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  #21  
Old 14.04.2020, 10:56
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Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1

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Well- I can see your point. It is based on reciprocal agreements - and it is the Law. A British retiree in the EU and Switzerland, who receives No Swiss pension and has no other income but their British pension/s - is exempt from Swiss medical insurance and covered by Form S1 via Lamal. This is not the case for those retired here who have a Swiss pension as well. The problem here is that after Dec2020, this will still be the case, but the cover will only be for Switzerland and the UK (NHS) - EHIC will no longer be valid, so no travel possible to EU or out of EU.
There is nothing 'reciprocal' Swiss OAP's pay in full for medical insurance & UK pensioners get free health cover. What the law says is you get the same as you would get where the pension comes from, so in your case FREE health cover.

You are getting an amazing deal, you should be happy, my Swiss OAP will cover my health insurance & nothing else if I select a 300 CHF franchise, however I will have a tax liability due to the pension.
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  #22  
Old 14.04.2020, 11:10
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Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1

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Couverture optimale durant les voyages avec les frais de guérison à l'étranger

Un bref séjour à New York, ça peut rapidement coûter une fortune, même sans faire trop de shopping. Dans de nombreux pays, les soins médicaux et hospitaliers sont nettement plus chers qu'en Suisse. La prestation d'assurance frais de guérison à l'étranger prend en charge les frais qui ne sont plus pris en charge par l'assurance-maladie obligatoire.
Isn’t that what you’re looking for? An insurance that will pay the medical costs that are not covered by the basic Lamal insurance.
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  #23  
Old 14.04.2020, 11:21
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Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1

There are a number of companies offering international medical coverage, I think Axa for one. I had a quick two month one to cover a gap many years ago. Probably not cheap, but is available.
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  #24  
Old 14.04.2020, 12:09
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Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1

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We have travel Insurance with La Mobilière - but it does not cover for medical costs- these are covered by your normal Swiss Insurance- the travel insurance would cover for over and above the double Swiss cost- not t'other way round. So yes, travel insurance exists in Switzerland- but it does not cover medical costs- only the excess.
So I found out that our AXA insurance doesn't cover medical costs, don't know how I didn't know this, thanks for bringing it to my attention

Looking online Allianz does.... up to 1 million. World nomads covers residents of any country. Anyone recommend any others?

Also, I have emailed my health insurance for advice, apparently it is possible to pay a supplement to them, if travelling to more expensive countries like the USA.
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Old 14.04.2020, 12:21
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Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1

That is the very point I am trying to get through - as highlighted above- medical Insurance avaialble in Switzerland, for Swiss residents - covers the excess and repatriation, not the medical costs per se.
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  #26  
Old 14.04.2020, 12:21
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Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1

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isn’t that what you’re looking for? An insurance that will pay the medical costs that are not covered by the basic lamal insurance.
no - as we are exempt from Lamal - and Form S1 exemption used to cover us via EHIC for EU (and not beyond) - the new rules are that from Dec 2020- Form S1 will only cover us in Switzerland and UK. So Swiss travel insurance will be useless- as it only covers excess and repatriation. The case recently won, and mentionned in the OP- seems to have challenged this sucessfully- so it is massively important for anyone in this situtation to understand this fully.

From December 2020 - people like us will be locked down forever - covered in CH, covered in UK by NHS - but with no cover anywhere else, EU or beyond, and no available insurance product to buy into. I know it seems hard to understand- but not that hard- surely? It is indeed very hard to solve though, and I am working very hard to find a solution before December. The article from Bon à Savoir, and this recently won case- could be the answer- but it needs to be fully investigated. Hence my request to find others in the same situation who would like to meet up and join forces.
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Old 14.04.2020, 13:31
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Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1

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n So Swiss travel insurance will be useless- as it only covers excess and repatriation.
Not all.... as I said Allianz covers medical costs upto 1 million. I'm sure there must be others too. World Nomads (not a Swiss company) will cover you too. I will not be going out of Europe without further coverage, way too risky.... I'm looking at options now.
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Old 14.04.2020, 13:36
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Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1

Yes, indeed, it covers you for what is not covered by your Swiss medical insurance.
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  #29  
Old 14.04.2020, 13:39
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Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1

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'This travel insurance covers medical costs abroad which are not covered by your compusory health insurance'

This is as quoted per Allianz travel insurance condtions.
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  #30  
Old 14.04.2020, 13:43
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Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1

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There is nothing 'reciprocal' Swiss OAP's pay in full for medical insurance & UK pensioners get free health cover. What the law says is you get the same as you would get where the pension comes from, so in your case FREE health cover.

You are getting an amazing deal, you should be happy, my Swiss OAP will cover my health insurance & nothing else if I select a 300 CHF franchise, however I will have a tax liability due to the pension.

We are indeed- and very very grateful. Your situation however is totally different- in as much as due to Swiss pension, you are not elegible for S1 exemption. As said, apples and oranges. And of course it is reciprocal - as Swiss OAPs in the UK get free NHS cover.

The point is, we were recently told that from December, this cover, outside CH and UK (NHS) would no longer be available and that we would have to buy Travel Insurance. Since then we have found that Travel Insurance as sold in Switzerland, would not cover us. Meaning that we would be totally trapped in CH or UK- with no chance at all to go to local France to shop or walk, etc. Not be able to drive to UK or take the train, not be able to go to Italy as we do every year- just trapped. We don't want to be, thanks.

This recent case may challenge this- hence our wish to pursue it and confirm it 100% sure.
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Old 14.04.2020, 13:44
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Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1

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Yes, indeed, it covers you for what is not covered by your Swiss medical insurance.
As I understand it the S1 exemption thing is treated exactly like Lamal coverage for Swiss residents.
Your best bet would be to contact them to find out but that is my understanding of it. You have the 300chf franchise and 10% co-pay just the same as for the Lamal insurance.
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  #32  
Old 14.04.2020, 13:52
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Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1

Yes, I am fully aware of this, of course- that works in CH. It will stop to work outside CH from Dec 2020. We were notified by Lamal of this and told to take up travel Insurance. We have tried- the product does NOT exist. We would therefore be covered, as you say, in CH and in the UK by NHS. But without possibility of any cover for EU, even France on our doorstep or anywhere else.

At my age, I do not wish to be trapped in 2 countries- however beautiful and wonderful both are.

The case I highlighted seems to challenge what we were told by Lamal and the British Embassy- it is therefore paramount that we follow this case and all its implications. We would like to do this with others in the same position. Is that not simple enough to understand- why turn this into an 'argument' or debate. It is what it is ...
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  #33  
Old 14.04.2020, 13:54
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Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1

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Yes, I am fully aware of this, of course- that works in CH. It will stop to work outside CH from Dec 2020. We were notified by Lamal of this and told to take up travel Insurance. We have tried- the product does NOT exist. We would therefore be covered, as you say, in CH and in the UK by NHS. But without possibility of any cover for EU, even France on our doorstep or anywhere else.

At my age, I do not wish to be trapped in 2 countries- however beautiful and wonderful both are.

The case I highlighted seems to challenge what we were told by Lamal and the British Embassy- it is therefore paramount that we follow this case and all its implications. We would like to do this with others in the same position. Is that not simple enough to understand- why turn this into an 'argument' or debate. It is what it is ...
You are only trapped If you are unable to get Swiss insurance. Is there a reason you are forbidden to get Swiss insurance?
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Old 14.04.2020, 14:40
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Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1

Indeed, you are right. So this would be our last resort. As Swiss basic insurance cannot refuse pre.existing conditions. So if there is no other way- this is what we will do. But if we can find a way to use S1 exemption- as the article quoted in OP seems to indicate- that would be amazing.

I am not asking for sympathy in any way, shape or form- but facts are facts. Until December 2020- we are covered by S1 just as we would be with basic Swiss health insurance. We have been told this would only apply to CH and UK, and not world wide, not even local EU. So if we have to subscribe to Basic Swiss Insurance, we will do. That, as you know, is very expensive- and not having to partly made up for huge drop in income level due to falling Sterling and strong CHF. It will also double insure us un-necessarily as we are fully covered in CH (where we are most likely to have any treament normally) and in the UK when we are there.

All I am asking here- is if there are others in the same situation who would like to join us in investigating, via all possible avenues- as the case quoted seems to give a possible avenue. Thanks.

FMF- you are very lucky to be covered by Bupa. OH has had a life threatening condition from the age of 23 - and was not expected to live to 50. He has since had other life-threatening conditions- he would never ever have been able to get Bupa- and neither would I after my terrible car crash aged 19. At 74, with his medical history, he would never be able to get Private Insurance - do you believe he should therefore stay at home and knit socks, perhaps?
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Old 14.04.2020, 15:02
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Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1

Odile can your current "deal provider" (no idea of proper term) not point you in the right direction? If you are indeed 'falling between two stools' then surely somewhere there is legislation to cover it?

I take it moving back to the UK is not an option?
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  #36  
Old 14.04.2020, 15:22
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Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1

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FMF- you are very lucky to be covered by Bupa. OH has had a life threatening condition from the age of 23 - and was not expected to live to 50. He has since had other life-threatening conditions- he would never ever have been able to get Bupa- and neither would I after my terrible car crash aged 19. At 74, with his medical history, he would never be able to get Private Insurance - do you believe he should therefore stay at home and knit socks, perhaps?
I have been paying BUPA since 1/1/1983, before my 19th birthday & continued paying whilst I had to pay Swiss health insurance, not that lucky!

You can apply for Swiss health insurance being a Swiss resident resident, you just don't want to pay for something that you have had for free for over 40 years, it's your choice, you are not trapped at all.
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Old 14.04.2020, 15:41
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Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1

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Yes, I am fully aware of this, of course- that works in CH. It will stop to work outside CH from Dec 2020. We were notified by Lamal of this and told to take up travel Insurance. We have tried- the product does NOT exist. We would therefore be covered, as you say, in CH and in the UK by NHS. But without possibility of any cover for EU, even France on our doorstep or anywhere else.

At my age, I do not wish to be trapped in 2 countries- however beautiful and wonderful both are.

The case I highlighted seems to challenge what we were told by Lamal and the British Embassy- it is therefore paramount that we follow this case and all its implications. We would like to do this with others in the same position. Is that not simple enough to understand- why turn this into an 'argument' or debate. It is what it is ...
Either I am being incredibly thick or you are not explaining things very well here because I am having a hard time understanding it all.

There seem to be two different things involved here.

The case in your OP involves the S1 and Lamal and an EU national.
The situation at the end of 2020 for a UK national will seemingly be totally different as your S1 will no longer be considered as Lamal.

I’m not sure how you can compare the two.
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  #38  
Old 14.04.2020, 16:21
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Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1

Yes, it will. and that is the whole point.
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  #39  
Old 14.04.2020, 16:30
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Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1

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I have been paying BUPA since 1/1/1983, before my 19th birthday & continued paying whilst I had to pay Swiss health insurance, not that lucky!

You can apply for Swiss health insurance being a Swiss resident resident, you just don't want to pay for something that you have had for free for over 40 years, it's your choice, you are not trapped at all.
Well yes, I can see your point with Bupa. OH was a medical student, from a very modest family- until he qualified in 69. In 68, he nearly died, due to a condition which was a direct consequence of very long hours and stress. So even if he had wanted to join Bupa- he could never have done. It was almost impossible to get a mortgage, and we had to pay huge extra sums all our life for that reason. Mind you, he wouldn't have wanted to- he was 100% dedicated to the NHS- and the first thing he did when he became Senior Partner- is to get rid of the large and lucrative Private practice acquired by his previous partners. Not sure you would understand why- and this truly does not belong to this thread.

So- if anyone finds themselves as said above 'falling between 2 stools' then do get in touch- thanks- I truly feel studying this case would be interesting, and possibly very worthwhile. Stangely enough, the firm who won the case, is the same firm that did the Conveyancing for our house purchase 12 years ago.


Of course moving back to the UK is an option. We have a property there- we have daughters and grandchildren there and fabulous friends. If I ever go back to the UK, it is because I want to- not because I am forced to - and to be frank, who would want to go back to UK at the moment. Not me, for sure. Thanks. Especially at a time when part of family might well move over here.
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  #40  
Old 14.04.2020, 16:46
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Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1

Wait, you get free health insurance for CH and UK yet it's not enough as you want it worldwide?
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