide who has to contribute and who doesn't when returning to the UK? How many years contributions would one need to be entitled to free NHS care.
What about all the people who move to the UK from other EU countries? Should they have to contribute for a certain number of years before being entitled to free health care?


How does paying Swiss health insurance help the NHS? At the moment a UK citizen, resident in the U.K. is entitled to free NHS treatment. If FMF is correct then the Swiss insurance would be a sort of private top up insurance so wouldn't really save the NHS anything.
I'm not really sure how it would work as a private insurance though. Is there a special type of Swiss health insurance for retirees living overseas because normally the Swiss basic insurance would only cover emergency treatment outside of Switzerland?

If we were to move back to the UK now hubby would have to continue paying Swiss health insurance but I wouldn't according to the links provided. I don't really see the logic in that. Plus hubby has paid much much more into the UK system than I have.

It all seems awfully complicated and illogical to me and everything could change of course post Brexit.
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  #44  
Old 01.07.2017, 15:50
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

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I am also very interested in this thread.

What criteria would they use to decide who has to contribute and who doesn't when returning to the UK? How many years contributions would one need to be entitled to free NHS care.
What about all the people who move to the UK from other EU countries? Should they have to contribute for a certain number of years before being entitled to free health care?


How does paying Swiss health insurance help the NHS? At the moment a UK citizen, resident in the U.K. is entitled to free NHS treatment. If FMF is correct then the Swiss insurance would be a sort of private top up insurance so wouldn't really save the NHS anything.
I'm not really sure how it would work as a private insurance though. Is there a special type of Swiss health insurance for retirees living overseas because normally the Swiss basic insurance would only cover emergency treatment outside of Switzerland.

If we were to move back to the UK now hubby would have to continue paying Swiss health insurance but I wouldn't according to the links provided. I don't really see the logic in that. Plus hubby has paid much much more into the UK system than I have.

It all seems awfully complicated and illogical to me.
This may be of interest. http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens...r/index_en.htm

Being that only 1/3 of UK tax payers are net contributors the cost per head is about £7k for anyone who is actually paying, however it's available to ALL residents regardless of ever working or not.
Swiss health insurance for retired Swiss specifically covers them for treatment in their home county. It's not standard Swiss health insurance for Swiss residents.
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  #45  
Old 01.07.2017, 16:19
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

Helsana gives me a premium of 210.20, 300 excess living in Malta. (226 with accident cover)

as a UK residents I would pay 393.50 with accident.

My BUPA international costs £230 a month with £2500 excess, thats aged 55...... will be substantially more by retirement age.

France is cheaper than the UK, Germany cheaper than France
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  #46  
Old 01.07.2017, 16:26
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

@fatmanfilms
I must have a blind spot! Couldn't manage to find that on Helsana website... could you please post a link? Thanks.
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  #47  
Old 01.07.2017, 16:53
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

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@fatmanfilms
I must have a blind spot! Couldn't manage to find that on Helsana website... could you please post a link? Thanks.
https://portal.helsana.ch/offer/#/?locale=en

Country of residence then any CH postcode, the quote is the same.
Treatment abroad is 200% of the costs of Switzerland so this will cover most places except USA/Canada for a holiday.

Any age up to 70 gives the same premium.

I believe the cost for all companies is identical, Marton provided a list a couple of years ago & the figure mentioned is roughly what I am seeing.

Benefits link https://portal.helsana.ch/offer/#/pr...ction#services
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  #48  
Old 01.07.2017, 17:31
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

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Pages 12 and 13 appear to be relevant to this thread.

Can someone have a look and see what they think? I've been looking at so many links and info on the subject, my brain has gone woolly and I can't get my head around what it means.
Nope, not any clearer at all to me at least not by looking at the chart. There is this though on page 12:

"It depends on the personal circumstances of the old-age pensioner concerned.

As a general rule, individuals who receive a pension from only one country, but do not live there, are subject to the health insurance system of the country which pays the pension.

As a general rule, individuals who receive a pension from several countries and live in one of them are subject to the health insurance system of their country of residence. If they live in a country which does not pay them a pension, they are generally obliged to take out compulsory health insurance cover in the country in which they have been insured for the longest period."

Still, looking at the chart because hubby has worked here he has to pay Swiss health insurance even if he moves back to the UK while I, as a family member who hasn't worked here, wouldn't have to.

As far as the insurance being a top up to the NHS, I'm not sure about that due to this paragraph on page 13 of that link:

"Individuals who have compulsory insurance cover in Switzerland but live in an EU or EFTA member state must register with the health insurance institution in their country of residence to cover administrative formalities. They cannot choose any special forms of insurance (choice of excess, insurance with bonus, HMO), since they are entitled to the health insurance benefits stipulated in the legislation of their country of residence."

I think the registering means if you do need medical help then when you present your Swiss EHIC card the NHS know that they have to bill the Swiss for the costs same as they would if you have emergency treatment in the UK.

Darn it people, can't you make it simple. We're old age pensioners and slowly losing our minds. Just tell us that if we live here we get that insurance and if we live there we get that one without all this cross border crap.
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  #49  
Old 01.07.2017, 17:39
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

Yes, I found that too. The information on page 12 seems to contradict the info in the chart.
My husband and I are in the same position as you and your hubby.
If he does have to continue paying Swiss health insurance, that's basically his old age pension gone.
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Old 01.07.2017, 17:51
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

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As a general rule, individuals who receive a pension from several countries and live in one of them are subject to the health insurance system of their country of residence. If they live in a country which does not pay them a pension, they are generally obliged to take out compulsory health insurance cover in the country in which they have been insured for the longest period."
That´s the one I was looking for! Thank you!
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  #51  
Old 01.07.2017, 18:23
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

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What criteria would they use to decide who has to contribute and who doesn't when returning to the UK? How many years contributions would one need to be entitled to free NHS care.
outside of Switzerland?
Indeed very confusing !?! Perhaps they should have a clear table with contributions depending on years of contribution- which would make more sense- and for dependants too.

Many returnees who are retired would be near or above 70- and most would have pre-existing conditions too. So if they have not paid much tax or National Insurance contributions - and have probably benefited from much higher salaries than they would in the UK for a long time- a contribution would seem fair- perhaps? But yes, confusing indeed.
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Old 01.07.2017, 18:49
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

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Indeed very confusing !?! Perhaps they should have a clear table with contributions depending on years of contribution- which would make more sense- and for dependants too.

Many returnees who are retired would be near or above 70- and most would have pre-existing conditions too. So if they have not paid much tax or National Insurance contributions - and have probably benefited from much higher salaries than they would in the UK for a long time- a contribution would seem fair- perhaps? But yes, confusing indeed.
If that is the case we should be ok, my hubby worked from age 17 to 50 in the UK before he came to Switzerland, and I worked until I was 47 for the NHS.
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  #53  
Old 01.07.2017, 18:55
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

maybe Swiss insurance payments for residents in the UK could be paid to NHS UK.

In the meantime, no-one has a clue what will happen due to Brexit's total mess anyhow. I certainly would not consider going back at the moment, for sure

Certainly wished as a Swiss born and bred, of Swiss parents, grand-parents, etc - I would be entitled to Swiss AVS pension- but I certainly don't. Which is fair enough as I have not contributed (bar a few months when 19)...
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  #54  
Old 01.07.2017, 19:02
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

If I went back to the UK next year with my wife (we are married 18 yearsl and she has a swiss passport) rented an apartment and registered with the council - what would be the NHS status for my wife?
I know that I am ok. I was in hospital 2 years ago for 2 weeks and also at the doctors - no bills except prescription charges.
I have both nationalities - my wife only Swiss.
Would she be like a third class citizen? I am sure the NHS would help her.
Been looking at some examples of the uk entrance exams. I think my wife has no chance.
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Old 01.07.2017, 19:11
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

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If I went back to the UK next year with my wife (we are married 18 yearsl and she has a swiss passport) rented an apartment and registered with the council - what would be the NHS status for my wife?
I know that I am ok. I was in hospital 2 years ago for 2 weeks and also at the doctors - no bills except prescription charges.
I have both nationalities - my wife only Swiss.
Would she be like a third class citizen? I am sure the NHS would help her.
Been looking at some examples of the uk entrance exams. I think my wife has no chance.
She's your wife and you have a UK passport - she will be OK, I imagine. Why would she have to sit an entrance exam? Move before the Brexit farce plays out.

And for all the kicking it gets, that's the beauty - or not - of the NHS. You turn up needing care/treatment and they will treat you regardless of your bank balance.

The UK is still a pretty amazing country to live in I reckon - hard to recognise that from the CH bubble though I suppose.
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Old 01.07.2017, 19:37
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

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Looking for some backup here - but from speaking to my Swiss friends I was under the impression that the Krankenkasse firms were kind of subsidized by the Kantons and State for the basic insurance.
They make their money on the extras.
The obligatory part is not a big risk.
Will be willing to say I am wrong - but can you name any Krankenkasse firm that went out of business?
I'm not sure the basic insurance is subsidized by the government. At least not to the insurance companies. But the insurance companies pool these premiums together so that the risk is spread between all of the companies the same.

And yes, the profits are made with the extras.
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  #57  
Old 01.07.2017, 19:39
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

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She's your wife and you have a UK passport - she will be OK, I imagine. Why would she have to sit an entrance exam? Move before the Brexit farce plays out.

And for all the kicking it gets, that's the beauty - or not - of the NHS. You turn up needing care/treatment and they will treat you regardless of your bank balance.

The UK is still a pretty amazing country to live in I reckon - hard to recognise that from the CH bubble though I suppose.
Don't count on that.

https://www.ft.com/content/b1c556d6-...977f9?mhq5j=e1

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...e-after-brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...alth-insurance

https://www.freemovement.org.uk/comp...-who-needs-it/

These are all to do with applicatons for permanent residence in the UK, but even so it seems few people knew or know about the requirement to have Comprehensive Sickness Insurance and now it's beginning to cause problems.

As far as treatment on the NHS goes, no it's no longer so easy just to turn up and get treated.

https://www.google.ch/?gws_rd=ssl#q=...=1498926713639

About time too. Far too much "tourist treatment" being done with no recompense for the NHS. Mind you, they're not geared up to deal with things like the EHIC card so it's no wonder they don't manage to get paid!

jbrady, did you present your Swiss EHIC card? Because you should have. NHS is for UK residents and you're no longer one as far as the NHS is concerned. If you move back obviously that may change if we can sort out this thread topic properly.
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  #58  
Old 01.07.2017, 19:45
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

But if JBrady and his wife move back, they will not be tourists, will they.

And the links you posted look a little like scaremongering to me - although I confess I only opened one of them (well, two, but the FT one is behind a paywall).
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Old 01.07.2017, 19:48
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

Thanks Medea

You are right - must move half back home this year. Too long out of the system.
Time flies. Cannot even vote now.
It was only by luck that my mothers doctor still knew me that I got looked after last time.
Back home in 2 weeks and will put some roots down again.
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Old 01.07.2017, 19:52
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Re: Pension from Switzerland and continued Health Ins payments after leaving the coun

Quote:
Really fascinated by this thread.

Personally, as the NHS is paid for by tax payers in the UK over a lifetime- it seems fair that returnees from abroad, who have not paid into the system or for a limited period only- should have to contribute on their return?

I am Swiss, and a returnee with a UK pension paid over a lifetime, as well as social contributions, etc- and as I have not contributed to the AVS system in my native country, am not entitled to a Swiss pension. It hurts - but fair I believe. And no-one has suggested my UK pension should be adjusted up to take care of higher costs in CH, for sure - but our health care is taken care off by reciprocal agreement with UK - so far !?! (300 CHF franchise + 10% up to 700 CHF per annum).
Quote:
maybe Swiss insurance payments for residents in the UK could be paid to NHS UK.

In the meantime, no-one has a clue what will happen due to Brexit's total mess anyhow. I certainly would not consider going back at the moment, for sure

Certainly wished as a Swiss born and bred, of Swiss parents, grand-parents, etc - I would be entitled to Swiss AVS pension- but I certainly don't. Which is fair enough as I have not contributed (bar a few months when 19)...
You're could have made contributions to AVS voluntarily. My ex husband paid in every year he lived abroad.
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