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Old 24.01.2019, 13:36
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Legal Insurance: does it cover purchasing/ consumer bills dispute?

hi everyone,

I visited the Clinic in Munich Germany for enquiries regarding fertility treatment (as my partner lives there) we met Doctor for idea of what available options.

Doctor could not express herself properly in English, she was so sobbing with my result, and feel the treatments would not be so successful. We accepted the fact of my situation. We decided not to proceed with IUI procedure.

Soon later I received the bill cost EUR 915 for just consultation fees, whichI find extremely unreasonable high. Never encounter any where in Switzerland where I have to pay up to 1000EUR for just consultation fee (last month I did the same in Zurich, Doctor charged me CHF 175 + 75 fr) only.

I raised my concern to Clinic in Munich they did not reply or offer any solution, and now they engaged an attorney to charge against me.

I wanted to get laywer help me in this case ( I have legal insurance with Fortuna, not sure it covers ) but still hestitating as my concern is: Would I fail the case because the fact that we consumed their service, even they charge like day light brobery but it's client faults for not asking prices upfront? However, i guess none of us would step into a clinic for consultation and asking Dr how much is it for their cons. cost.

Do I stand any chance in this case?
Thanks very much for your adice
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Old 24.01.2019, 13:40
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Re: Legal Insurance: does it cover purchasing/ consumer bills dispute?

Ask your insurance.

Tom
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Old 24.01.2019, 13:52
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Re: Legal Insurance: does it cover purchasing/ consumer bills dispute?

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hi everyone,

I visited the Clinic in Munich Germany for enquiries regarding fertility treatment (as my partner lives there) we met Doctor for idea of what available options.

Doctor could not express herself properly in English, she was so sobbing with my result, and feel the treatments would not be so successful. We accepted the fact of my situation. We decided not to proceed with IUI procedure.

Soon later I received the bill cost EUR 915 for just consultation fees, whichI find extremely unreasonable high. Never encounter any where in Switzerland where I have to pay up to 1000EUR for just consultation fee (last month I did the same in Zurich, Doctor charged me CHF 175 + 75 fr) only.

I raised my concern to Clinic in Munich they did not reply or offer any solution, and now they engaged an attorney to charge against me.

I wanted to get laywer help me in this case ( I have legal insurance with Fortuna, not sure it covers ) but still hestitating as my concern is: Would I fail the case because the fact that we consumed their service, even they charge like day light brobery but it's client faults for not asking prices upfront? However, i guess none of us would step into a clinic for consultation and asking Dr how much is it for their cons. cost.

Do I stand any chance in this case?
Thanks very much for your adice

So who's fault is it she didn't speak the language you want in her OWN country ?


As it is a clinic, i guess it is private, you should have asked beforehand rather than just assuming everybody speaks the same language as you do.


She did the work you required and now you have to pay.


The fact is disn't go the way you wanted is not her fault nor an excuse not to pay.
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Old 24.01.2019, 14:03
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Re: Legal Insurance: does it cover purchasing/ consumer bills dispute?

I think you will have to pay the bill even though it is very high.

If the Doctor was basing her advice on test results that you showed her in English, then I would also try another clinic and get better advice. Maybe she missed something or didn't understand the results fully.
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Old 24.01.2019, 14:18
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Re: Legal Insurance: does it cover purchasing/ consumer bills dispute?

Call your insurance. They generally also have lawyers on hand to give an initial assessment and can also tell you whether you have coverage.

Since you were at a German clinic, it will ultimately be a matter of German law.

At least in Switzerland if there is no prior agreement (which can also be oral or tacit) as to the price of service, this does not give the service provider free reign what he wants to charge. In such case the customer is only required to pay such fee that is "usual" or "customary". This can determined by looking at tariffs (if such are available) or what the "going rate" is on the market.
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Old 24.01.2019, 14:49
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Re: Legal Insurance: does it cover purchasing/ consumer bills dispute?

Why will Swiss insurance pay for this ?


She lives in Switzerland and had non-urgent treatment in Germany....not a hope in hell the Swiss insurance will pay.


What exactly were these "consultation fees" it is a very wide description and could take into account a lot of things we don't know about.


It sounds about right, 1'000.-- isn't really so much for an examination, diagnostic and a few tests

Last edited by Today only; 24.01.2019 at 20:53.
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Old 24.01.2019, 14:54
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Re: Legal Insurance: does it cover purchasing/ consumer bills dispute?

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Why will Swiss insurance pay for this ?
Legal insurance to dispute it, not pay it!

Tom
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Old 24.01.2019, 15:12
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Re: Legal Insurance: does it cover purchasing/ consumer bills dispute?

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Call your insurance. They generally also have lawyers on hand to give an initial assessment and can also tell you whether you have coverage.

Since you were at a German clinic, it will ultimately be a matter of German law.

At least in Switzerland if there is no prior agreement (which can also be oral or tacit) as to the price of service, this does not give the service provider free reign what he wants to charge. In such case the customer is only required to pay such fee that is "usual" or "customary". This can determined by looking at tariffs (if such are available) or what the "going rate" is on the market.



What he says and likely to be more the case in EU that agreement on the price should have been made.



BTW you can't express yourself properly in English either, so perhaps there was a misunderstanding.
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Old 24.01.2019, 15:37
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Re: Legal Insurance: does it cover purchasing/ consumer bills dispute?

So sorry to hear you went all the way to Munich to be disappointed. Must be hard.

However, others are right. If you want an English speaking specialist, or one who speaks your mother tongue, you must check in advance. And a visit to a specialist in another country is never covered by insurance- unless it is agreed with them beforehand, in very rare cases.

As we don't know how long the consultation was, and how many ad which tests were made, what sort of documentation he had to study first, etc, it is impossible to say if the fee was fair or not- but it seems quite correct, without knowing more.
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Old 24.01.2019, 15:55
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Re: Legal Insurance: does it cover purchasing/ consumer bills dispute?

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Legal insurance to dispute it, not pay it!

Tom
Is a non-domestic case like this covered by normal legal insurance?

(tho offc it is all in OP's terms and conditions of the insurance).

Better to first ask for a specified bill which should give an idea about the price being correct.
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Old 24.01.2019, 16:03
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Re: Legal Insurance: does it cover purchasing/ consumer bills dispute?

Has anyone read the title of the thread i.e.Legal Insurance: does it cover purchasing/ consumer bills dispute?

Have fun, lots of that going on EF currently...
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Old 24.01.2019, 17:17
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Re: Legal Insurance: does it cover purchasing/ consumer bills dispute?

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Doctor [..] was so sobbing with my result,
Obviously you had tests done. Nobody works for free.
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Old 24.01.2019, 17:58
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Re: Legal Insurance: does it cover purchasing/ consumer bills dispute?

Read the terms and conditions of your insurance. And if in doubt call your insurance about actual coverage. Nobody butt you and your insurance knows what is covered.

About the case it self. If you requested and ordered the service you will have to pay regardless of the outcome.
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Old 24.01.2019, 20:29
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Re: Legal Insurance: does it cover purchasing/ consumer bills dispute?

Thanks all for the replies. I will check with my Legal insurance company tomorrow.

Btw, I do NOT ask or even expect Swiss health insurance cover my medical costs overseas. This is not the question in this topic.

In fact, I went to Germany with hope of lesser cost than in Zurich. Just wanted to see Dr and ask about estimation cost of upcoming /future treatment before making my decision if do in Germany or Zurich, but unfortunately it costs me all together EUR 1200 (incld. Lab test/report) just for this, and now lawsuit.

This is how it happens:
I called their clinic for appointment, was advised to do blood test before seeing Dr. I gave blood sample at the reception. Few days later I visited Clinic again to see Dr. for consultation.
We were talking appx. 30mins about my blood test results. Dr. suggested to add vitamin D into daily meal as first step and asked if I decided to proceed with further treatment. I asked her the cost and procedures of treatment option A and B, she gave the price list of 2 treatments (€ 2000-2500) and asked me to call clinic again for next appointment if decide to proceed. I said I will think about it, said thank to her and left clinic. Afterwards I decided not to proceed because I could not fully understand her completely due to English issue.
Some of you misunderstood, I am not complained about she cannot communicate in English. It’s fine so far, if I am not comfortable with that, I simply choose another clinic (and I did, nothing to complain about), and of course I am liable to pay for the bill of her consultation.
However, when I received all together 3 bills (2 from Lab test Eur 100+ /each bill, which is certainly ok, I already paid these 2 in full), but the 3rd bill of € 915 just for 30mins discussion – It’s unreasonable high. Feeling like they anyhow charge. Hence I wrote a letter to clinic expressed my concern, asked them send me the tariff ie Dr. hourly rate for consultation, and offered to negotiate a discounted rate with reference of the costs I paid for the same service at a private clinic in Zurich. They just simply said this is how it charges here and refer the case to lawyer.
I am sure they have right to charge (where “consultation” fee is vague area to determine fixed price) and have right to sue. But just feeling like being abused by them. Really! If you are in my situation you would feel it. You will not just simply mention, you used service you have to pay! Of course, but not in such rip-off way!

Anyway, Thanks for advice, I just want to double check if there are similar case and hope to get rid the lawsuit asap.
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Old 24.01.2019, 20:38
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Re: Legal Insurance: does it cover purchasing/ consumer bills dispute?

Was it a private hospital/did you make the appointment as a private patient? Then the invoices are much much higher than going in there with basic insurance/Krankenkasse
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Old 24.01.2019, 20:39
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Re: Legal Insurance: does it cover purchasing/ consumer bills dispute?

The consultation costs are not just for the time that you spent with the doctor, but also for the time the doctor (and others) spent analysing your results prior to the consultation.

Tom
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Old 24.01.2019, 20:41
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Re: Legal Insurance: does it cover purchasing/ consumer bills dispute?

As this is German law you will most likely need a lawyer which knows the German law. Where else than in Germany could you find such a lawyer?

You can get relatively cheap advice here:
https://www.frag-einen-anwalt.de/

Here a bit of similar case:
https://www.frag-einen-anwalt.de/Arz...7--f50057.html
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Old 24.01.2019, 22:40
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Re: Legal Insurance: does it cover purchasing/ consumer bills dispute?

The obvious question is how much time did you spend with the consultant doctor and were there any tests or other procedures.

Clearly it would have been better to have gone to a British clinic which are heavily regulated, and you would have understood what was being said, and the doctor would have understood you.

IVF is very chancy. My daughter underwent procedures, lost the first baby, was told there was a 2% chance of success with a remaining embryo. Had surgery on the NHS, then implantation. Her child is now 5½ years old. She was very lucky.

At her various visits to the clinic she ran into a number of celebrities. England is where they go, I guess. Daughter's child is now Swiss & British.

The point: don't get depressed. I don't know how much my daughter paid over the few years she had treatment, but it must have been a lot: only her surgery after a miscarriage was covered by the NHS. I am suspicious that the clinic was so quick to threaten suit: it doesn't inspire confidence in their bona fides.
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Old 24.01.2019, 22:58
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Re: Legal Insurance: does it cover purchasing/ consumer bills dispute?

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I am suspicious that the clinic was so quick to threaten suit: it doesn't inspire confidence in their bona fides.
Quick? I don't think any timeline was given.
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Old 24.01.2019, 23:08
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Re: Legal Insurance: does it cover purchasing/ consumer bills dispute?

I would definitely demand an itemized bill to see how they came up with this number. Sounds to me like this isn't the first time they did this, if they're so quick to give the case to a lawyer without even offering you an explanation.

I can't imagine how a blood test interpretation + 30min consultation can come up to 900 euros, but who knows what kinds of costs they had, maybe it's valid.

Good luck with Fortuna - I sure hope you have "Fortuna Top" for coverage of many branches of law in Europe. Here is an overview of their coverage, in English:

https://www.generali.ch/en/privatkun...tzversicherung
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