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Old 15.08.2018, 09:56
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Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

Hi All,


Recently I had some tourists visiting us and and a medical emergency took place. Maybe some of you had a similar experience and can give me some advice how to handle the situation, especially in relation with the costs


I will give a little bit of background: the medical emergency consisted in a 20 days of hospitalization, several days in ICU, some complications which ended up with the death of the patient . And, of course, this means quite a huge invoice


The foreign health insurance refused to cover the expenses because it was a pre-existing illness (even if it was not diagnosed). Anyway, even if they would have paid, the amount would not have been fully covered.


So, let's go to the point: the hospital gave me a form which is called something like "inadequate fund coverage" where the tourist states that he/she has only a certain amount of cash and that he/she asked to x, y, z and the amount collected is equal to Sfr. xxx.-


I was thinking to fill-in this form and pay one third only of the bill...which is still quite a high amount. Do you know what happens next? Can they check my bank accounts, my salary and force me to pay the remaining bill with installments? If it helps, I am the daughter-in-law of the (dead) patient.


If anyone of you had a similar experience (...even though I hope not) I'd be happy to hear your stories to understand how to better handle my situation.


Thanks
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Old 15.08.2018, 09:59
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

Surely the liability rests with the dead person's estate, if the estate is solvent the bill will be paid in full or not it won't.

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Hi All,


Recently I had some tourists visiting us and and a medical emergency took place. Maybe some of you had a similar experience and can give me some advice how to handle the situation, especially in relation with the costs


I will give a little bit of background: the medical emergency consisted in a 20 days of hospitalization, several days in ICU, some complications which ended up with the death of the patient . And, of course, this means quite a huge invoice


The foreign health insurance refused to cover the expenses because it was a pre-existing illness (even if it was not diagnosed). Anyway, even if they would have paid, the amount would not have been fully covered.


So, let's go to the point: the hospital gave me a form which is called something like "inadequate fund coverage" where the tourist states that he/she has only a certain amount of cash and that he/she asked to x, y, z and the amount collected is equal to Sfr. xxx.-


I was thinking to fill-in this form and pay one third only of the bill...which is still quite a high amount. Do you know what happens next? Can they check my bank accounts, my salary and force me to pay the remaining bill with installments? If it helps, I am the daughter-in-law of the (dead) patient.


If anyone of you had a similar experience (...even though I hope not) I'd be happy to hear your stories to understand how to better handle my situation.


Thanks
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Old 15.08.2018, 10:02
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

Sorry for the situation and your loss. Surely the form should be filled in by the estate of the deceased and not by who they were visiting?
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Old 15.08.2018, 10:03
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

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Hi All,


Recently I had some tourists visiting us and and a medical emergency took place. Maybe some of you had a similar experience and can give me some advice how to handle the situation, especially in relation with the costs


I will give a little bit of background: the medical emergency consisted in a 20 days of hospitalization, several days in ICU, some complications which ended up with the death of the patient . And, of course, this means quite a huge invoice


The foreign health insurance refused to cover the expenses because it was a pre-existing illness (even if it was not diagnosed). Anyway, even if they would have paid, the amount would not have been fully covered.


So, let's go to the point: the hospital gave me a form which is called something like "inadequate fund coverage" where the tourist states that he/she has only a certain amount of cash and that he/she asked to x, y, z and the amount collected is equal to Sfr. xxx.-


I was thinking to fill-in this form and pay one third only of the bill...which is still quite a high amount. Do you know what happens next? Can they check my bank accounts, my salary and force me to pay the remaining bill with installments? If it helps, I am the daughter-in-law of the (dead) patient.


If anyone of you had a similar experience (...even though I hope not) I'd be happy to hear your stories to understand how to better handle my situation.


Thanks
Did you somehow say that you were responsible for their welfare and costs?

Don't understand either why a form would be handed to you at all..
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Old 15.08.2018, 10:11
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

Thanks for your replies.

Perhaps I did not mention one important point: we are the one who invited them to Switzerland. As they come from a Non-EU country, we wrote the invitation letter. Additionally, I would not be the one signing this form, but they asked my husband to sign it (which is the son of the deceased).

The reason why I'm paying the 1/3 of the bill is just because of this sponsorship letter where we stated that we will cover their expenses and bla bla bla.
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Old 15.08.2018, 10:29
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

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Thanks for your replies.

Perhaps I did not mention one important point: we are the one who invited them to Switzerland. As they come from a Non-EU country, we wrote the invitation letter. Additionally, I would not be the one signing this form, but they asked my husband to sign it (which is the son of the deceased).

The reason why I'm paying the 1/3 of the bill is just because of this sponsorship letter where we stated that we will cover their expenses and bla bla bla.

StelladOriente, I'm sorry for your loss...

Like you, I have also invited people from Non-EU countries and signed sponsorship letters on their behalf. In the letters I signed, I mention that I will provide/support on their accomodation and food expenses. TBH, I have no idea what is my responsibility for expenses beyond this like in your situation.
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Old 15.08.2018, 10:33
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

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The reason why I'm paying the 1/3 of the bill is just because of this sponsorship letter where we stated that we will cover their expenses and bla bla bla.
I think your on the hook for 100% then, bankruptcy does not exist in the UK / US sense, they will keep coming back to see if you can pay for at least 20 years.
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Old 15.08.2018, 10:34
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

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StelladOriente, I'm sorry for your loss...

Like you, I have also invited people from Non-EU countries and signed sponsorship letters on their behalf. In the letters I signed, I mention that I will provide/support on their accomodation and food expenses. TBH, I have no idea what is my responsibility for expenses beyond this like in your situation.

According to what I found online, they normally expect the sponsor to cover expenses up to Sfr. 30'000.-
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Old 15.08.2018, 10:35
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

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According to what I found online, they normally expect the sponsor to cover expenses up to Sfr. 30'000.-
What is the final invoice 50k ?
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Old 15.08.2018, 10:40
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

A little bit more: Sfr. 80'000.-
And this is already a discounted price...they provided us certain services and did not charge us for that.
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Old 15.08.2018, 10:41
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

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StelladOriente, I'm sorry for your loss...

Like you, I have also invited people from Non-EU countries and signed sponsorship letters on their behalf. In the letters I signed, I mention that I will provide/support on their accomodation and food expenses. TBH, I have no idea what is my responsibility for expenses beyond this like in your situation.
It's quite clear:

"By signing the declaration of sponsorship, the guarantor – a natural or a legal solvent person residing in Switzerland– undertakes to cover the costs arising from sickness, accident, return transport and living costs, which would otherwise arise for public welfare or private medical services during the applicant’s stay in Switzerland."

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...ise/faq.html#4. For hosts in Switzerland

StelladOriente, sorry to hear about your loss. What an awful thing to happen when it was supposed to be such a fun time for them.
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Old 15.08.2018, 10:47
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

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According to what I found online, they normally expect the sponsor to cover expenses up to Sfr. 30'000.-

No, that is the amount you are required to show in order to bea bole to iussue the guarantee letter.


The commune who issues the visa invitation letter will decide whether you are good for this or not (do you own property, tax declaration, etc) if the decide no, then you need to put up a bank guarantee of Chf 30k but this does not limit your liability to Chf 30k


You are well and truely on the hook for the full amount
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Old 15.08.2018, 10:47
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

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According to what I found online, they normally expect the sponsor to cover expenses up to Sfr. 30'000.-
Can you not claim it back from the deceased's estate, assuming it is worth that amount?

Obviously this will be at least partly your husband's inheritance but the expenses have to come out of it first, right? Any remaining funds are then split among the beneficiaries.

ETA - sorry for your loss, what an awful thing to happen when loved ones are visiting.
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Old 15.08.2018, 10:48
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

When I first mentioned about the Sfr. 30'000.- (which is also the amount I'm going to pay btw) I think I took the information from here:


Declaration of sponsorship

If there are any doubts regarding the adequacy of financial resources available to the visa applicant, the Swiss diplomatic/consular mission may require that the visa applicant obtain a declaration of sponsorship. This is an official form that must be signed by the inviting party and confirmed by the communal authority or cantonal migration office of the place of residence of the inviting party. By signing this form, the inviting party undertakes to pay any uncovered costs in relation to the foreign guest’s visit up to CHF 30,000.


https://www.ch.ch/en/letter-invitati...n-sponsorship/
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Old 15.08.2018, 10:59
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

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You are well and truely on the hook for the full amount



I really hope not...or at least that's not the impression I got when I last talked to the hospital. When she was still alive, I clearly told them "hey, look I don't think I will be able to pay the full amount" and in response they told me that for tourists, they use this form and if the full amount is not paid, they apply for "Vorsorge", which I don't really know what it is and how it works, hence my question.
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Old 15.08.2018, 12:07
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

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I really hope not...or at least that's not the impression I got when I last talked to the hospital. When she was still alive, I clearly told them "hey, look I don't think I will be able to pay the full amount" and in response they told me that for tourists, they use this form and if the full amount is not paid, they apply for "Vorsorge", which I don't really know what it is and how it works, hence my question.

At the end of the day, if you don't pay it, then we all will via our heralth insurance as you can guarantee the hospital won't end up out of pocket over this, one way or another they will get their money.
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Old 15.08.2018, 12:25
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

This document "Medizinische Nothilfe /Finanzierungs-fragen bei Touristinnen und Touristen und Durchreisendenmight" might assist the OP in understanding who is to pay for the treatment of an uninsured/ underinsured tourist (German):


https://www.sz.ch/public/upload/asse...stand_2014.pdf
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Old 15.08.2018, 12:28
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

What kind of travel insirance did you purchase?

Since our children are no longer residents of Switzerland, we try to purchase traveler insurance for them. But, now I wonder if it is enough?.?

So sorry for your loss and troubles.
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Old 15.08.2018, 12:52
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

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According to what I found online, they normally expect the sponsor to cover expenses up to Sfr. 30'000.-
Unless a limitation has been agreed upon there is no limit, the official form is limited to 30K, but if you wrote a letter yourself without a limit and stated to take on full responsibility they might come for all.
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Old 15.08.2018, 13:05
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Re: Health insurance for tourists - inadequate coverage

First of all, when guaranteeing for a visiting tourist there used to be an obligation to purchase a travel-insurance. Has that changed? That would be unfortunate as we can see now it was a good rule.

It is clearly stated in the document Mullhollander linked:
<<Ableben der betroffenen Person
Im Falle des Ablebens der betroffenen Person geht die Forderung auf die Erben über, sofern diese die Erbschaft nicht ausschlagen. In solchen Fällen muss der Leistungserbringer nachweisen, dass die Forderung nicht aus dem Nachlass gedeckt bzw. von den Erben nicht bezahlt werden konnte. >>
If the person dies, the claim has to be covered by the heirs unless they reject the heritage. The interesting bit here is that it says in such cases the hospital (Leistungserbringer) has to prove that the costs can not be covered by the heritage and/or the heirs.
That seems very strange as it's almost impossible for the hospital to do that with people who have their wealth abroad? Plus who is going to pay for all the - unrelated - legal work they will have to do to even try?

Basically with social services, relatives in the up and down line (parents - children) can be made accountable in certain situations.

Additionally it could be they bring up the idea, the person actually came here for medical treatment, then it gets even more complicated.

OP, I'm more the pragmatic type and I don't know you. Still, I'm sorry for your loss and I'm very sorry you have to deal with all this in a time when your mind is elsewhere. It is very important you deal with it properly now though!
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