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Old 21.12.2020, 03:13
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IV related, not sure what to do from here

Hi all,

Had another suicide attempt this weekend, things don't seem to be getting better and not sure where to search for a solution...

A few years ago, I got married in Switzerland and was lucky enough to be pregnant two months later. I had a lot of hormonal and pregnancy health issues that could not be surgically performed during pregnancy so most of my time was spent on bed rest. Our household income was from my husband's job and we lived in a 1 BR apartment living frugally as he had previous taxes, military taxes to pay off - we had no extra money for me to go learn German online or offline. I tried to get through the best I could with free/cheap online programs, vocabularies were learnt, conversations and grammar were not.

I had started seeing a psychologist for the first time in Switzerland towards the end of my pregnancy because my hormonal changes escalated (I also had long term depression). Postpartum, everything got worse financially, physically (health deterioration with required surgeries), ontop of being a new parent. Things eventually calmed down a bit but we were always stressed out because new problems kept coming and it seemed like it would never stop. We then, made a decision to have another child because the chance of having one in few years for a healthy baby was much lower (cardiac disease related).

During my second pregnancy, I've had to switch psychologists as the previous one was no longer at the clinic. I started breaking down, hallucinating, having panic attacks that will not allow for me to sleep or go through a day without breaking down. I ended up at the crisis intervention, usually they take patients for 3 weeks, I had to stay for 7 weeks as things were not getting better. I only ended up leaving because I have to get used to handling everything at home before my second child arrives. The transition was supposed to be for me to go to the day clinic, but there were a lot of miscommunications from the crisis intervention clinic to the day clinic, as the day clinic decided it will not be a good idea for me to take a spot when they can't do the activities in English. I left the day clinic before being registered, to also give myself a break from being in the clinics. At this point, there were so many things from the crisis intervention that did not work well bureaucratically, and I was later into the pregnancy with less stamina.

This was what I was told by the social worker from the first clinic (at 1 month into pregnancy): They can't help me find a job in English because that is not their specialty and they have never done it before.

at 3 months into pregnancy: I should sign up for IV because they do not only work with disability insurance budget, they have programs or can refer to other programs for people trying to get a job, going back to work, training programs including language programs going back to work. But none of this will happen unless I go through the general application, provide documentations, do an interview.

Due to the clinic's private social worker suggestion, I applied for IV last year on December 24th, never heard back, called them in March to find out about the progress, apparently they never got the application with their new system update, so I reapplied as soon as I could. They got back to me and asked for my family physician's note. My family physician changed earlier this year due to the retirement of my previous physician, I was just placed in the praxis' next available doctor, and this was my first time meeting the new doctor. He gave me a lesson on how IV does not give free money, I shouldn't sign up for it, I should go to work instead of being at home, before I told him the summary of my situation. He then told me he had no idea IV provides other programs asides from financial support for disability, and told me he will write what he thinks of my situation and sends it in.

Earlier this month I received a rejection letter without any assessment, followup, interview by IV saying that they cannot help me financially at all. I haven't been successful at persuading my now given up husband to tell them in German that what I need is access to something so I can get the language/training to work, not funds handed to me. Also, the information they requested from the family physician is someone who is essentially a complete stranger and does not know much about my mental history.

What are my next possible steps? In a few months, my premature baby will be slightly older and ready for kita (neither one of us has family willing to help on a daily basis) - so it will be costly having two kids in kita, but it's necessary if I want to learn German, work, and go to the day clinic.


p.s. Things we have done to keep food on the table and stay alive: downsize apartment to 2 bedrooms for 4 people, shop at discounters, eating stickered groceries, not gone on vacation and haven't left Switzerland for 2.5 years, sell stuff we don't use anymore, all of our kids' clothes were donated or bought second hand, we made most toys for the kids with recycled materials, haven't eaten at a restaurant for over 2 years, only shop at denner and aldi, most of what we buy in the grocery store is on promotion unless necessary (baby stuff, diapers, vitamins, allergy prevention)
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Old 21.12.2020, 13:56
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Re: IV related, not sure what to do from here

Many jobs can be performed in English in CH. Although these are difficult times, consider looking in tourist areas and at airports where English is an important language. "Hilfskraft" work, such as packing, shipping, assembly and cleaning, can often be done in English. Search internet job sites on "English", "Airport", "Housekeeping" and also "Hilfskraft". These are job boards might prove useful:

https://www.job-room.ch/job-search

https://www.indeed.ch/

https://www.coople.com/ch/en/

https://www.liliput.ch/stellenmarkt

Good luck to you!
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Old 21.12.2020, 14:05
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Re: IV related, not sure what to do from here

In some State schools, German lesson fees are waived if you meet the certain requirements.

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Old 21.12.2020, 14:48
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Re: IV related, not sure what to do from here

https://www.kathbern.ch/fachstellen-...m-region-bern/

They offer a long list of free resources

When on the website click on the underlined word hier
It will take you to a PDF file with lots of adresses & free language classes, resources etc in Bern.

"Weitere Deutsch- und Französisch-Kurse für Migrantinnen und Migranten im Kanton Bern finden Sie hier."


You should also contact Pro Infirmis
https://www.proinfirmis.ch/angebot/bern.html


"We are committed to adults before the AHV age and children with mental, physical or cognitive impairments. Our offers are also aimed at family members as well as all reference and specialists for people with disabilities."

"Social counseling
Our social counseling is the first point of contact for people with disabilities and their relatives.

The social counseling is aimed at people with a disability and their relatives. It is a free offer and includes advice and support in various areas of life. Social counseling helps to cope with challenging life situations and to develop perspectives. Providing information, especially about social security, is just as much a part of it as helping with financial bottlenecks. Our online advice supplements the services offered by the advice centers and enables an anonymous initial contact."


Your rejected IV application can be appealed. This is something Pro Infirmis can help you with.

Last edited by Sigh; 21.12.2020 at 15:04. Reason: Added info
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Old 21.12.2020, 16:04
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Re: IV related, not sure what to do from here

I would ask your general practitioner to refer you to a psychiatrist. Once the psychiatrist gets to know you, they can maybe help with the IV application. Ideally, of course, yes, try to find a job in the meantime...maybe in cleaning? Even if you need to advertise privately. They seem to charge a fair amount in Switzerland and many who do it have very limited language skills.

If you are dealing with suicidal thoughts though, you really should have been referred to a crises intervention center. Was this not done? Did you seek help after your suicide attempt. Again, I would speak to the Hausarzt and request some referrals to help with your mental health, that should take absolute priority anyway but not least of all, with 2 young children. If your general practitioner doesn’t help you, find one who does. Change doctors until you find one that at least takes your mental health issues seriously.

Good luck.
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Old 21.12.2020, 16:33
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Re: IV related, not sure what to do from here

Regarding Kita cost in Bern

You can apply for childcare vouchers if these points apply:

Your place of residence under civil law is in the city of Bern.
You and your partner are employed or you are completing a state-recognized training, you are registered with the RAV or have a social or health indication.
Your relevant family income is less than CHF 160,000.00 (for vouchers from August 1, 2020).
The daycare center participates in the voucher system and has guaranteed you a childcare place.
If you have not yet found a childcare place, you will find all voucher daycare centers on our daycare list .

The kita list & more information can be found here
https://www.bern.ch/themen/kinder-ju...ungsgutscheine
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Old 21.12.2020, 17:05
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Re: IV related, not sure what to do from here

Have you considered seeing a psychiatrist instead of a psychologist? It sounds like a psychiatrist may be better able to help you, particularly with medical issues and if any of your depression is medical-related (e.g. low vitamin D, low iron or B12, etc.).

Regarding your financial situation... Have you ever gone to your Gemeinde to ask them about what kind of assistance might be available? I believe there are a few organizations here in Switzerland that are dedicated to assisting people and families who are struggling financially, such as Winterhilfe and Caritas:

https://www.winterhilfe.ch/

https://www.caritas.ch/en/home.html

Many warm thoughts for you and your family... Please never lose sight of the fact that things can get better. <3

Edit: Sorry, I see now that Capetownian has also suggested a psychiatrist.
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Old 21.12.2020, 18:09
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Re: IV related, not sure what to do from here

Sorry to hear about your situation.


Please note that IV is brutal in Switzerland, never go to them in expectation to receive immediate help. Understand that their first and primary goal is to reject you and they will do so on principle even if you are broke beyond repair and all doctors say so. IV does not care, they will only listen to their own "Medas" docs that will write you healthy on initial check. Medas are bastards who sold their souls to IV, many of those so-called "doctors" live off IV and they write what is expected of them. You will need to spend years to penetrate that "armor", this is conscious political decision. Be ready for humiliation, racism (your origin will be mentioned on the first page of "medas" report, even if you hold Swiss Passport), lies and long, long fight.
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Old 21.12.2020, 18:18
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Re: IV related, not sure what to do from here

You can also turn to the social office for further assistance

Social Office of the City of Bern
The social welfare office of the city of Bern is a department of the Directorate for Education, Social Affairs and Sport (BSS). The Social Services of the City of Bern and the KA Labor Competence Center are located under the umbrella of the Social Welfare Office.

The social welfare office ensures:

Professional integration: Job seekers should be (re) integrated into the labor market as quickly and sustainably as possible.
Appropriate training: The social welfare office promotes vocational training and other qualification measures for the people looked after by the social welfare office.
social integration: the social welfare office provides meaningful activities and structures that enable social participation.

https://www.bern.ch/politik-und-verw.../bss/sozialamt


Competence Center Work KA

The KA Work Competence Center supports unemployed people with training and employment in their professional and social integration. The KA is part of the social welfare office of the city of Bern.

Accompany, challenge and encourage, coach, train, educate, produce, create, convey and point out perspectives. These are important activities and tasks in the everyday work of the around 120 employees at the KA Labor Competence Center.

The KA arranges jobs and assignments in numerous external companies as well as in internal companies and workshops. This combination opens up diverse and therefore sustainable employment and work opportunities for those affected. In addition, the products and services of the internal operations generate economic or ecological added value for the public.

https://www.bern.ch/politik-und-verw...-26.4587373273
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Old 21.12.2020, 20:27
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Re: IV related, not sure what to do from here

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Sorry to hear about your situation.


Please note that IV is brutal in Switzerland, never go to them in expectation to receive immediate help. Understand that their first and primary goal is to reject you and they will do so on principle even if you are broke beyond repair and all doctors say so. IV does not care, they will only listen to their own "Medas" docs that will write you healthy on initial check. Medas are bastards who sold their souls to IV, many of those so-called "doctors" live off IV and they write what is expected of them. You will need to spend years to penetrate that "armor", this is conscious political decision. Be ready for humiliation, racism (your origin will be mentioned on the first page of "medas" report, even if you hold Swiss Passport), lies and long, long fight.
This is just not true. At all. Unless you are one of those ''Medas'' who sold his soul to IV and know things from the inside, please stop spreading lies. Kind regards.
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Old 21.12.2020, 20:33
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Re: IV related, not sure what to do from here

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Please note that IV is brutal in Switzerland, never go to them in expectation to receive immediate help. Understand that their first and primary goal is to reject you and they will do so on principle even if you are broke beyond repair and all doctors say so. IV does not care, they will only listen to their own "Medas" docs that will write you healthy on initial check. Medas are bastards who sold their souls to IV, many of those so-called "doctors" live off IV and they write what is expected of them. You will need to spend years to penetrate that "armor", this is conscious political decision. Be ready for humiliation, racism (your origin will be mentioned on the first page of "medas" report, even if you hold Swiss Passport), lies and long, long fight.
Rubbish, I know several people who are, or have been, on IV with none of the nonsense you claim!

Tom
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Old 21.12.2020, 21:32
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Re: IV related, not sure what to do from here

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Rubbish, I know several people who are, or have been, on IV with none of the nonsense you claim!

Tom
I wouldnt call what Son of Mon said rubbish, a good friend of ours had to fight hard despite his sickness beeing obvious to everyone except the IV specialist. It took well over 1.5 years until all was completed. Luckily he had a good GP who didnt give up. I guess it comes down to personal experience & maybe even which canton one is based in.

Last edited by Sigh; 21.12.2020 at 21:34. Reason: Spelling
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Old 21.12.2020, 21:38
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Re: IV related, not sure what to do from here

Thank you all for the wonderful advice!

We've been using the Bernese kita vouchers for a while now, but with two kids they re-evaluated and we have to pay twice as much as before per kid.

Unfortunately I am already on a network of English speaking psychiatrists waiting list for about a year now in order to get a psychoanalyst examination and neuro system psychotherapy. They have only gotten busier with COVID-19, so I can only see my psychologist now for systematic approach in therapy. She even had to increase workload just to help out at her clinic. I am also trying to switch to another family doctor as the current is rather far from me, and dismisses a lot of my concerns with other areas, but there is also a waitlist for other family doctors.

At the notfall I had a long discussion with the doctors, unfortunately I couldn't stay over due to their full capacity for covid positive patients, and the immediate position for crisis intervention is outside of Bern, requiring long stay with no visits which would not be ideal for my family. Most psychiatry clinics are not taking patients over Christmas and New Years, and it will depend on the other patients' condition to see if they will be checking out the clinic. It will also be a headache to figure out who can help with watching the kids temporarily overnight or in another situation, as most of our relatives are not in Switzerland, the ones that live here are in high risk groups and are already diagnosed with covid.

I hope you are all healthy and safe during this covid season.
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Old 21.12.2020, 23:35
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Re: IV related, not sure what to do from here

I must say, you have a very can-do and non-pity-party attitude. You are really trying hard. I really hope you can maintain it until something gives and you are able to get some help. Please just keep at it and go to the emergency unit if you start to feel actively suicidal again, for you and your children. You really do sound like a survivor - the cream always rises to the top, don’t give up, things will get better and in a few years this will be just a bad memory.
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Old 21.12.2020, 23:55
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Re: IV related, not sure what to do from here

If I may add something... I realize that your situation is difficult right now, but please try to keep in mind that your depression may be caused by an imbalance in your neurotransmitters (for example, low serotonin). If you have not already gone on an anti-depressant, it may be something to consider, though of course that is something to discuss with your doctor first, and I also suggest having full blood work done first to check for low vitamin D, etc. You do have to be careful with anti-depressants, as they do have a potential to make suicidal thoughts worse. But I know of a few friends who were suicidal and it was only an anti-depressant that was finally able to lift them out of the darkness, so to speak, because their brains were simply not producing enough serotonin otherwise.

Also... If you ever, ever feel alone and just need someone, anyone to talk to... please do not hesitate to send me a private message.

And please keep in mind how much your children need you.
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Old 22.12.2020, 00:01
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Re: IV related, not sure what to do from here

So sorry... yet one more thing. What are your children's ages? I have a son who is now 9 years old, and we have so many toys and books here (mostly English) that we do not need and he no longer plays with -- some of them have barely been played with at all. I would be more than happy to send some to you in the Post, for Xmas gifts for your kids, if they are the right ages. If you are interested, please do send me a message.
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Old 22.12.2020, 00:23
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Re: IV related, not sure what to do from here

I am currently taking mood stabilizers instead of full-on anti-depressants to continue breastfeeding (my 8 month old was born premature at 33 weeks so I just want to give her the best possible nutrients until she reaches 12 months). My other kid is only 2 and a half so he does not read yet. Thanks for your kindness and offer with the gifts and books but I think another family with slightly older kids would be making better use of them. I wish you and your family a good holiday!
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Old 22.12.2020, 01:11
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Re: IV related, not sure what to do from here

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I am currently taking mood stabilizers instead of full-on anti-depressants to continue breastfeeding (my 8 month old was born premature at 33 weeks so I just want to give her the best possible nutrients until she reaches 12 months). My other kid is only 2 and a half so he does not read yet. Thanks for your kindness and offer with the gifts and books but I think another family with slightly older kids would be making better use of them. I wish you and your family a good holiday!
Thanks, dear. (I'm sorry, I guess I didn't realize that your children are so young). I wish you and your family all the best... and a Merry Christmas.
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Old 01.01.2021, 02:39
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Re: IV related, not sure what to do from here

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This is just not true. At all. Unless you are one of those ''Medas'' who sold his soul to IV and know things from the inside, please stop spreading lies. Kind regards.
Oh, this is true and I know this first hand, based on a story of someone very close to me. I have been there and assisted in fights with courts. Medas is corrupt beyond repair, those so-called "doctors" live off IV "audits" and they are neither independent nor interested to help the patient, they will write what IV wants to hear.

The system is broken thanks to SVP and other populists that love to beat on weak people and opened a hate campaign on unfortunates who need help.

Here are some links from what is available in public:

https://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/guta...gnis-rente-weg
https://www.parlament.ch/de/ratsbetr...airId=20194623
https://www.blick.ch/schweiz/gutacht...d15608481.html

And many, many others.

Oh, and, just a little detail for you to chew on: the person I was supporting was crying from pain during the meeting with the Medas because they where forcing some moves that where not possible and the Medas "doctor" was laughing. In the final document "doctor" wrote that the patient did not cooperate and refused to execute movements. The person was practically immobile for a week after that "audit" and it was me who took care of that person and I will never forget or forgive that bastard "doctor" in particular and the system that allows such things to happen.

Last edited by Son of Mom; 01.01.2021 at 03:35.
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Old 01.01.2021, 02:55
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Re: IV related, not sure what to do from here

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Rubbish, I know several people who are, or have been, on IV with none of the nonsense you claim!

Tom
Perhaps things are different in Ticino but where I live this is sad reality. I have experienced that first hand because someone very close to me went through this and I accompanied that person from day 1 until victory (which took many, many years).

During out fight we met enough other people who where in same boat and shared our horror stories.

Of course you are free to think otherwise but I have learned my lesson hard way and I do know that one should never count on quick help, compassion, fairness and understanding from the front-line "guard dogs" of IV/Medas.

Real trouble is that majority of insurances will pay out only if IV accepts the disability and thus one should be able to survive for ~5 years without income while fight goes on. 2 years are easily covered by "KTG" but the other 3 are difficult... there are insurances to bridge that gap but they are pricey.

Last edited by Son of Mom; 01.01.2021 at 03:36.
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