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-   -   Pillar 2 survivor and orphan pension in case of suicide. (https://www.englishforum.ch/insurance/305074-pillar-2-survivor-orphan-pension-case-suicide.html)

Babyface 21.07.2021 15:34

Pillar 2 survivor and orphan pension in case of suicide.
 
Touching a sensitive topic here.

Pillar 2 survivor and orphan pension depends on either if it was sickness or accident.
Where does suicide fall? Is it considered sickness or accident or anything else?
Also is survivor pension paid at all in such case?

Thank you!

Juliet31 21.07.2021 15:48

Re: Pillar 2 survivor and orphan pension in case of suicide.
 
Where does suicide fall? Good question. A good friend of mine shot himself at the end of April. Accident insurance and sickness insurance is still fighting about this exact question.

I 'm pretty sure the pension should be paid. But each insurance wants the other one to pay. Not a nice situation for the widow.

roegner 21.07.2021 15:51

Re: Pillar 2 survivor and orphan pension in case of suicide.
 
And if this is a question for a friend and nothing has yet happened: please get help. Hopefully someone will for sure be able to guide you/him/her to the right place to get support!

Www.suizidprävention-zh.ch

Urs Max 21.07.2021 20:24

Re: Pillar 2 survivor and orphan pension in case of suicide.
 
Suicide is intentional thus can't be an accident. Personally, I'd find it odd if it was classed as disease, but that's just IMHO.

SUVA says (the national accident insurance corporation)(bold by me):
Quote:

By legal definition, an accident is "a sudden, unintentional harmful effect of an unusual external factor on the human body that results in impairment of physical, mental and psychological health or death". If one of these aspects is missing, the event is not classified as an accident but as a disease.

fatmanfilms 21.07.2021 20:27

Re: Pillar 2 survivor and orphan pension in case of suicide.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Urs Max (Post 3330125)
Suicide is intentional thus can't be an accident.

SUVA says (the national accident insurance corporation)(bold by me):

Interestingly UK Corporate life insurance attached to pensions, often 4 years salary will pay out without question for suicide.
For personal life insurance policies they have to be a year old before suicide is covered.

Urs Max 21.07.2021 20:43

Re: Pillar 2 survivor and orphan pension in case of suicide.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 3330126)
Interestingly UK Corporate life insurance attached to pensions, often 4 years salary will pay out without question for suicide.
For personal life insurance policies they have to be a year old before suicide is covered.

I'm surprised suicide is covered at all with personal life insurance, this opens the door to abuse.

fatmanfilms 21.07.2021 20:50

Re: Pillar 2 survivor and orphan pension in case of suicide.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Urs Max (Post 3330139)
I'm surprised suicide is covered at all with personal life insurance, this opens the door to abuse.

They consider if you have lived a year, you were of reasonably sound mind when you took out the policy. More likely abuse is a much higher sum insured, then just a few weeks later falling out of a window. (pushed by partner named on the insurance, people get inpatient & greedy)

See random insurers statement on the matter, first result in google
https://www.legalandgeneral.com/life...cover-suicide/

mossie 22.07.2021 23:12

Re: Pillar 2 survivor and orphan pension in case of suicide.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Urs Max (Post 3330125)
Suicide is intentional thus can't be an accident. Personally, I'd find it odd if it was classed as disease, but that's just IMHO.

SUVA says (the national accident insurance corporation)(bold by me):

Well I guess suicide is the final act brought on by a disease, be it depression, addiction etc.

meloncollie 23.07.2021 08:51

Re: Pillar 2 survivor and orphan pension in case of suicide.
 
In the case of a friend's husband, he was in treatment for depression at the time of the suicide. Given the history, it was a deemed illness without question.

I do not know if this is the norm.

My best wishes to you, Babyface.

LtSoftDrink 23.07.2021 13:25

Re: Pillar 2 survivor and orphan pension in case of suicide.
 
I hasten to support the above and urge getting help. If, regrettably, the question is posed after the fact by the survivor, can’t say here’s a clear cut answer. However, a quick internet search would indicate that a regular 2nd pillar pension is not impacted by suicide. Perhaps exemptions (as per their specific articles) exist.
I came across a case where the surviving husband’s widower pension was finally approved although the couple were divorcing. Reasoning: the marriage was ended by death, not divorce.
https://sozialversicherungen.admin.c.../6132/download
check entry “118” => 748

Additionally, it would seem that in CH even life insurances are not automatically void when activated by suicide after a “grace” period of three years
https://thebroker.ch/zahlt-die-leben...selbsttoetung/

=> links in German - my info is hardly comprehensive...


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