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  #21  
Old 28.11.2010, 23:20
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama

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1) one of the leaks i read is about how turkish banks help Iran finance their nuclear program.

2) it's great if the crisis did not affect your world. But a lot of people lost jobs, homes, and we are all paying the crisis with tax money.
1) Do they have to get involved in everything??

2) I'm aware of the effects the crisis had on many people's life even if I didn't feel the consequences myself (yet).
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  #22  
Old 28.11.2010, 23:26
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama

What's to be revealed about Pakistan's Nuclear weapons?

They have them. They tested them. Isn't that general knowledge?
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  #23  
Old 28.11.2010, 23:42
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama

Most of these are "Confidential" and "Secret". I think Assange and Wikileaks would vanish into thin air before any "Top Secret" leaks could be published.
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  #24  
Old 29.11.2010, 00:39
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama

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Most of these are "Confidential" and "Secret". I think Assange and Wikileaks would vanish into thin air before any "Top Secret" leaks could be published.
As I get older and more cynical, I start to think that everything including this latest leak is somehow orchestrated for some nefarious agenda. Mr Assange and his dedicated volunteers may think they're cocking a snook at the Establishment, but in reality they're probably carrying out its wishes e.g. purging the bloated diplomatic service/ State departments of dead wood, double bluffing their enemies etc..

Everything happens for a reason.
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Old 29.11.2010, 05:15
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama

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The Wikileaks site is still down by DDOS attacks. Makes one wonder which and how many governments are presently bombarding their site now.

source: http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/11/28...?iref=obinsite
I can't imagine any halfway competent* government would bother with a DDoS. That's a very temporary solution (it ends, eventually, when upstream providers are alerted to what's happening and start applying ACLs to block the traffic) and does more to call attention to Wikileaks than anything.

My guess is that it's either some pissed off teens / vigilante-wannabe-patriots or a publicity stunt by Mr. Assange - look, I'm a hero, the man is trying to keep me down but I still published this stuff!

*or even the American government
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Old 29.11.2010, 10:34
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama

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Most of these are "Confidential" and "Secret". I think Assange and Wikileaks would vanish into thin air before any "Top Secret" leaks could be published.
What, things like the menu in the civil servants' canteen?

FWIW, I have seen Top Secret stuff - years ago - and it's fairly humdrum as well. The official secrets act is to protect officials, not secrets. It would save everyone considerable effort, if Top Secret and below were simply distributed directly to our enemies and "friends".
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  #27  
Old 29.11.2010, 10:39
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama

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As I get older and more cynical, I start to think that everything including this latest leak is somehow orchestrated for some nefarious agenda. Mr Assange and his dedicated volunteers may think they're cocking a snook at the Establishment, but in reality they're probably carrying out its wishes e.g. purging the bloated diplomatic service/ State departments of dead wood, double bluffing their enemies etc..

Everything happens for a reason.

Disinformation? Conspiracy?

Over 3 million people had security clearance to this material. A lot of this material has been leaked before, and published. There is likely to be so much disinformation here that it makes the whole batch questionable for anything.
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  #28  
Old 29.11.2010, 10:50
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama

It would be interesting to know how much e.g. Mrs Merkel already knew of the opinion the US state department has of her.
The problem is, of course, democratic (and non-democratic) leaders need to have a good picture of their friends and foes beyond the nice talk around the fireplace every couple of months.
The people who collected and entered the information into the various databases were under the assumption that it would not be published for another 25 years at least.
So, what can the US government do, apart from not collecting this kind of information?

One personal conspiracy theory I have is that all this is a bit of "Jimmy Carter reloaded".
I was far too young at that time, but a couple of years ago I saw a documentary about how the Iranian embassy hostage crisis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis
ended.
It's called the "October surprise":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October...spiracy_theory

I'm sure that a lot of people in the Us (those that don't like the current administration) are quite happy (more or less openly) about the current events.
They make Obama and his administration look like village idiots.

So, I'm sure the stream of leaks will continue for at least two years.

Aside from that, wikileaks may not have re-written history - but they have certainly changed the way historians can work.
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  #29  
Old 29.11.2010, 11:05
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama

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It would be interesting to know how much e.g. Mrs Merkel already knew of the opinion the US state department has of her.
Do you mean how Merkel is described as "risk adverse and uncreative"? That is a common American perception of german cultural characteristics. Just like how Germans perceive Americans as maverick cowboys.





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I'm sure that a lot of people in the Us (those that don't like the current administration) are quite happy (more or less openly) about the current events.
They make Obama and his administration look like village idiots.
Obama did promise transparency. He can't complain now. I wouldn't be surprised if this was his delivery.
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  #30  
Old 29.11.2010, 11:39
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama

I hope there is more drama coming, because what I read in the press so far is hardly surprising:

- Angela Merkel: risk averse and "not very creative" - absolutely
- Guido Westerwelle: egocentric and incompetent in foreign politics - absolutely
- Putin: "alpha male" - absoluetly
- Medwedew: less alpha male than putin - absolutely
- Berlusconi - weak personality in all types of senses - absolutely
...

- Israel, Saudi Arabia and a couple of other Arab kings pushing for a US attack against Iran: Hardly a surprise.
- The US collecting the credit card info of UN diplomats - not exactly surprising either

I am sure there are plenty of VERY interesting stories buried in there... but the papers either did not digg them out yet - or are afraid to publish them.
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Old 29.11.2010, 11:42
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama

Well, I knew Israel wanted the US to bomb Iran. I'm kind of surprised to find out Saudi Arabia and co. wanted that as well. Arabs seem to hate Persians enough to risk potential nuclear war in their backyard.
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  #32  
Old 29.11.2010, 11:46
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama

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What's to be revealed about Pakistan's Nuclear weapons?

They have them. They tested them. Isn't that general knowledge?
In short: A lot.

Given Pakistans situation:
- Tribes and Taleban are able to control large parts of the country
- Taleban are able to carry out several hundreds of attacks on supply routes in the past weeks
- The US can never be sure who in the complex political landscape is really on their side.

So it would be VERY interesting to read an objective account from a US embassador on the country. Some say that they even prefer Iran to have the bomb than Pakistan: In Iran you know who you are dealing with, in Pakistan you can never be sure if the Taleban would manage to get their hands on them weapons.
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  #33  
Old 29.11.2010, 11:51
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama

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In short: A lot.

Given Pakistans situation:
- Tribes and Taleban are able to control large parts of the country
- Taleban are able to carry out several hundreds of attacks on supply routes in the past weeks
- The US can never be sure who in the complex political landscape is really on their side.

So it would be VERY interesting to read an objective account from a US embassador on the country. Some say that they even prefer Iran to have the bomb than Pakistan: In Iran you know who you are dealing with, in Pakistan you can never be sure if the Taleban would manage to get their hands on them weapons.
That's all fine. But the media seem to be implying that Pakistan are developing The Bomb. Where in fact they already have it and there isn't anything anyone can do about it unfortunately.
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  #34  
Old 29.11.2010, 12:01
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama

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That's all fine. But the media seem to be implying that Pakistan are developing The Bomb. Where in fact they already have it and there isn't anything anyone can do about it unfortunately.
Ok, i did not read that one... but the country is surely continuously working on their rocket techology that enables one to actually shoot the bomb somewhere.
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  #35  
Old 29.11.2010, 12:09
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama

The Swedish police still have an arrest warrant for Assange on rape charges no?
Seems like a nice chap.
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  #36  
Old 29.11.2010, 12:35
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama

all this will be mostly for nothing...people are busy holding on to their jobs or looking for them especially in the US....so yeah ok big sensation for a couple of days but it will not do anyone any good. World will continue to function as it does.
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Old 29.11.2010, 14:37
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama

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all this will be mostly for nothing...people are busy holding on to their jobs or looking for them especially in the US....so yeah ok big sensation for a couple of days but it will not do anyone any good. World will continue to function as it does.
Little will change on the obvious surface. But seriously: Those reports were written by thousands of smart, high level diplomats knowing that their information can be open and honest... and they frankly took the freedom to describe things in funny ways (calling Puting and Medwedew "Batman and Robin" and so on...). They never believed this could be published and this does stirr up some stuff, so there are quite some low level consequences to expect. Some examples from the press I read, obviously mainly on Germany:
- Westerwelle for example now knows that the American embassy thinks he is incompetent and that they should ignore him and talk to the chancellor directly instead. If I was him, I would have a chat with the ambassador...
- If I was in the FDP, I would look for the mole that handed over secret documents during the coalition building talks.
- Von Guttenberg will have to have some talk to his coalition partners and ensure that he does in fact like them more than the opposition...

Others might be less surprised by their info, but if I was a president of a country and get insulted in these documents or my views on difficult topics are unmasked by the leak, I would make it clear to the US that if they want good relationships, they better exchange the people in their embassies. In short: The US lost a lot of trust. Both from people who trusted them with information and others who read in the press how they were spied on or how negatively the US representation in their countries think of them.
Thousands of small cases... all of them combined will change the world, but not through single huge headlines.
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  #38  
Old 29.11.2010, 14:59
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama

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Well, I knew Israel wanted the US to bomb Iran. I'm kind of surprised to find out Saudi Arabia and co. wanted that as well. Arabs seem to hate Persians enough to risk potential nuclear war in their backyard.
The oil rich Gulf States have always felt threatened by Iran, hence the reliance on American protection. In recent years however Ahmedinijad has been on a major charm offensive, and in many countries he would easily win a popularity contest against the rulers... which is probably another reason why they are scared.
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  #39  
Old 29.11.2010, 15:11
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama

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Well, I knew Israel wanted the US to bomb Iran. I'm kind of surprised to find out Saudi Arabia and co. wanted that as well. Arabs seem to hate Persians enough to risk potential nuclear war in their backyard.
In the 80's all the arabic gulf countries financed the war of Saddam Hussein against Iran. There is a shi'a minority in the arab gulf countries and in lebanon that are fully synchronized with Iran and represent a threat.
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  #40  
Old 29.11.2010, 15:18
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Re: Wikileaks -OMIFGOD, lots of drama

It is notable that the Arab states seem more interested in what Iran is doing than what Israel and the Palestinians are up too.
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