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Old 01.10.2019, 23:40
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Detectives legally spy on Insured Persons [claimants], from 1st October 2019

From 1st October 2019, it is legal for a Swiss insurer to use the services of detectives to observe (concealed watching, follow, listen to, record, photograph, film) anyone whom they may suspect to be claiming insurance benefits fraudulently.

The observation may be carried out on 30 days within a 6 month period, which can be extended for a further 6 months.

The person may be observed in public spaces, as well as in any space which is observable from a public space.

Insurers are allowed to outsource the observation.

Insurers are allowed access to the observation material held by other insurers.

A detective who plans to use "technical instruments" for the surveillance must apply to the relevant Cantonal Insurance Court for permission, before so doing. The judge must issue the permit, or reject the application, within 5 days.

The insured person does not have any recourse to stop this. It is legal.

The insurer must inform the insured person that he/she has been observed, at the latest before the insurer issues the decree on the amount of benefits that will be paid out, or declined, based on i.a. the observations.

If the suspicion of fraud is not confirmed, the insurer must issue a decree setting out the reason for the observations, with which methods they were carried out, and for how long they lasted. The insured person then has the usual period (30 days) before which the decree becomes valid, to demand that the material be kept on record (from where the insured person will be able to gain access to it). Otherwise the observation material will be destroyed.

In German:
Bundesgesetz
über den Allgemeinen Teil
des Sozialversicherungsrechts
(ATSG)
(Gesetzliche Grundlage für die Überwachung von Versicherten)
Änderung vom 16. März 2018

In French:
Loi fédérale
sur la partie générale du droit des assurances sociales
(LPGA)
(Base légale pour la surveillance des assurés)
Modification du 16 mars 2018

In Italian:
Legge federale
sulla parte generale del diritto
delle assicurazioni sociali
(LPGA)
(Base legale per la sorveglianza degli assicurati)
Modifica del 16 marzo 2018

Last edited by doropfiz; 02.10.2019 at 00:10.
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Old 02.10.2019, 01:28
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Re: Detectives legally spy on Insured Persons, from 1st October 2019

Sounds about right to me. And there appears to be adequate provisions protecting the innocent.
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Old 02.10.2019, 08:19
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Re: Detectives legally spy on Insured Persons, from 1st October 2019

It seems that the old law had to be changed because it clashed with human rights legislation (or something) - it was redrafted so it now conforms. Clearer grounds, better safeguards.
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Old 02.10.2019, 09:35
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Re: Detectives legally spy on Insured Persons [claimants], from 1st October 2019

Seems like Thiam jumped the gun a bit then
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Old 02.10.2019, 09:54
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Re: Detectives legally spy on Insured Persons [claimants], from 1st October 2019

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Seems like Thiam jumped the gun a bit then
And how is that story in any way related to claiming insurance benefits fraudulently?
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Old 02.10.2019, 10:02
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Re: Detectives legally spy on Insured Persons [claimants], from 1st October 2019

I somehow have this picture i my mind now, of life insurances employing agents to sniff around cemetries to check people really are dead.

Well it is Halloween season coming up and all that.
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Old 02.10.2019, 10:31
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Re: Detectives legally spy on Insured Persons [claimants], from 1st October 2019

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And how is that story in any way related to claiming insurance benefits fraudulently?



Possibly not a direct association, granted, but detectives, illegal.....it's on most of the front pages of the worlds' press, albeit concerning Credit Shitz.


Try humour
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Old 02.10.2019, 10:32
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Re: Detectives legally spy on Insured Persons [claimants], from 1st October 2019

Is this just social security stuff or its like any insurance you have at all like health, legal etc ?
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Old 02.10.2019, 10:36
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Re: Detectives legally spy on Insured Persons [claimants], from 1st October 2019

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Is this just social security stuff or its like any insurance you have at all like health, legal etc ?
Any.
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Old 02.10.2019, 10:55
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Re: Detectives legally spy on Insured Persons [claimants], from 1st October 2019

Is there a big business in insurance fraud here?
Like the fake accidents in the UK, bogus whiplash, crash4cash etc.. I even read about one in the UK where a car had a minor collision with a bus, something like 30 people on the bus and 5 people in the car all lodged huge injury claims, whiplash etc.. They were all working together, planned..

If it stops things like this from becoming a thing here then great.
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Old 02.10.2019, 10:56
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Re: Detectives legally spy on Insured Persons [claimants], from 1st October 2019

Nothing to make a fuss about, IMO. It's fairly normal practice around the world for insurance companies to check the validity of claims, particularly long-term disability and the like, and it makes up a significant part of the private detectives' workload.

This law actually seems like it's offering better protection and more transparency for the individual than before, and indeed than is the case in many other places.
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Old 02.10.2019, 11:02
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Re: Detectives legally spy on Insured Persons [claimants], from 1st October 2019

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This law actually seems like it's offering better protection and more transparency for the individual than before....
In what way, please?
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Old 02.10.2019, 11:15
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Re: Detectives legally spy on Insured Persons [claimants], from 1st October 2019

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Is this just social security stuff or its like any insurance you have at all like health, legal etc ?
Only what's considered a social security insurance on the federal level ("Sozialversicherung"). Mandatory health, accident and disability insurance, perhaps others as well that I overlook. Private insurance companies are allowed to use private detectives now as well, but only for these kinds of insurances, not for other kinds of insurances such as legal, 3rd party liability, travel, etc.

"Ordinary" social security payments ("Sozialhilfe") are regulated on the Cantonal and communal level, including using private detectives where applicable.
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Old 02.10.2019, 11:17
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Re: Detectives legally spy on Insured Persons [claimants], from 1st October 2019

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In what way, please?
Didn't you even read the C&P text in your own post?
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Old 02.10.2019, 11:20
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Re: Detectives legally spy on Insured Persons [claimants], from 1st October 2019

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In what way, please?

It will hopefully avoid fraudulent claims, which are on the rise, thus stabilising or possibly reduing the premiums for everybody else
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Old 02.10.2019, 11:49
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Re: Detectives legally spy on Insured Persons [claimants], from 1st October 2019

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It will hopefully avoid fraudulent claims, which are on the rise, thus stabilising or possibly reduing the premiums for everybody else
Do you have any numbers? If memory serves, the volume of avoided payments (the vast majority thereof "merely" caused by abuse, as opposed to by fraud) by the use of detectives was around 0.1% or less.
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Old 02.10.2019, 12:19
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Re: Detectives legally spy on Insured Persons [claimants], from 1st October 2019

It might not result in the detectives discovering much fraud, but surely the threat of investigation and the publicity from this law should make anybody thinking of defrauding think twice.
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Old 02.10.2019, 12:22
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Re: Detectives legally spy on Insured Persons [claimants], from 1st October 2019

<<The person may be observed in public spaces, as well as in any space which is observable from a public space. >>
All these third party individuals on video now ......
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Old 02.10.2019, 12:52
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Re: Detectives legally spy on Insured Persons [claimants], from 1st October 2019

I've checked up now.

When the Swiss voted on this issue, the government recommend that it go through. The reason was that the old law had had to be stricken off because it conflicted with new Human Rights legislation. Before then, it was legal to spy on insured persons, without telling them, without destroying the evidence collected for innocent people, and without other safeguards and transparency.

The new law was drafted to conform. So what has really happened is the the old law which didn't have safeguards and transparency has been replaced with a better one.

Seems eminently sensible to me. When they asked me, I recommended to my daughters (who are Swiss), that they vote in favour.
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