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  #61  
Old 16.08.2018, 16:38
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

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They will need evidence of bank accounts, savings, assets and house ownership, for you and OH and FIL.

My brother lost his inheritance to Social Services, after he returned from his world adventures. Bonne chance- this must be so stressful for all.
Such a shame you didn't come to EF before your OH signed the paper- as many have done in the past- so that consequences could be clearly explained- again as EF has done often.
That's an interesting way of phrasing for repayments of governmental (tax-payer's) money.
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  #62  
Old 16.08.2018, 17:08
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

Let me share with you all the last statement written in the form "inadequate cost coverage" so that you can also get a clear idea:


German Version
Die Patientin/der Patient bestätigt ausdrücklich, dass die gemachten Angaben vollständig und wahrheitsgetreu sind. Sie/er verpflichtet sich, alle ihr/ihm möglichen Unterlagen zu Dokumenta-tion ihrer/seiner Vermögensverhältnisse beizubringen und sich kooperativ zu zeigen.

Die Patientin/der Patient nimmt zu Kenntnis, dass das Hospital Name verpflichtet ist, weitere Nachforschungen über die finanziellen Verhältnisse der Patientin/des Patienten einzuholen und zum, Zwecke der Kostensicherung gegenüber Behörde bekanntzugeben. Aufgrund dessen ent-bindet die Patientin/der Patient die Ärzteschaft sowie sämtliche Hilfspersonen des Hospital Name vom ärztlichen Berufsgeheimnis und bevollmächtigt diese ausdrücklich, alle dieser Hinsicht erforderlichen Auskünfte sowohl bei Behörden als auch bei Privaten einzuholen und die persönlichen Daten der Patientin/des Patienten soweit erforderlich preiszugeben.


English Version
The patient expressly confirms that the information provided is complete and truthful. He/she agrees to provide all possible paperwork for the purpose of documenting his/her financial circumstances, and to cooperate fully.

The patient acknowledges that the Hospital is obliged to carry out further enquiries into the patient's financial circumstances and to share any information it obtains with the authorities for the purpose of recovering costs. In view of this, the patient releases the medical team and any auxiliary persons from the Hospital of the obligation to maintain medical confidentiality and also expressly empowers them to obtain all of the information required in this regard both from the authorities and from private individuals, and to share the patient's personal data where required.


The hospital gave us this form when MIL was still hospitalized...but when I read this last statement, I refused to sign and submit this form to the hospital and they were fine with it.
At that time I still thought that MIL will make it and I could never imagine the costs will be so high. Now the situation is different and that is why I'm looking back at this form. I also wonder: how further can an hospital or the authorities enquire about my bank accounts? What about the bank secrecy? Does anyone know about that?
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  #63  
Old 16.08.2018, 17:24
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

They don´t really need that initially, they can issue a Betreibung / poursuite if you do not pay. And you did at least agree to guarantee up to a certain amount when you applied for the visa.

Best to try and get an agreement with the hospital.
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  #64  
Old 16.08.2018, 17:40
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

The bill is the bill, someone has to pay it, there are no get out of jail free cards especially not for foreigners - and why should there be?? the swiss don't want to be paying the medical bills for the rest of the world.

Sign nothing, agree to nothing until you Get legal advise ASAP, no one on here can help you.
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  #65  
Old 16.08.2018, 17:43
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

Sorry for your loss. I would suggest take legal advice about your rights and extent of liability before agreeing anything with the Hospital.
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  #66  
Old 16.08.2018, 17:57
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

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Let me share with you all the last statement written in the form "inadequate cost coverage" so that you can also get a clear idea:


German Version
Die Patientin/der Patient bestätigt ausdrücklich, dass die gemachten Angaben vollständig und wahrheitsgetreu sind. Sie/er verpflichtet sich, alle ihr/ihm möglichen Unterlagen zu Dokumenta-tion ihrer/seiner Vermögensverhältnisse beizubringen und sich kooperativ zu zeigen.

Die Patientin/der Patient nimmt zu Kenntnis, dass das Hospital Name verpflichtet ist, weitere Nachforschungen über die finanziellen Verhältnisse der Patientin/des Patienten einzuholen und zum, Zwecke der Kostensicherung gegenüber Behörde bekanntzugeben. Aufgrund dessen ent-bindet die Patientin/der Patient die Ärzteschaft sowie sämtliche Hilfspersonen des Hospital Name vom ärztlichen Berufsgeheimnis und bevollmächtigt diese ausdrücklich, alle dieser Hinsicht erforderlichen Auskünfte sowohl bei Behörden als auch bei Privaten einzuholen und die persönlichen Daten der Patientin/des Patienten soweit erforderlich preiszugeben.


English Version
The patient expressly confirms that the information provided is complete and truthful. He/she agrees to provide all possible paperwork for the purpose of documenting his/her financial circumstances, and to cooperate fully.

The patient acknowledges that the Hospital is obliged to carry out further enquiries into the patient's financial circumstances and to share any information it obtains with the authorities for the purpose of recovering costs. In view of this, the patient releases the medical team and any auxiliary persons from the Hospital of the obligation to maintain medical confidentiality and also expressly empowers them to obtain all of the information required in this regard both from the authorities and from private individuals, and to share the patient's personal data where required.


The hospital gave us this form when MIL was still hospitalized...but when I read this last statement, I refused to sign and submit this form to the hospital and they were fine with it.
At that time I still thought that MIL will make it and I could never imagine the costs will be so high. Now the situation is different and that is why I'm looking back at this form. I also wonder: how further can an hospital or the authorities enquire about my bank accounts? What about the bank secrecy? Does anyone know about that?
That form seems to be for giving them allowance the easy way to retrieve money or at least on retrieving info about what money could be there for them to get.

That is separate from the paper you singed for being financially responsible which holds no limit in your case. So if they would offer a paper which states roughly "pay us 30K and all is settled" I'd sign as quick as possible to avoid further financial disaster.

You already signed that you are willing to pay for everything, not wanting to do so would force the hospital to create a betriebung towards you resulting in either you paying or you having to give full disclosure of your financial situation which in theory might end up with your belongings/income being seized.

Therefor to give you a better understanding of what you are all up to and what the different options are I and others advice you to seek legal assistance in this since we do not know the whole story or everything involved, nor do we know what belongings the parents have/had. Al we know is that you signed a paper to pay the bill if needed.
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  #67  
Old 16.08.2018, 19:02
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

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My brother lost his inheritance to Social Services, after he returned from his world adventures.
You mean he spent his inheritance early with a loan from social services which required repaying.
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  #68  
Old 16.08.2018, 19:07
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

Well yes- that's it. Came back with nothing, depended on social services- and when he got his inheritance, it all went to part pay his debts towards the State.

Bank secrecy only applies if you pay. If you claim you can't pay, they will want proof. You can refuse, and pay.
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  #69  
Old 16.08.2018, 19:08
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

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Bank secrecy only applies if you pay. If you claim you can't pay, they will want proof. You can refuse, and pay.
They may want proof, but that does not mean they are entitled to any info. Unless a criminal case is opened bank secrecy is firmly in place in CH. Social services can insist on proof as people want cash ASAP so they comply, very different when a Hospital as already provided a service.
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Old 16.08.2018, 19:20
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

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Thats no longer totally accurate, the rules changed in 2017

https://www.myhealth.london.nhs.uk/i...rseas-visitors
Did you read your own link?

'Treatment in A&E departments, at GP surgeries and under the Mental Health Act remains free for all.'

Any secondary care would be chargeable.

Last edited by porsch1909; 16.08.2018 at 19:34.
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  #71  
Old 16.08.2018, 19:39
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

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Did you read your own link?

'Treatment in A&E departments, at GP surgeries and under the Mental Health Act remains free for all.'
Yes, you need to read it too.

However once you move from A&E you have to pay, my A&E treatment in France was €546 discounted from €1560, that night in Hospital was €1143 fully payable & subsequent 9 nights cost €19228.63 fully payable. Whilst A&E is free or subsidised in the EU it does not cover further treatment in any way.
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  #72  
Old 16.08.2018, 20:18
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

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They may want proof, but that does not mean they are entitled to any info. Unless a criminal case is opened bank secrecy is firmly in place in CH. Social services can insist on proof as people want cash ASAP so they comply, very different when a Hospital as already provided a service.
Exactly. They have no right to info- unless you ask for support. Then they can say 'no proof, no info, no support'. Fair enough i say. Same if you apply for Life Insurance in the UK, for instance. They will ask to access your medical records- you can refuse, but then they can refuse to cover you. Same for Private Insurance. Insurance reports are the bane of all GPs- as they take so much time in some cases.
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Old 16.08.2018, 21:09
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

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Exactly. They have no right to info- unless you ask for support. Then they can say 'no proof, no info, no support'. Fair enough i say. Same if you apply for Life Insurance in the UK, for instance. They will ask to access your medical records- you can refuse, but then they can refuse to cover you. Same for Private Insurance. Insurance reports are the bane of all GPs- as they take so much time in some cases.
Insurers do pay NHS GP's for reports in the UK, I can't believe it's a bane as it's extra cash whilst receiving a salary from the government.
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Old 16.08.2018, 21:14
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

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Yes, you need to read it too.

However once you move from A&E you have to pay, my A&E treatment in France was €546 discounted from €1560, that night in Hospital was €1143 fully payable & subsequent 9 nights cost €19228.63 fully payable. Whilst A&E is free or subsidised in the EU it does not cover further treatment in any way.

Like I said emergency treatment isnt chargeable. As long as you're in the A+E ward you won't be charged regardless of residence status. Also you don't need to show travel insurance when applying for a visa from a non EU country. Something you also said wasn't true when it is.

I don't really care about your experience in France.
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  #75  
Old 16.08.2018, 21:39
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

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Let me share with you all the last statement written in the form "inadequate cost coverage" so that you can also get a clear idea:


German Version
Die Patientin/der Patient bestätigt ausdrücklich, dass die gemachten Angaben vollständig und wahrheitsgetreu sind. Sie/er verpflichtet sich, alle ihr/ihm möglichen Unterlagen zu Dokumenta-tion ihrer/seiner Vermögensverhältnisse beizubringen und sich kooperativ zu zeigen.

Die Patientin/der Patient nimmt zu Kenntnis, dass das Hospital Name verpflichtet ist, weitere Nachforschungen über die finanziellen Verhältnisse der Patientin/des Patienten einzuholen und zum, Zwecke der Kostensicherung gegenüber Behörde bekanntzugeben. Aufgrund dessen ent-bindet die Patientin/der Patient die Ärzteschaft sowie sämtliche Hilfspersonen des Hospital Name vom ärztlichen Berufsgeheimnis und bevollmächtigt diese ausdrücklich, alle dieser Hinsicht erforderlichen Auskünfte sowohl bei Behörden als auch bei Privaten einzuholen und die persönlichen Daten der Patientin/des Patienten soweit erforderlich preiszugeben.


English Version
The patient expressly confirms that the information provided is complete and truthful. He/she agrees to provide all possible paperwork for the purpose of documenting his/her financial circumstances, and to cooperate fully.

The patient acknowledges that the Hospital is obliged to carry out further enquiries into the patient's financial circumstances and to share any information it obtains with the authorities for the purpose of recovering costs. In view of this, the patient releases the medical team and any auxiliary persons from the Hospital of the obligation to maintain medical confidentiality and also expressly empowers them to obtain all of the information required in this regard both from the authorities and from private individuals, and to share the patient's personal data where required.


The hospital gave us this form when MIL was still hospitalized...but when I read this last statement, I refused to sign and submit this form to the hospital and they were fine with it.
At that time I still thought that MIL will make it and I could never imagine the costs will be so high. Now the situation is different and that is why I'm looking back at this form. I also wonder: how further can an hospital or the authorities enquire about my bank accounts? What about the bank secrecy? Does anyone know about that?
a) you are not the patient.
b) you as the daughter-in-law are not entitled to sign for your mother-in-law Your FIL might be entitled.
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Old 16.08.2018, 21:39
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

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Insurers do pay NHS GP's for reports in the UK, I can't believe it's a bane as it's extra cash whilst receiving a salary from the government.
Talking about the 'old days' not very long ago and at all- when GPs worked 1 night in 3 or 4, and 1 week-end, including nights a month or more + run a business and have other teaching rôles - so 90+ or more per week - when the fee was 27 quid - and could take hours as notes have got to be got through with a toothcombe + report written. An absolute pain in the proverbial, for sure.
We digress, last post on this subject. Back to OP.
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  #77  
Old 16.08.2018, 21:40
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

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b) you as the daughter-in-law are not entitled to sign for your mother-i- law Your FIL might be entitled.
Wasn´t that maybe because they signed the guarantee to pay in order to get the visa?
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  #78  
Old 16.08.2018, 21:55
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

The hospital did not ask me to sign the paper, but to my husband because he is the son. At that time the patient was conscious, but she did not understand German or English and that is why they did not ask the patient to sign.

Tomorrow I will not bring my husband with me, so that i have a reason more to not sign anything
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Old 16.08.2018, 22:10
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

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Wasn´t that maybe because they signed the guarantee to pay in order to get the visa?
Yes, but the son did, her OH, not her. So the hospital should not be dealing with her anyhow, but the person who signed, legally.
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Old 16.08.2018, 22:16
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

Ehm...I signed on the invitation letter (the one that was provided to the embassy). I did sign on that because I am the one earning.

Oh gosh...it looks like such a mess ahah
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