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  #41  
Old 21.10.2017, 10:04
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Re: Incident during our absence

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... Just a hint for parents in similar situation, put all the valuable objects in your house and lock them away from youngsters when away. Better be safe than sorry....
Depends on the kids. My kids at 20 simply wouldn't have done what your step-son did. Not that I'm "blaming the parents", not at all - just saying that there's a lot of variation. Not all teenagers are irresponsible and untrustworthy. So I'd modify your advice a little - if you have any doubt that your youngsters will behave, take precautions. Having to tell him 3 times not to have a party should possibly have rung alarm bells.

FWIW - I think your response has been entirely correct.

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What did your cousins do wrong to deserve this

If he does the same crap will the cousins expect you to pay up?
I don't think they'll have a problem. Here's a family photo
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  #42  
Old 21.10.2017, 10:47
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Re: Incident during our absence

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Much later, he ran a successful specialist car firm with his uncle. Very well respected, both of them.
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I don’t expect him to start a big company or any of this.
My brother didn't have a 'big company'. He had a very small firm in a niche area. What I meant was that he found something he was passionate about and worked hard at it.

I think there is a great deal of background here which we know nothing of, but which probably affects your step-son's behaviour. (but does not excuse it!)

He came to Switzerland at the age of 17 or 18? Not speaking the language? Leaving friends, climate and the culture he knows behind him?
Has he worked since then? What HAS he been doing? What are his talents? What does he like doing? Was there no chance of him doing an intensive German course? (You said that he could not understand German well and that is why his letters had to be opened).

He stole money from you. Why? What did you do when you found out? He disappears sometimes at weekends? What does he do then? Your wife hit him. Is this the sort of punishment he is used to?

I'm not blaming anyone for anything here. But to solve problems you sometimes need to know how they arose.
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We want to experiment with cousins first who let him stay until he will have found a job to see if there is no other underlying serious problem.

I think he needs a job and face reality of being an adult.
Exactly. But I think he will need some help getting there.
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  #43  
Old 21.10.2017, 11:23
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Re: Incident during our absence

Right now I’m (or we’re) just gonna be quiet and wait how he handles the whole situation i.e. follow police’s instructions, job hunt and getting along with cousins.

At the moment we need piece of mind and peace at home the most. Just a peaceful weekend without sensations is not too much to ask for, I hope?
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  #44  
Old 21.10.2017, 11:29
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Re: Incident during our absence

This I can well understand. In spite of my critical remarks, I really do feel for you. I just see a bit of both sides, that's all.
Have a peaceful time if you can and enjoy the sun while it is still shining.
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  #45  
Old 21.10.2017, 11:56
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Re: Incident during our absence

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This I can well understand. In spite of my critical remarks, I really do feel for you. I just see a bit of both sides, that's all.
Have a peaceful time if you can and enjoy the sun while it is still shining.
No worries, it just feels sometimes helpless and hopeless. We just need to get the thoughts together and think about the next logical steps in our situation.
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  #46  
Old 21.10.2017, 11:57
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Re: Incident during our absence

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So chin up, your youngster has all the qualities he needs to be successful in life, perhaps it just take a bit of nudging and some spirited slaps from life.
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You may be mad as hell right now ,but years from now it will make some good stories at the dinner table .
I'd probably have been a terrible parent, because I solidly agree with the above.

My brother long since swore me to secrecy about the parties we had when we were in our teens and early 20's. He believed it would undermine his authority with his kids, and now that he has 8 grandkids, those stories still can't be told. With the exception of his youngest son (who got a 4yr driving ban at 17 for stealing and crashing his work's van), those kids are so straight laced compared to how we were at that age.

With love, patience and perseverance, it will all work out, but right now, I feel sorry for your wife.
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  #47  
Old 21.10.2017, 12:15
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Re: Incident during our absence

I can understand why you sent your son away for the time-being. However, I think it's quite clear that he has to come back to 'face the music' and do what the police require. He may or may not have the understanding or tools to be able to 'make good' what he has done.

I would encourage giving a set time to let things settle down a little, but not too long - getting someone in (professional) who understands what skills your family may need to get through this and 'make good' what has been done, might be helpful. In times gone by this would be a trusted family member or friend who has good life experience or skills...a community leader...the head of the 'tribe'...

It may be that it all got out of hand...but what worries me (and I was discussing this with my 15 year old son this morning) is that everything was still in a mess when you returned - did he try to make amends, cover the mess, or did he just leave it all in a mess.

There may be an element of 'cry for help' in this situation - is he trying to prove the love of the parent by leaving it all a mess and testing you to see if you still love him ? Is he simply unable to clean up the mess himself.

Personally, our neighbours when I was a teen had a party that went crazy when the parents were away. In that case, the party was planned (but parents were naive in thinking it would not get out of hand)...beer bottles, glass broken over the fence into our yard, trashed the garden out the front of the house, and a complete mess inside...

Rather than clean up the mess. The parents went crazy at the kids for about 2 hours, then walked out and let them clean up as best they could. They also had to clean up the glass on our side of the fence and down the street...

Did you expect him/make him clean up the mess ?
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  #48  
Old 21.10.2017, 12:19
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Re: Incident during our absence

Anyway, there’s no need to cry over spilled milk.

It’s always good to hear the other people’s opinions and thank you for all the warm words of support from the EF members. Much appreciated.
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  #49  
Old 21.10.2017, 12:29
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Re: Incident during our absence

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I can understand why you sent your son away for the time-being. However, I think it's quite clear that he has to come back to 'face the music' and do what the police require. He may or may not have the understanding or tools to be able to 'make good' what he has done.

I would encourage giving a set time to let things settle down a little, but not too long - getting someone in (professional) who understands what skills your family may need to get through this and 'make good' what has been done, might be helpful. In times gone by this would be a trusted family member or friend who has good life experience or skills...a community leader...the head of the 'tribe'...

It may be that it all got out of hand...but what worries me (and I was discussing this with my 15 year old son this morning) is that everything was still in a mess when you returned - did he try to make amends, cover the mess, or did he just leave it all in a mess.

There may be an element of 'cry for help' in this situation - is he trying to prove the love of the parent by leaving it all a mess and testing you to see if you still love him ? Is he simply unable to clean up the mess himself.

Personally, our neighbours when I was a teen had a party that went crazy when the parents were away. In that case, the party was planned (but parents were naive in thinking it would not get out of hand)...beer bottles, glass broken over the fence into our yard, trashed the garden out the front of the house, and a complete mess inside...

Rather than clean up the mess. The parents went crazy at the kids for about 2 hours, then walked out and let them clean up as best they could. They also had to clean up the glass on our side of the fence and down the street ...

Did you expect him/make him clean up the mess ?
I guess he did try to clean up under circumstances. Tons of bottles were already in the recycling bins. Windows open to let the stench of smokes out. Plenty of cigarettes butts littering the front yard with few bottles laying all over. Hangovered and confused next day after night of drunken driving collisions and confrontations with the police, he didn’t realize that we were arriving so early in the morning. We made him cleanup all the mess swiftly with kick in the butt.
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  #50  
Old 21.10.2017, 13:36
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Re: Incident during our absence

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RAV are NOT social benefits.

Tom
Read correctly. It was ALL about Social benefits below 25, not RAV in the comments you decided to groan into.. Ticino might still give them out more easily, but by law, till 25 a kid is their parents problem and wont be supported by the state if want to move out (in practice they cant stop them from doing so but his/her benefits will be massively cut)

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If at 20's you still think parents should pay the bills, at what age do you think this is no longer needed?
As long as he doesnt hold a job?

Usually Swiss kids in that age are close to finishing apprentiship and most will move out after that and holding a regular job. Those that study will need to be supported by their parents for a few more years past their 20th birthday. Usually you wont be working a regular job when you study till you are 24 or so..

(with someone having done an apprentiship having already 8 years of work experience)

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  #51  
Old 21.10.2017, 13:54
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Re: Incident during our absence

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Read correctly. It was ALL about Social benefits below 25, not RAV in the comments you decided to groan into..
I was specifically referring to Odile's RAV comment.

Doing an apprenticeship is sufficient to receive ALK payments (RAV is not the correct term, it's the ALK who pays, NOT the RAV).

Tom
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Old 21.10.2017, 14:07
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Re: Incident during our absence

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As long as he doesnt hold a job?

Usually Swiss kids in that age are close to finishing apprentiship and most will move out after that and holding a regular job. Those that study will need to be supported by their parents for a few more years past their 20th birthday. Usually you wont be working a regular job when you study till you are 24 or so..

(with someone having done an apprentiship having already 8 years of work experience)
Sorry, but that's just idiotic. Like it or not people at such age are either mentally handicapped or adults who do know that their actions have consequences if they don't act to such knowledge it's their problem.

Paying for damage your kid's do up to the age of 24 or so... the dude already get's of the hook very lightly, I'm sure that if I would slam a car into other cars while drunk and stoned the police would not just ask me to say sorry...
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Old 21.10.2017, 14:25
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Re: Incident during our absence

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Anyway, there’s no need to cry over spilled milk.

It’s always good to hear the other people’s opinions and thank you for all the warm words of support from the EF members. Much appreciated.
Hugs.

I know your minds must have been racing enough past few years. There is a difference between being a lost immature soul searching kid and a pretty intense and careless destruction that you described. That difference has legal consequences, too.

Being a step dad isn't easy, especially if he seems to want to show off what a "leader" he is.

Have a peaceful weekend!
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  #54  
Old 21.10.2017, 14:33
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Re: Incident during our absence

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Sorry, but that's just idiotic. Like it or not people at such age are either mentally handicapped or adults who do know that their actions have consequences if they don't act to such knowledge it's their problem.

Paying for damage your kid's do up to the age of 24 or so... the dude already get's of the hook very lightly, I'm sure that if I would slam a car into other cars while drunk and stoned the police would not just ask me to say sorry...
Shouldn't the kid* be in jail? Or some other serious form of punishment?

Driving under the influence, obviously unable to control the vehicle, and causing property damage, with no license? And all he has to do is say 'sorry'?

Geez, I remember one poster's story on here where he got stopped at a random alcohol checkpoint, passed the test, and then the cops asked him if they could do a drug test. He had taken a few puffs from a joint a week earlier, and so failed the test. He posted on here that it took him over a year of court, meetings with court-mandated psychologists, etc. to clear it all up - at a cost of approx CHF 30,000.

You'd better explain to your kid that he's gotten off extremely easy -and that any chances of getting a free pass in the future are likely slim to none.

On the bright side, at least the house didn't burn down


*A 20 year old adult
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  #55  
Old 21.10.2017, 15:00
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Re: Incident during our absence

I share a story in the hope it makes you feel better insofar as it could have been worse. I went to a party from one of my friends. He smoked a lot of pot and invited some of his druggie friends who invited....

Long story short, the party invites spread far and wide and became known even to the police.

I left the party relatively early on when the 'guests' started systematically taking out every piece of furniture in the house (via the now broken windows) to play the fun game of smashing them to pieces on the front lawn.

The whole lot was apparently set on fire to make a bonfire later on. Apparently, by midnight it was shutdown by police due to noise complaints. The interior was trashed and my friend was kicked out of the house (16 at the time) permanently.
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Old 21.10.2017, 15:02
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Re: Incident during our absence

Also to add. My personal opinion is that in such situations, it should be perfectly legal to beat the shit out of your kids in these situations. No need to break bones, but yeah, it should take a few weeks for the swelling and bruising to disappear.
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Old 21.10.2017, 15:26
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Re: Incident during our absence

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I was specifically referring to Odile's RAV comment.

Doing an apprenticeship is sufficient to receive ALK payments (RAV is not the correct term, it's the ALK who pays, NOT the RAV).

Tom
I have a young neighbour in this position- and yes, I'd say it is social benefits if he has not contributed to the system. He has done an apprenticeship but not worked since. Depends on circumstances- young neighbour is nt really looking for work and refuses to take the driving licence necessary for him to get a job. So until he is 25- he will receive nothing and stays at home and drives his parents crazy.
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Old 21.10.2017, 19:36
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Re: Incident during our absence

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Shouldn't the kid* be in jail? Or some other serious form of punishment?

Driving under the influence, obviously unable to control the vehicle, and causing property damage, with no license? And all he has to do is say 'sorry'?
I have a feeling there will be some other bills and consequences coming in the mail. This is probably just the tip of the iceberg. Also if he didn't have a license already, no chance he's getting one any time soon.

At least in CH the media doesn't share the full name of the culprit. In the U.S. his name and photo would be on all the local stations, and any potential employer would find that story in a heartbeat, even years down the line.

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Also to add. My personal opinion is that in such situations, it should be perfectly legal to beat the shit out of your kids in these situations. No need to break bones, but yeah, it should take a few weeks for the swelling and bruising to disappear.
Sorry, I wholeheartedly disagree with the idea of promoting violence, even in this situation.
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Old 21.10.2017, 19:51
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Re: Incident during our absence

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Also to add. My personal opinion is that in such situations, it should be perfectly legal to beat the shit out of your kids in these situations. No need to break bones, but yeah, it should take a few weeks for the swelling and bruising to disappear.
not sure if that is a good idea considering the guy is 20 years old.
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Old 21.10.2017, 21:10
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Re: Incident during our absence

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Also to add. My personal opinion is that in such situations, it should be perfectly legal to beat the shit out of your kids in these situations. No need to break bones, but yeah, it should take a few weeks for the swelling and bruising to disappear.
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not sure if that is a good idea considering the guy is 20 years old.
Nor would it be a good idea if he were 2. Or 12.

I think it is appropriate to be angry, and to state that. And to require that the young man takes responsibility for his actions. However, I agree with 3Wishes. I don't believe that perpetrating violence is likely to be a helpful strategy to move the young man to the next phase of responsible adulthood.
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