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  #21  
Old 21.10.2017, 00:21
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Re: Incident during our absence

Jacek, is he South African, Swiss, or a dual national, or other?
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  #22  
Old 21.10.2017, 00:21
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Re: Incident during our absence

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At the age of 20 with this attitude it's time to part. He can apply with RAV or social security if he's not able to support himself. It will be a refreshing lesson for him.
he will surely not be able to access RAV if he has not been working. In Neuchâtel at least- social help to get your own flat, etc, is not available to under 25s.
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Old 21.10.2017, 00:24
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Re: Incident during our absence

Yes, Odile, the RAV pays unemployment benefits only to those who have been working. However, it also provides a separate service to help people find work, or at least guidance of what could improve their chances. To get such help, one does not have to be eligible for the unemployment benefits.

Similarly, the social services are responsible for providing advice and guidance, and not only money. This means that even someone who might not be entitled do financial support can apply for contact to a social worker, for free. See "Immaterielle Hilfe" here:
https://www.ag.ch/de/dgs/gesellschaf...ozialhilfe.jsp

The question will be, once the first waves of drama and anger have ebbed away, whether there is any contrition, and whether the young man decides for himself (and for the sake of his parents) that he wants to take determined steps to get his life together. I hope so.
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Old 21.10.2017, 00:26
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Re: Incident during our absence

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Perhaps I am just weird, but your first post in this thread really shocked me. Earlier, on another thread, you had been so supportive to a new member who seemed to have made a bit of a mess of his life, with enormous debts. Here, almost the whole post is about the car and the damage the lad and his 'friends' have done.

I can really understand bitter disappointment and also rage at being let down like this by a chap who, at the age of twenty, should know better.
However, I would have expected a thread in the Family Matters section, asking if anyone had had this sort of experience and what they had done to help a close member of the family to pull himself together and make something of his life.

Why did he go off the rails? Did he want to impress his buddies? He has no job and no money. How else can he show off?
He may not behave like a responsible adult, but he is not being treated like one either. Your wife opened his letter? He was told three times not to have a party?
No comment.

He may desperately need support to get over this bad patch in his life. I hope, for his sake and for yours, that this is forthcoming.

P.S. A car key 'hidden in a drawer' is asking for trouble.
Well, I didn’t feel like agreeing with your post to full extent Longbyt but you actually make some good points here.

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I disagree, the two debt-situations are not comparable at all.

Help getting over what bad patch in his life? Having mucked up the trust of his family, his stance in the neighbourhood and his start in a new country within one night?
The constant pampering and solving problems for adult "children" produces those who still rant about how unfair life is at the age of 40.

A good kick in the butt, a few addresses (Sozialamt, Schuldenberatungsstelle etc.) can work wonders.
Exactly this. Teach a spoilt brat some discipline so that he learns respecting private property and public order. Corporal punishment is not my kind of cake but I hope that police intervention will knock a living light out of his youthful crap fantasies and get him back to real life (the one outside of shooting aliens and car crashing computer games).
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Old 21.10.2017, 00:27
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Re: Incident during our absence

Ok, this will come out harsh - but an adult who steals from your wallet, trashes the apartment in your absence, with booze and drugs, damages a couple of cars of other people aside of trashing yours, maybe deserves having you borrowing his cash from his wallet and getting him a ticket to RSA, where it is less boring. Either he is a part of a family and contributes to a good reputation of people who help him and the country that gave him a new, probably better home, or he goes. Why do you have to deal with his behavior, why do your neighbors and your community have to deal with it, why do his cousins have to deal with it, too? Sounds like he is taking you, guys, for granted..

Good luck, jacek, I have a feeling that it has not been easy, this good supervision, as you put it. xo
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Last edited by MusicChick; 21.10.2017 at 01:24.
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  #26  
Old 21.10.2017, 00:27
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Re: Incident during our absence

This probably won't make you feel any better, but I'd like to regale you with a story.

I crashed my parent's car when I was 19. Ahh, to be young and stupid . I was driving ridiculously fast at night and lost control in a bend. I could've easily killed myself on that spot. To this day I can vividly see the last fraction of a second before I went flying into a ditch: trees flashing by at an alarming speed a mere meter or so in front of the car as I slid sideways still considerably above 100 kmh.

In any case, I'd like to think that I turned out alright in the end, and having retained a bit of that childish carelessness and special kind of stupidity in face of danger has helped me a great deal in life. Perhaps I'll eventually go through the pearly gates backwards and ablaze, but word on the street is that this should earn me some drinks on the house at the heavenly bar .

So chin up, your youngster has all the qualities he needs to be successful in life, perhaps it just take a bit of nudging and some spirited slaps from life.
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  #27  
Old 21.10.2017, 00:29
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Re: Incident during our absence

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he will surely not be able to access RAV if he has not been working. In Neuchâtel at least- social help to get your own flat, etc, is not available to under 25s.
People who finished an education or an apprenticeship and don't find a job can register with RAV (at least the first type never worked) and yes, under 25s can get social security here (they get less money for rent, are told to find flat share solutions. This is canton Zurich. I'm surprised RAV should have different rules as ALV-deductions are Swiss-wide the same and most social departements work according to SKOS.

Let the "boy" find out how it is in Solothurn (or where jacek lives).
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Old 21.10.2017, 00:32
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Re: Incident during our absence

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Luckily my mom didn't have a tennis racket

I did something very similar at 15. My parents were sleeping and I stole the keys. Fortunately only the car's transmission was damaged!

I'd say you should appreciate the circumstance that your son didn't kill anybody on the street. So don't worry too much about a banged BMW that isn't worth much anyway!

Why don't you have a friendly conversation about why he did. No matter the reason and without consequences, to try to understand if it was just a lapse of judgement, drunk/drugged or whatever. If you know the root of the problem, you can try to solve it. Maybe something more serious lies beneath this joy ride.

I'd be more worried if by this time your son hasn't found his path in life whether be education or work. If he is occupied with either he will be more responsible.

I see no fault on your part, at that age he is no kid any more and he should be developed enough to be trusted with simple things. If he is determined to steal the keys he will find a way.
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  #29  
Old 21.10.2017, 00:33
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Re: Incident during our absence

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And you thought Catalonia was gonna be wild!

At the age of 20 with this attitude it's time to part. He can apply with RAV or social security if he's not able to support himself. It will be a refreshing lesson for him.
And you neither have to apologize to the neighbours nor pay the bills either, no matter what the police says. Well, apologizing to the neighbours might be a good idea anyway.

Sorry you're in this situation. (Is it really your "wife's son" or just the usual "look what YOUR son did"? )
Not paying the bills, while possibly legally right will make the family being enemy of the whole area. You want to be living in an area where everyone hates you? Pay for the damage of your spoilt kid, then make sure he will regret it. Thats my advise.

Oh, and unless he worked 12 months within last 24 months, RAV wont give him any money. And the Sozialamt will tell him to stay with his parents. Till he is 25 he is is parents problem (there are cases where this isnt true but this doesnt appear to be the case here.. the law was changed a few years back on this topic)

Basically, he urgently needs to either do an apprentiship, or find work/study. Being in the early 20s without apprentiship or university studies is a sure way to stay unemployed all life long. And I seriously doubt that the benefits that people being supported by the Sozialamt will stay as good as they are currently on the next 30, 40 years. You dont want your kid to be stuck into that.
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  #30  
Old 21.10.2017, 00:33
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Re: Incident during our absence

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he will surely not be able to access RAV if he has not been working. In Neuchâtel at least- social help to get your own flat, etc, is not available to under 25s.
It certainly is in other cantons (Ticino, for example).

Tom
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Old 21.10.2017, 00:35
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Re: Incident during our absence

I had a young brother... he wanted to impress his friends... He was very good with cars and didn't need a key to start them...

Much later, he ran a successful specialist car firm with his uncle. Very well respected, both of them. It could have turned out differently.

It was a good thing the family had been there when he needed them to help him sort out his life.
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  #32  
Old 21.10.2017, 00:41
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Re: Incident during our absence

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I had a young brother... he wanted to impress his friends... He was very good with cars and didn't need a key to start them...

Much later, he ran a successful specialist car firm with his uncle. Very well respected, both of them. It could have turned out differently.

It was a good thing the family had been there when he needed them to help him sort out his life.
I don’t expect him to start a big company or any of this. God bless if he is privileged enough to do so.

All I want is that he doesn’t drift away from right path and find job first, study if that’s his destiny and etc. Time to jump out of the nest !!!
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Old 21.10.2017, 00:41
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Re: Incident during our absence

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Till he is 25 he is is parents problem.
Only if still in school, and not his abnormal debts in any case.

Tom
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Old 21.10.2017, 00:42
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Re: Incident during our absence

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It certainly is in other cantons (Ticino, for example).

Tom
No social benefits GENERALLY under 25 years is Swiss-wide law, but Kantons can be more or less strict in enforcement. Its just a suggestion, more or less (expect it to be more enforced in the future, and possibly increased in age)

Again, early 20s are highly crucial. If you get past 25 without having had apprentiship or studies, your chances of becoming successfull (read: hold a steady job) in life will shrink dramatically. Sure some people turn it around even (much) later. But that is NOT the norm.
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Old 21.10.2017, 00:51
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Re: Incident during our absence

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No social benefits GENERALLY under 25 years is Swiss-wide law.
RAV are NOT social benefits.

Tom
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  #36  
Old 21.10.2017, 00:53
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Re: Incident during our absence

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I had a young brother... he wanted to impress his friends... He was very good with cars and didn't need a key to start them...

Much later, he ran a successful specialist car firm with his uncle. Very well respected, both of them. It could have turned out differently.

It was a good thing the family had been there when he needed them to help him sort out his life.
Not putting him up when he's not a trust-worthy person to live with (stealing money, car, trashing flat), not paying his debts (as he's 20 and has the kind of debts he really needs to stand up for himself) does not mean they can't be there for him.
They can advise him on how to sort himself out, keep track on how he does it, listen to what obstacles he meets and advise him on how to get past those as well.

As to the other poster: Parents are financially responsible until graduation of the first education. Used to be "or until 25", now that can be longer.
Paying the sons debt because the neighbours might hate you: The neighbours do not even expect that here, when the culprit is 20 (he's an adult since he's 18 and that is known by everyone here). The hit cars will be covered by insurance, btw. Insurance will probably recourse but the neighbours won't notice that.
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Old 21.10.2017, 01:05
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Re: Incident during our absence

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Not paying the bills, while possibly legally right will make the family being enemy of the whole area. You want to be living in an area where everyone hates you? Pay for the damage of your spoilt kid, then make sure he will regret it. Thats my advise.
If at 20's you still think parents should pay the bills, at what age do you think this is no longer needed?
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Old 21.10.2017, 01:07
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Re: Incident during our absence

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Well, I didn’t notice if he was really sorry because I was beyond myself raged in anger. I guess, I rather felt a tiny bit sorry for him when I saw my wife hitting him repetedaly with tennis racket. She was even more crossed and dissspointed with her son.

I agree about him having his own place to man up. We want to experiment with cousins first who let him stay until he will have found a job to see if there is no other underlying serious problem.

He just has an attitude of he knows it all better deep in his heart but rather quiet in front of us. Not in front of his friends though, when he is acting like a leader.

I think he needs a job and face reality of being an adult.
What did your cousins do wrong to deserve this

If he does the same crap will the cousins expect you to pay up?
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Old 21.10.2017, 01:27
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Re: Incident during our absence

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We came back from relaxing holidays in Spain just to face the horror.

During our absence 20’s old (my wife’s son) decided to throw a party with friends, despite being told three times not to do so. Drinks, drugs, Red Bull were present ... God knows what else this youth were thinking to take.

Coming back home saw the car utterly destroyed. Rear bumper completely crashed and needs replacement, trunk indented also needs complete replacement, two doors indented on the left side and undersides damaged and also both need replacement. House full of empty bottles and cigarette stench everywhere. Some furnitures damaged.

Drunk and stoned irresponsible youngster without driver’s license bumped three nearby cars on parking lot trying to reverse and was reported by neighbours to the police shortly after trying to escape. Cut long story short, he appeared at the police station and were asked to apologize to the neighbours plus pay all the damages. He doesn’t have a job and needs to find one. He must report regularly back at the police station and update on his progress with social rehabilitation.

I was totally pissed off and we sent him away to cousins in hope he grows up and faces reality of life. Rude awakening so to speak.

Coming back to the car story. Rather old 2006 E90 BMW 325i with 143,000km on odometer but in excellent condition after service new brake pads and spark plugs installed. No full casco and only house hold insurance for accidents. I hoped to drive the car for few more years but now I need to change it. They quoted me 7...10kCHF in Switzerland and 5kCHF in Germany for repairs. Wondering if it’s worth it at all. No go is my conclusion!

Totally emotionally drained thinking to myself how family member could have done something idiotic and immature like that. Lost trust and lack of respect besides material damage. You try to teach them something useful in life and that’s how you get rewarded. Stupidity has no boundaries.

You may be mad as hell right now ,but years from now it will make some good stories at the dinner table .
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Old 21.10.2017, 09:46
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Re: Incident during our absence

I think, once you've calmed down enough, talking with him about why he did it is good advice. Because another thing that occurs to me is at 20 he's approaching the age when he will no longer be entitled to a dependent's permit. So his choices are going to be having a job here which will get him his own permit, studying at a uni here or having to go back to South Africa. Is this clear to him? Because if he only has South African nationality and doesn't have a job before he reaches 21 he's going to struggle to find an employer to go through the non-EU hiring process.

Where does he want to live long term? Is this a backlash against being moved from South Africa where he may be happier? There is much talking that needs to be done, possibly with a counsellor too, to make clear this isn't just a short term thing, but could have long term consequences.
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