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  #261  
Old 15.12.2010, 10:31
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama (Update: Site now on a Swiss domain)

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Michael Moore was the one who posted bail. Interesting article by Moore.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michae..._b_796319.html

hang on, his bail was set at £240k Moore offered $20k so not really posting his bail is he.
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  #262  
Old 15.12.2010, 10:52
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama (Update: Site now on a Swiss domain)

What is being done to him is absolutely pathetic!

I have the following message for some of the stuck up people in America who are calling for his death- "Why so serious?"
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  #263  
Old 15.12.2010, 10:53
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama (Update: Site now on a Swiss domain)

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hang on, his bail was set at £240k Moore offered $20k so not really posting his bail is he.

But it's Michael Moore, so he deserves all the credit.
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  #264  
Old 15.12.2010, 11:20
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama (Update: Site now on a Swiss domain)

I personally found it amazing that the US air force has banned all websites that report the cables. Not through an email to the staff telling them not to read cables during work hours, but electronically blocked the access to the New York Times, Guardian and so on!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/1..._n_796799.html

Remember that one when CNN reports the next time with a sorry looking face that China blocked the BBC for the time they reported about Chinese dissidents...
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  #265  
Old 15.12.2010, 12:07
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama (Update: Site now on a Swiss domain)

I don't think America looked too bad in the cables - we get a glimpse into the pragmatic world of diplomacy and although they have to say something else publicly you can see democratic values and liberal attitudes behind the scenes.

On the other hand America's response to the leaks has been absolutely appalling: vindictive, kneejerk, trampling on rights, against freedom of speech, inconsistent (why target Assange, but not the New York Times), etc etc.
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  #266  
Old 15.12.2010, 12:14
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama (Update: Site now on a Swiss domain)

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I don't think America looked too bad in the cables - we get a glimpse into the pragmatic world of diplomacy and although they have to say something else publicly you can see democratic values and liberal attitudes behind the scenes.
But to be honest: The published only a small percentage yet. At the beginning I did not find anything interesting at all as it was only about Iran and some fun jokes about foreigne politicians. By now you get some real stories (for example that the UK government was not 100% sure that the parents of "Maddie" were not guilty and cooperated with the Portugese authorities to check their possible involvement as well... contrary to the "public story"). I also enjoyed reading about the Betancourt case and how the different French presidents dealt differently with her being a hostage of the FARC... and I am sure there is far more to come.

While Wikileaks claims that they leak your documents when you send them there can I not get out of the impression that they heavily discuss what to leak and what not - or which parts to censor to protect the privacy of some people involved... so I guess that there is still a lot more coming up.
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  #267  
Old 15.12.2010, 12:24
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama (Update: Site now on a Swiss domain)

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While Wikileaks claims that they leak your documents when you send them there can I not get out of the impression that they heavily discuss what to leak and what not - or which parts to censor to protect the privacy of some people involved... so I guess that there is still a lot more coming up.
I don't think Wikileaks makes this claim. There's an acknowledged policy of strategic release. This is part of the reason that half the Wikileaks people departed and set up OpenLeaks.
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  #268  
Old 15.12.2010, 12:36
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama (Update: Site now on a Swiss domain)

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I don't think America looked too bad in the cables - we get a glimpse into the pragmatic world of diplomacy and although they have to say something else publicly you can see democratic values and liberal attitudes behind the scenes.

On the other hand America's response to the leaks has been absolutely appalling: vindictive, kneejerk, trampling on rights, against freedom of speech, inconsistent (why target Assange, but not the New York Times), etc etc.
I appreciate the kind of transparency the leaks bring, and find it necessary in this stage of our history. I believe it should be standardized in US government. The US government should be considered to be an employee of the US taxpayers, and not its tyrant.

I think the most damaging release from Wikileaks has been the strafing of the van with the children in it, and the demolishion of the building as an innocent Iraqi pedestrian happened to walk by. The rest of leaks are minor in comparison.

As for the knee-jerk vindictiveness spewing from some politicians and pundits, I wouldn't call that the response of America. Apart from blabber, the US hasn't actually responded, unless you consider the Swedish affairs to be a US conspiracy.

The response of America can be better gauged with the votes for Time Magazine's Man of the Year. Assange has been voted in by its readers.

Considering that the US is in involved in wars in two countries, and have killed a very large quantity of innocent civilians, the Wikileaks case has to be considered as an issue of conscience. I'd like to see greater support for Wikileaks from Americans. If they can't stand up for basic righteous principles now, then the whole country will get what it deserves - a tyranical government which will oppress its people. It has started to take shape already.
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  #269  
Old 15.12.2010, 12:41
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama (Update: Site now on a Swiss domain)

Best Rickroll ever!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rickrolling
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  #270  
Old 15.12.2010, 12:42
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama (Update: Site now on a Swiss domain)

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On the other hand America's response to the leaks has been absolutely appalling: vindictive, kneejerk, trampling on rights, against freedom of speech, inconsistent (why target Assange, but not the New York Times), etc etc.
Only 1463 cables have been released of the 251,287 they supposedly have. In 18 days they've released 0.6% of the cables. At this rate it will take 8.5 years to release them all!

CNN and a number of other news channels were referring to Assange saying that he personally was releasing classified US documents. They failed to mention that Wikileaks, like most internet based movements, is a collaborative effort by largely anonymous individuals. But it's very hard to attack people you do not know, cannot find, and probably estimate the strength of (especially when you have to factor in other groups like Anonymous joining in for the lulz)

By painting Assange, the public figurehead, as the guy with a personal vendetta against good ol USA, he's instantly disliked by the "Freedom lovin" good ol boys, and it'll be easier to dismiss as baseless attacks on "Freedom" the cables with the juicy stuff. The focus is being put on the person to distract from the content. The content could continue emerging for a long long time, but of course, 24hour news cycles are notoriously ADHD. A few weeks ago, it was the TSA "Enhanced Pat-down" (which, by the way, are disappointingly noninvasive). Before that, it was BP destroying the Mexican Gulf. Now, it's Julian Assange raping 2 Swedish chicks. Next week we'll be back to Police brutality, and then the cycle begins again. Assange will be remembered as a rapist, and little else.

Well, that seems like the plan anyway. Hopefully some juicy stuff will emerge soon enough and put a stop to it.
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  #271  
Old 15.12.2010, 12:53
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama (Update: Site now on a Swiss domain)

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The response of America can be better gauged with the votes for Time Magazine's Man of the Year. Assange has been voted in by its readers.
Show us what percentage of those votes were from Americans, Phos, if you could?

I think you'll find a large number of those votes came from outside the US too. It was a very widely promoted Poll. More telling might be the number of people who voted for Sarah Palin.
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  #272  
Old 15.12.2010, 12:54
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama (Update: Site now on a Swiss domain)

I hope all this does not result in introduction of draconian internet related legislation in Europe and USA.
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  #273  
Old 15.12.2010, 13:10
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama (Update: Site now on a Swiss domain)

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hang on, his bail was set at £240k Moore offered $20k so not really posting his bail is he.
he contributed to it... Jemima Khan stumped up 20k too.
and 20k is no small change, even for Moore.
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  #274  
Old 15.12.2010, 13:15
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama (Update: Site now on a Swiss domain)

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and 20k is no small change, even for Moore.
It is for him. It was approximately his hourly rate for speeches in US universities.
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He supplements his meager income with speaking tours. No more $750 gigs; on his 2004 pre-election tour he charged Utah Valley State College $40,000, Xavier $25,000, and University of New Mexico $35,000. Not bad for an hour or two's work.
http://www.mooreexposed.com/
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  #275  
Old 15.12.2010, 13:24
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama (Update: Site now on a Swiss domain)

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As for the knee-jerk vindictiveness spewing from some politicians and pundits, I wouldn't call that the response of America. Apart from blabber, the US hasn't actually responded, unless you consider the Swedish affairs to be a US conspiracy.
It remains to be seen whether the Swedish stuff is fishy, but it has that smell.

Other actions by the US:

- Pressure on commercial firms to close down methods of paying Wikileaks. There is definitely evidence that the government leaned on PayPal, but we also have to consider the actions of the DNS firm, Mastercard, Amazon etc.

- The US is preparing to indict Assange on espionage charges

- The US has now barred its troops from reading the New York Times etc online
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  #276  
Old 15.12.2010, 13:27
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama (Update: Site now on a Swiss domain)

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- Pressure on commercial firms to close down methods of paying Wikileaks. There is definitely evidence that the government leaned on PayPal, but we also have to consider the actions of the DNS firm, Mastercard, Amazon etc.
I thought Visa had at first publicly announced that they got a letter from the US government informing them that Wikileaks is "illegal"... only later they changed the argument to "breaks our terms and conditions". For the ones who do not see the point: Governments do not decide who is doing something illegal, judges do...
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  #277  
Old 15.12.2010, 13:33
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama (Update: Site now on a Swiss domain)

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- The US has now barred its troops from reading the New York Times etc online
You got to be kidding me!

I hope the UK govt does not extradite him to USA. How would that all work with him being Australian?
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  #278  
Old 15.12.2010, 13:37
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama (Update: Site now on a Swiss domain)

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You got to be kidding me!

I hope the UK govt does not extradite him to USA. How would that all work with him being Australian?
Well, he didn't break the law, according to Wayne Swan, the Deputy PM of Australia
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  #279  
Old 15.12.2010, 13:51
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama (Update: Site now on a Swiss domain)

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I thought Visa had at first publicly announced that they got a letter from the US government informing them that Wikileaks is "illegal"... only later they changed the argument to "breaks our terms and conditions". For the ones who do not see the point: Governments do not decide who is doing something illegal, judges do...
So the correct way to do this would have been to seek an injunction (or whatever the equivalent in US law is), instead they leaned on companies informally.
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Old 15.12.2010, 13:52
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama (Update: Site now on a Swiss domain)

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You got to be kidding me!

I hope the UK govt does not extradite him to USA. How would that all work with him being Australian?
His nationality makes no difference. In formal terms jurisdiction matters, but that comes down to politics.
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