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Guest 13.04.2020 14:20

Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1
 
We are looking to form a group with others who rely on Form S1 for their basic health insurance- eg, people of State retired age in their country, with NO pension, and NO salary or income coming from Switzerland. I imagine there are indeed very few of us- but would really like to join up with anyone in the same position- to discuss the implications- and perhaps club together to ask for an audience and advice from the Lawyer who clearly studied that situation carefully for the case.


A case has been reported in the Romand Consumer magazine- of a retired person from the Netherlands who sustained an injury whilst abroad (not EU)- and Lamal refused to pay. They took the case to a Lawyer in the NE Canton- and won- so has become Law in principle. The argument is that those reliant on Insurance via Form S1 should get the same level of Insurance as Swiss citizens or residents on Basic Insurance- eg up to twice the cost it would have been if treated in Switzerland. This is massively important for all of us in the same position.

fatmanfilms 13.04.2020 14:25

Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1
 
Quote:

We are looking to form a group with others who rely on Form S1 for their basic health insurance- eg, people of State retired age in their country, with NO pension, and NO salary or income coming from Switzerland. I imagine there are indeed very few of us- but would really like to join up with anyone in the same position- to discuss the implications- and perhaps club together to ask for an audience and advice from the Lawyer who clearly studied that situation carefully for the case.


A case has been reported in the Romand Consumer magazine- of a retired person from the Netherlands who sustained an injury whilst abroad (not EU)- and Lamal refused to pay. They took the case to a Lawyer in the NE Canton- and won- so has become Law in principle. The argument is that those reliant on Insurance via Form S1 should get the same level of Insurance as Swiss citizens or residents on Basic Insurance- eg up to twice the cost it would have been if treated in Switzerland. This is massively important for all of us in the same position.
They should have an EHIC card from the Netherlands, so cover in France would be standard.

I guess that won't be an issue for you past 31/12 as you will have to pay for your own Swiss health insurance as Swiss pensioners do today.

Guest 13.04.2020 14:33

Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1
 
Well, that is the very point FMF- thanks.

The point being that the product we know in the UK as 'travel insurance' does NOT exist in Switzerland- as Swiss and residents are automatically covered for twice the amount it would cost in Switzerland. That basically means that Retirees from the UK, will still be covered by S1 in Switzerland, and NHS in the UK - but nowhere else in the world, EU or non EU. You can't buy a product that does not exist. Some have advised to buy Travel Insurance from the UK, using our UK address. That to my mind would be wrong a) because it is fraud b) they would repatriate us to UK address if we had to be repatriated and c) if they got wind of the fact we are not UK residents- they would refuse to pay.

The case won in February is massively important in this context- and it would be good to link up with anyone else in this situation so we get it legally clarified before December, when the EHIC will become obsolete for Brits. Thanks.

fatmanfilms 13.04.2020 14:40

Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1
 
Quote:

Well, that is the very point FMF- thanks.

The point being that the product we know in the UK as 'travel insurance' does NOT exist in Switzerland- as Swiss and residents are automatically covered for twice the amount it would cost in Switzerland. That basically means that Retirees from the UK, will still be covered by S1 in Switzerland, and NHS in the UK - but nowhere else in the world, EU or non EU. You can't buy a product that does not exist. Some have advised to buy Travel Insurance from the UK, using our UK address. That to my mind would be wrong a) because it is fraud b) they would repatriate us to UK address if we had to be repatriated and c) if they got wind of the fact we are not UK residents- they would refuse to pay.

The case won in February is massively important in this context- and it would be good to link up with anyone else in this situation so we get it legally clarified before December, when the EHIC will become obsolete for Brits. Thanks.
I only get free health cover in Malta, not entitled to UK NHS. I have to pay for BUPA to cover other medical expenses, I will have to take Swiss Health insurance if I take my Swiss OAP at normal retirement age even if I was in the UK!

Guest 13.04.2020 14:46

Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1
 
Yes, I know. I do not have a Swiss pension- which is why we are covered by S1. Totally different situation.

Do you really think BUPA would take us on, aged 69 and 74 - with pre-existing conditions, and in Switzerland?

Mainly, the situation in the title thread does not apply to you- and I would be grateful to hear from anyone to whom it does- thanks. You will be be able to get cover from NHS when you are of official retirement age in the UK - and providing you have paid into that system all your working life- as we have. Apples - oranges.

The article is 9C_265/2019 18.02.2020
Strangely enough, the Lawyer firm is the one who dealt with our house purchase 12 years ago. In the meantime, I shall get in touch with Bon à Savoir legal services to clarify a few points which are not clear in the article.

fatmanfilms 13.04.2020 15:39

Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1
 
Quote:

Yes, I know. I do not have a Swiss pension- which is why we are covered by S1. Totally different situation.

Do you really think BUPA would take us on, aged 69 and 74 - with pre-existing conditions, and in Switzerland?

Mainly, the situation in the title thread does not apply to you- and I would be grateful to hear from anyone to whom it does- thanks. You will be be able to get cover from NHS when you are of official retirement age in the UK - and providing you have paid into that system all your working life- as we have. Apples - oranges.

The article is 9C_265/2019 18.02.2020
Strangely enough, the Lawyer firm is the one who dealt with our house purchase 12 years ago. In the meantime, I shall get in touch with Bon à Savoir legal services to clarify a few points which are not clear in the article.
UK retirement age & Swiss retirement ages are not the same, so if living in the UK I would have to pay Swiss medical insurance to access the NHS or go privately, of course Swiss insurance is a pretty good deal as premiums are not based on actual risk, so significantly cheaper than BUPA aged 63 +

Guest 13.04.2020 15:54

Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1
 
Yes, I am fully aware thanks. When we arrived here, OH had taken slightly early retirement so we had to pay Swiss Insurance until he became of official UK State retirement pension. We also did not have access to NHS anymore, until the rules changed recently. After UK retirement age, we both became elegible for cover for basic insurance via Form S1, me 5 years younger, as his 'dependent'. But this is not the point. I know it grates with you, big time, and I am sorry it does. Can you imagine trying to access BUPA now, after the terrible accident you had?

If there is anyone here, or knows anyone in that position- eg British retiree who has paid into UK system all their life and now retired here without any Swiss income or Pension- do get in touch. Following up this case would probably pay massive dividends.

Guest 13.04.2020 20:13

Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1
 
I guess there are not many of us then ?

Belgianmum 13.04.2020 20:21

Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1
 
Quote:

I guess there are not many of us then ?
Probably not. Switzerland probably isn’t the place people would think of to retire to unless they had a decent Swiss pension.

Guest 13.04.2020 20:30

Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1
 
Well yes, currently with such low values for Sterling - but when we made the decision, it truly made sense. Compared to many places in the UK, buying a house was much cheaper here (not in Zurich, Zug, Geneva or any Rivieras of course), taxes lower- and living near France- cheaper shopping. But yes, when you lose 60% of income solely to low Sterling value- and then facing the loss of EHIC without any alternatives- then it becomes another story.

So following up this case could be very worthwhile. Holiday/travel insurance does not exist in Switzerland as it is included in normal Swiss Insurance (you can buy holiday insurance to cover excess + costs over and above double) - so paying for such is not possible. So far, the only option is to go back to having full Swiss Health and accident insurance - therefore paying for cover one does not need- in order to get travel cover. (Form S1 providing cover for Switzerland and NHS for UK). I don't think anyone in high places has even considered some of us would end up with no travel cover at all from Dec 2020- not even to go shopping or walking just a couple of km from home - never mind going 'travelling'.

Island Monkey 13.04.2020 23:26

Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1
 
Quote:

The point being that the product we know in the UK as 'travel insurance' does NOT exist in Switzerland
I have Swiss travel insurance through AXA :confused:

Belgianmum 13.04.2020 23:33

Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Island Monkey (Post 3171131)
I have Swiss travel insurance through AXA :confused:

We also have it through Allianz.

Island Monkey 13.04.2020 23:40

Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1
 
Although ... now you’ve got me wondering if we are covered medically. I can’t see anything about medical costs. Wondering if not what happens if it’s more than 2x Swiss prices, if you’re in the USA etc?

Belgianmum 14.04.2020 00:08

Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1
 
Is this one?

https://www.allianz-assistance.ch/fr...ivate-medical/

AbFab 14.04.2020 07:15

Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Belgianmum (Post 3171132)
We also have it through Allianz.

I have it through Zurich Relax...

fatmanfilms 14.04.2020 08:42

Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Island Monkey (Post 3171134)
Although ... now you’ve got me wondering if we are covered medically. I can’t see anything about medical costs. Wondering if not what happens if it’s more than 2x Swiss prices, if you’re in the USA etc?

You have to pay the extra above twice the Swiss costs.

catandmouse 14.04.2020 09:43

Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1
 
I don't see what getting a Swiss pension (AHV) has to do with health insurance. The two aren't related in Switzerland. If you are a Swiss resident and properly registered with the local authority (commune or Gemeinde) you are obliged to have Swiss medical insurance. There are a few exceptions, mainly for students/researchers, and I guess possibly for diplomats, but I don't see any way there should be for pensioners.

Guest 14.04.2020 10:36

Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 3171162)
You have to pay the extra above twice the Swiss costs.

We have travel Insurance with La Mobilière - but it does not cover for medical costs- these are covered by your normal Swiss Insurance- the travel insurance would cover for over and above the double Swiss cost- not t'other way round. So yes, travel insurance exists in Switzerland- but it does not cover medical costs- only the excess.

Guest 14.04.2020 10:43

Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by catandmouse (Post 3171182)
I don't see what getting a Swiss pension (AHV) has to do with health insurance. The two aren't related in Switzerland. If you are a Swiss resident and properly registered with the local authority (commune or Gemeinde) you are obliged to have Swiss medical insurance. There are a few exceptions, mainly for students/researchers, and I guess possibly for diplomats, but I don't see any way there should be for pensioners.

Well- I can see your point. It is based on reciprocal agreements - and it is the Law. A British retiree in the EU and Switzerland, who receives No Swiss pension and has no other income but their British pension/s - is exempt from Swiss medical insurance and covered by Form S1 via Lamal. This is not the case for those retired here who have a Swiss pension as well. The problem here is that after Dec2020, this will still be the case, but the cover will only be for Switzerland and the UK (NHS) - EHIC will no longer be valid, so no travel possible to EU or out of EU.

Guest 14.04.2020 10:47

Re: Any other British or EU retirees who get Lamal insurance via Form S1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Belgianmum (Post 3171137)

Couverture optimale durant les voyages avec les frais de guérison à l'étranger

Un bref séjour à New York, ça peut rapidement coûter une fortune, même sans faire trop de shopping. Dans de nombreux pays, les soins médicaux et hospitaliers sont nettement plus chers qu'en Suisse. La prestation d'assurance frais de guérison à l'étranger prend en charge les frais qui ne sont plus pris en charge par l'assurance-maladie obligatoire.

'This travel insurance covers medical costs abroad which are not covered by your compusory health insurance'


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