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  #21  
Old 12.07.2018, 13:17
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Re: Health insurance question

Interesting to see everyone groan at me, but it appears the Gemeinsame Einrichtung is correct. She is in their eyes 'employed' by a Swiss employer, as they pay her. Due to this, as an UK passport holder she is classed as a Cross border commuter - if you like it or not, that is the biletaral Agreement. At the Website www.kvg.org - German Version - click on versicherer - koordinationsrecht - leitfaden (sorry, all in German). Open the PDF, and there you'll find all the info in regards employment in Switzerland and the duty to be insured in Switzerland due to her income. I wish you all a good read
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  #22  
Old 12.07.2018, 13:28
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Re: Health insurance question

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Interesting to see everyone groan at me, but it appears the Gemeinsame Einrichtung is correct. She is in their eyes 'employed' by a Swiss employer, as they pay her. Due to this, as an UK passport holder she is classed as a Cross border commuter - if you like it or not, that is the biletaral Agreement. At the Website www.kvg.org - German Version - click on versicherer - koordinationsrecht - leitfaden (sorry, all in German). Open the PDF, and there you'll find all the info in regards employment in Switzerland and the duty to be insured in Switzerland due to her income. I wish you all a good read
I read nowhere that she has to have an insurance here. Also she is not employed in Switzerland.

Give this a read:

Quote:
If you live or work in Switzerland, you have to take out health insurance, no matter what your nationality is. Even if you work in Switzerland for under three months, basic health insurance is compulsory. It is also compulsory if you are from an EU or EFTA state and work in Switzerland but are not resident here. However, cross-border commuters – people who live in a neighbouring country and come to Switzerland to work – can choose whether to take out health insurance in Switzerland or in their own country.
https://www.ch.ch/en/health-insurance-foreigners/

And that is why you get groaned at.

Now to ask you a question, why do you groan everybody who is giving the correct info?
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  #23  
Old 12.07.2018, 13:41
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Re: Health insurance question

Page 24 - 3.4 explains the employment and where to be insured. As she has a Swiss employer (payment from Switzerland), she falls under the bilateral Agreement - meaning requested Swiss health insurance. As I mentioned, she can request exemption but only in the first three months. Do note, she works in France, not in Switzerland, but for a Swiss employer (at least he pays her)
Das Koordinationsrecht beruht auf dem Grundsatz des Erwerbsortprinzips. Staatsangehörige eines EU-/EFTA-Staats unterliegen den Rechtsvorschriften desjenigen Staats, in dessen Gebiet sie ihre Erwerbstätigkeit ausüben und zwar auch dann, wenn sie in einem anderen Staat wohnen (Art. 11 Abs. 3 lit. a VO 883/2004).
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Old 12.07.2018, 13:46
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Re: Health insurance question

I agree with other that you will have to act, you can't just do nothing. From the link poted, this is the relevant Information:


Insurance at place of work for cross-border commuters from EU/EFTA countries

Following the harmonisation of social-security systems introduced in 2002 by the Agreement on the Free Movement of Persons (AFMP) and the EFTA Agreement, the obligation to take out health insurance is based on the place of employment. Anyone working in Switzerland is required to take out compulsory Swiss health insurance, as are all members of their family not in gainful employment.
This rule notably applies to cross-border commuters who are nationals of an EU or EFTA state


See especially the text in bold. So the question is, where does she work. Since she is paid by a Swiss employer she seems to be considered by the Gemeinsame Einrichtung to be employed in Switzerland.


If you want me to, I can call them for you and ask in German what can be done. If you wish me to do that please send me a PM so I can provide you with further Information.
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Old 12.07.2018, 13:56
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Re: Health insurance question

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Page 24 - 3.4 explains the employment and where to be insured. As she has a Swiss employer (payment from Switzerland), she falls under the bilateral Agreement - meaning requested Swiss health insurance. As I mentioned, she can request exemption but only in the first three months. Do note, she works in France, not in Switzerland, but for a Swiss employer (at least he pays her)
Das Koordinationsrecht beruht auf dem Grundsatz des Erwerbsortprinzips. Staatsangehörige eines EU-/EFTA-Staats unterliegen den Rechtsvorschriften desjenigen Staats, in dessen Gebiet sie ihre Erwerbstätigkeit ausüben und zwar auch dann, wenn sie in einem anderen Staat wohnen (Art. 11 Abs. 3 lit. a VO 883/2004).
You must have quoted the wrong part, the part you quoted disagrees with you.
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Old 12.07.2018, 14:10
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Re: Health insurance question

Hi thank you to everyone for your comments there are a few now that contradictory so I will have to read through them all again.
The problem is now some are saying it dosn't matter who pays her and some are saying if she is paid by the swiss she has to pay it.

Which is it anyone know this 100% ??

I like to thank you for volunteering to ring them for me . Her university is writing to them to confirm she is a Uk student and has insurance through them. I don't know if this will make a difference.
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  #27  
Old 12.07.2018, 14:11
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Re: Health insurance question

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She never was obliged to send anything to the healthcare so she cannot have failed on that.

This is about an English woman, living and working in France. Somebody in Switzerland is just incredible messing up things, and now father and daughter try to solve this, but run into the Swiss bureaucracy and cannot even get somebody on the phone who speaks their language which is why he made an account here to ask for help.

Besides that, the posting is wrong in more ways, it does for example not matter where the money comes from.
The problem with that is that the Gemeinsame Einrichtung appears to assume that workplace and employer's location are the same thus they assume that OP's daughter has to take Swiss insurance, or that she counts as Swiss employed because the daugher receives payments where social security payments have been deducted from. Whether that's correct or not is moot until that difference has been made clear.

Long story short: She needs to contact the Gemeinsame Einruchtung.
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  #28  
Old 12.07.2018, 14:15
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Re: Health insurance question

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I agree with other that you will have to act, you can't just do nothing. From the link poted, this is the relevant Information:


Insurance at place of work for cross-border commuters from EU/EFTA countries
Irrelevant, as SHE IS NOT A CROSS BORDER WORKER!

Unless she has a Swiss G permit that OP failed to mention?

Tom
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  #29  
Old 12.07.2018, 14:23
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Re: Health insurance question

I have read lots if documents that say if she a resident she has to pay. BUT SHES NOT
if she a cross border worker she has to pay. BUT SHE NOT

but I can't find anywhere say if she is paid by a swiss company she has to pay. Has anyone got anything official that confirms this.

And if it ends that she has to pay. How much would it be and how is worked out.
She gets 1300 swiss francs per month. 800 goes on accomdation straight away then rest goes on travel and food. She would have been there 6 months at the end August 18. She is so stressed.
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Old 12.07.2018, 14:29
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Re: Health insurance question

Regulation (EC) No 883/2004 is about the place of work, and not from where the payment comes.

Unless she works on a ship under Swiss flag there is at least one other provision in Regulation (EC) No 883/2004 under which she is subject to Swiss health insurance:

Article 12
Quote:
1. A person who pursues an activity as an employed person in a Member State on behalf of an employer which normally carries out its activities there and who is posted by that employer to another Member State to perform work on that employer's behalf shall continue to be subject to the legislation of the first Member State, provided that the anticipated duration of such work does not exceed 24 months and that he/she is not sent to replace another person.
Regulation (EC) No 883/2004 can be found here:https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...32004R0883R(01)
its associated Regulation (EC) No 987/2009 here: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...lex:32009R0987
(Just for those who like to have a look into the English or Finnish version )
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Old 12.07.2018, 14:31
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Re: Health insurance question

She doesn't have a swiss g permit.
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Old 12.07.2018, 14:34
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Re: Health insurance question

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She doesn't have a swiss g permit.
Then she is not a cross-border worker.

Tom
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Old 12.07.2018, 14:37
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Re: Health insurance question

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She doesn't have a swiss g permit.
Check with HR if she is a "posted worker". If they confirm than Article 12 applies and she has to pay Swiss health insurance. If they say she is not a posted worker she is not subject to Swiss health insurance. In this case get a written statement from HR that she is not a posted worker AND that she also does not work on a ship or airplane under Swiss flag (The last part is mostly just for fun, but makes the statement water thigh and complete ).
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Old 12.07.2018, 14:41
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Re: Health insurance question

Thanks Tom. What actually is a G permit.
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Old 12.07.2018, 14:43
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Re: Health insurance question

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What actually is a G permit.
It's for people who work in Switzerland, but live over the border, i.e. frontaliers (cross-border workers).

Tom
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Old 12.07.2018, 14:44
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Re: Health insurance question

I will get her to ring her HR now to see if see if she is listed as a POSTED WORKER I'll let you know soon. Thanks
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Old 12.07.2018, 14:49
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Re: Health insurance question

It's so stressful. I just tried to get a quote for swiss insurance just to see what the costs are like. It would NOT let me do as she dosnt have a swiss address or a swiss work address.
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Old 12.07.2018, 14:54
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Re: Health insurance question

She is checking with her HR now to see if she is list as a POSTED WORKER. BUT may take some time
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  #39  
Old 12.07.2018, 14:57
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Re: Health insurance question

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It's so stressful. I just tried to get a quote for swiss insurance just to see what the costs are like. It would NOT let me do as she dosnt have a swiss address or a swiss work address.
Relax. It seems quite clear that it's just a mistake because she told the hospital about her Swiss employer. Shouldn't take too long to get sorted as had already been stated above.
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Old 12.07.2018, 16:26
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Re: Health insurance question

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It's so stressful. I just tried to get a quote for swiss insurance just to see what the costs are like. It would NOT let me do as she dosnt have a swiss address or a swiss work address.
That's because the rates that you pay are related to your Canton/Commune of residence or work. But her lack of either of these addresses is a clue that this doesn't apply to you.

Like Ace1 said, don't panic; this hot mess is a mistake which doesn't apply to your daughter.
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