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  #221  
Old 12.01.2011, 19:42
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

And just to refresh, here are a few political skits from SNL:

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Old 12.01.2011, 19:58
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

The observation about her inability to understand is spot on. She would have been better off stopping after 2 minutes. Hopeless.



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Here's Sarah Palin responding to Gifford's death and the backlash she's receiving. It starts off good but then dwindles down to a SNL (Saturday Night Live) skit. If it weren't so serious, it would almost be amusing.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...ting-aftermath
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  #223  
Old 12.01.2011, 20:24
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

I'll say this, I sure won't be missing US politicians anymore
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  #224  
Old 12.01.2011, 20:25
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

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I'll say this, I sure won't be missing US politicians anymore
Indeed.

Practice makes perfect, and all that.
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  #225  
Old 13.01.2011, 17:03
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

Excellent response from President Obama today:



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If this tragedy prompts reflection and debate -- as it should -- let’s make sure it’s worthy of those we have lost. [Applause.] Let’s make sure it’s not on the usual plane of politics and point-scoring and pettiness that drifts away in the next news cycle.

The loss of these wonderful people should make every one of us strive to be better. To be better in our private lives, to be better friends and neighbors and coworkers and parents. And if, as has been discussed in recent days, their death helps usher in more civility in our public discourse, let us remember it is not because a simple lack of civility caused this tragedy -- it did not -- but rather because only a more civil and honest public discourse can help us face up to the challenges of our nation in a way that would make them proud. [Applause.]
Full text of Obama's remarks here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...hooting-tucson
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  #226  
Old 13.01.2011, 17:07
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

Did you see Sarah Palin's message where she talks about the blood libel?

Oh God! It is like someone in her own team try to put her into trouble!

Last edited by Nil; 13.01.2011 at 21:22.
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  #227  
Old 13.01.2011, 18:55
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

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Excellent response from President Obama today:
Unfortunately, that's all O is apparently capable of - rhetoric
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  #228  
Old 13.01.2011, 20:46
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

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Unfortunately, that's all O is apparently capable of - rhetoric
I disagree. At the very least you must admit that he has the right tone in his rhetoric and is intelligent enough not to read out a speech (about Blood Libel when the democratic leader is Jewish and one of the assassins favourite books is Mein Kampf) from a teleprompter without questioning it. I thank the Jewish members of this forum for educating me with regard to the term Blood libel.

Boehner (pronounced Baynor) was invited to attend the ceremony in Arizona. Obama offered for him to travel on Air Force One. After crying during a televised public congressional address over the shooting Boehner declined the invite; stating that he had a Republican cocktail party to attend.

But the sickest thing for me to watch was Obama kissing Jan Brewer.


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Last April, Brewer signed legislation that removed a requirement that individuals acquire a permit to carry a concealed weapon anywhere that open carry of a firearm is allowed. Anyone 21 years or older and legally allowed to possess a firearm is now able to carry a concealed firearm with no training.
She also signed legislation that exempts guns manufactured in Arizona from federal regulation, provided the firearm in question is made in Arizona, purchased in Arizona, and does not leave Arizona. The practical effect of this law is less than the concealed-carry law, due to the lack of manufacturers in the state, but critics of the law claim it opens a loophole custom-made for abuse by criminals.
Then then there is this:

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A South Carolina gun company is “honoring” Joe Wilson by having the congressman’s phrase “you lie” — the one he shouted at President Obama during a State of the Union Address — etched into components of an Assault Rifle. “Palmetto State Armory would like to honor our esteemed congressman Joe Wilson with the release of our new ‘You Lie’ AR-15 lower receiver,” reads a portion of the company’s website.
http://republicanifi.com/news/Rep-Jo...t-1533823.html
I mean, if there is anything that would make me high-tail it back to Switzerland it is this kind of thing. Luckily most of the people (that Tea Party Sherriff excluded) here in upstate NY are just so nice.
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  #229  
Old 13.01.2011, 21:18
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

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I disagree. At the very least you must admit that he has the right tone in his rhetoric and is intelligent enough not to read out a speech (about Blood Libel when the democratic leader is Jewish and one of the assassins favourite books is Mein Kampf) from a teleprompter without questioning it. I thank the Jewish members of this forum for educating me with regard to the term Blood libel.
Let's not even begin a discussion on Obama by comparing him to Palin...Palin is, well, a joke...Obama at least is a credible politician, albeit a corporate stooge, IMO

I've never been prone to getting on a media bandwagon for a candidate, particularly one as eloquent a speaker as Obama...He intrigued me from even during his Chicago days, ahead of his infamous Convention speech prior to running for President...I read two of his books and followed him pretty closely during the run up to his election.

However, chinks in his armour were getting exposed for me and more & more I feared he was more fluff than substance...When he flipped and pulled a 180 on FISA, I was done with Obama in June - ahead of the November election...At that point, I knew he was merely a polished rep for corporate America to brand as a Democrat (Terms which increasingly mean less & less in political America, IMO)

Nothing that has happened in office since has changed that opinion, if anything his reputation has dwindled even more.

He's great, of course, for a nice soundbite or speech but running the world's strongest superpower?...Not close, unfortunately...Until the political system learns to unhinge it's feedbag from corporations, there's precious little hope for real change in America
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  #230  
Old 14.01.2011, 00:34
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

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At that point, I knew he was merely a polished rep for corporate America to brand as a Democrat (Terms which increasingly mean less & less in political America, IMO)

Nothing that has happened in office since has changed that opinion, if anything his reputation has dwindled even more.

He's great, of course, for a nice soundbite or speech but running the world's strongest superpower?...Not close, unfortunately...Until the political system learns to unhinge it's feedbag from corporations, there's precious little hope for real change in America

This is America, Corporate America, you can't take the corporation out,that would be more devastating that getting rid of the banks. So you just have to work with them, let them have the upper hand a little, at least until the the second term when hopefully we are climbing out of the economic doldrums and unemployment
I accepted that America is corporation world when I moved here, but which country isn't?

There isn't a Presidnet on the history of the US ( well unless you go back to the civil war) that has more problems on his hands, has more obstacles thrown in his path,more blocks on any changes, more death threats, more questions about his identity and right to the office of presidency.

Last edited by hoppy; 14.01.2011 at 00:39. Reason: addition.
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  #231  
Old 14.01.2011, 06:35
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

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Unfortunately, that's all O is apparently capable of - rhetoric
I'm not the guy's biggest fan either - but wouldn't you agree that in this situation, 'rhetoric' is precisely what's called for? A presidential response was needed and he hit exactly the right note for it: I don't see how anyone could have done more than that.

This is not about him, any more than it is about Mrs. Palin.
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  #232  
Old 14.01.2011, 10:08
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

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This is America, Corporate America, you can't take the corporation out,that would be more devastating that getting rid of the banks. So you just have to work with them, let them have the upper hand a little, at least until the the second term when hopefully we are climbing out of the economic doldrums and unemployment
As long as politicians continue to pamper the the wealthiest sector of America, it won't be long before a Third World America takes firm root nevermind a climbing out of the doldrums


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There isn't a Presidnet on the history of the US ( well unless you go back to the civil war) that has more problems on his hands, has more obstacles thrown in his path,more blocks on any changes, more death threats, more questions about his identity and right to the office of presidency.
Obama might as well have pulled a Bush Sr. trick and told all of us to 'Read his lips' because he's been far less truthful let alone honorable in the gap between the rhetoric of what he'd do and what he actually has/hasn't done

All of this just smells the same, regardless of party - spin...Being an apologist for politicians has become a pastime in America much like rooting for your favorite professional sports team
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  #233  
Old 14.01.2011, 10:14
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

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I'm not the guy's biggest fan either - but wouldn't you agree that in this situation, 'rhetoric' is precisely what's called for? A presidential response was needed and he hit exactly the right note for it: I don't see how anyone could have done more than that.

This is not about him, any more than it is about Mrs. Palin.
Problem is, in all the time he's been in the view of the public eye, his best attribute has been speeches...His lack of inertia in policy making much less integrity on going forward with what he said he'd do makes him no more than a glorified cheerleader

Want something Presidential?...How about sweeping commitment to gun control?...How about restoring some confidence in rebuilding America rather than perpetuating not one but two wars?...How about instead of bailing out the wealthiest sector of America, he focused on the bulk of Americans that actually make America run?

Sorry but a camera op speech after a tragedy that involved disgruntled albeit mentally unstable lunatics directed at elected officials is no way to stem the tide of what's happening in the US
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  #234  
Old 14.01.2011, 10:26
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

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Want something Presidential?...How about sweeping commitment to gun control?...How about restoring some confidence in rebuilding America rather than perpetuating not one but two wars?...How about instead of bailing out the wealthiest sector of America, he focused on the bulk of Americans that actually make America run?

Sorry but a camera op speech after a tragedy that involved disgruntled albeit mentally unstable lunatics directed at elected officials is no way to stem the tide of what's happening in the US
So you'd rather he hadn't given the speech then?

You seem to be focusing on his strengths and shortcomings as head of government. The President is also head of state, and one of his main jobs in that capacity is to make appropriate speeches in times of national crisis. He did a bang-up job Wednesday night and I give him full marks for that. His performance on other issues is really a topic for another thread.
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  #235  
Old 14.01.2011, 10:49
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

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All of this just smells the same, regardless of party - spin...Being an apologist for politicians has become a pastime in America much like rooting for your favorite professional sports team
Do you honestly believe that a Republican administration, heavily influenced by the Tea Party, would not be quite different (and in my opinion much worse)?

The Presidency will always be about pragmatism and compromise, especially in the first term. In addition, Obama had a huge plate load of Bush's problems to deal with, when he took office.

Yes, the health reforms aren't everything that progressive Democrats wanted, but they're more far reaching than anything since Medicare. The repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' is also a huge achievement. These reforms have been achieved in the face of a GOP that although disunited and marginalised has responded with extremity and lies (Obamacare death panels etc).

If you give up and take up the politics of grievance, you are playing the Tea Party's game.
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  #236  
Old 14.01.2011, 11:18
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110114/...resswoman_shot

The little girl was buried. Her classmates are confused. Her parents are emotional. Her state is grieving and somber. Her congresswoman is straining to return.

Perhaps it is because I spent many years in Arizona that this event has shaken me to a point where political nonsense seems more irrelevant than it often is.

As a human, as a father, as a person with an Arizona driver's license in his wallet, I don't understand why reverence was/is not the immediate reaction, and bickering resumed. Perhaps we all have additions to the Kubler-Ross stages.

Jon Stewart's somber monologue on Monday's "Daily Show" gave a raw and pointed appeal to Americans' devastation and also hope. It is a good sign, he said, that events like this still bring some pause to a nation.

But perhaps not enough.
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  #237  
Old 14.01.2011, 16:03
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

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Do you honestly believe that a Republican administration, heavily influenced by the Tea Party, would not be quite different (and in my opinion much worse)?
You're back to a favorite American pastime, partisan talk...I've given up on the Democratic, Republican etc. distinctions...Different side, same coin

There was a time I identified with being a democrat but that was long ago, before it became obvious they weren't much different than the other guys


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The Presidency will always be about pragmatism and compromise, especially in the first term. In addition, Obama had a huge plate load of Bush's problems to deal with, when he took office.
This still qualifies as spin, btw...Who says what's pragmatic?...Isn't the job of representatives to represent the constituents' interests?...Shouldn't the president at the very least do what he said he'd do?...What about politicians actually focusing on the middle class instead of bailing out the wealthiest and most bloated companies in America?...Did it really require massive bailouts of the auto industry to 'finally get it' that they can't continue to just build Hummers and massive autos in an increasingly green world?...O was elected in 2008, it's now 2011...Did either war end?...Is Guantanamo Bay closed?...Are we know hunting down a whistleblower like Assange?...Majority of our budgets are directed at sectors that need the least amount of help, atm, while sectors that have desperately needed it are being swept under the proverbial rug


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Yes, the health reforms aren't everything that progressive Democrats wanted, but they're more far reaching than anything since Medicare. The repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' is also a huge achievement. These reforms have been achieved in the face of a GOP that although disunited and marginalised has responded with extremity and lies (Obamacare death panels etc).
Healthcare reform requires more than just insuring it's available for more people but that the system works properly in the first place...Supposedly O's initial plan centered around models like the Suisse one as well as Kaiser but we're a long ways from that...The military issue with gays & lesbians is long overdue but it is a tepid political accomplishment considering what has been at O's doorstep since taking office

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If you give up and take up the politics of grievance, you are playing the Tea Party's game.
I've given up on US politics but I am not aggrieved...All this hype about change has never even come close to coming about and the Tea Party is hardly a solution either...Problem is that the political apparatus is so rife with corruption & bogged down by lobbyists and special interests that the represented are in fact the least represented
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  #238  
Old 14.01.2011, 16:05
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

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So you'd rather he hadn't given the speech then?

You seem to be focusing on his strengths and shortcomings as head of government. The President is also head of state, and one of his main jobs in that capacity is to make appropriate speeches in times of national crisis. He did a bang-up job Wednesday night and I give him full marks for that. His performance on other issues is really a topic for another thread.
I'm not saying the speech wasn't a strong one but then again I've always agreed that he's a great speaker...My point is, so what?...That has accomplished precious little since becoming President

Let's put it this way, I'd feel much better about an O run US if he weren't blessed with the Nobel Prize before doing anything worthy of receiving such a distinction...Seems everyone is far too eager to praise him before he's actually done much...Like I said, he seems likable enough but I'm far more interested in what you do than what you say
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  #239  
Old 14.01.2011, 16:20
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

do you not see the irony in your posts? Your ranting about politics and how bad the president is either side of the post about the little girl being buried.
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Old 14.01.2011, 17:21
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

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As long as politicians continue to pamper the the wealthiest sector of America, it won't be long before a Third World America takes firm root nevermind a climbing out of the doldrums




Obama might as well have pulled a Bush Sr. trick and told all of us to 'Read his lips' because he's been far less truthful let alone honorable in the gap between the rhetoric of what he'd do and what he actually has/hasn't done

All of this just smells the same, regardless of party - spin...Being an apologist for politicians has become a pastime in America much like rooting for your favorite professional sports team
There has always been a ' third world' in America. It's not new, but so much has improved and continues to improve under this presidency. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water. Certainly corruption is endemic in Washington has been for centuries and govt. keeps expanding with the population growth, so it's getting bigger and bigger. It is difficult to root it out.


Do I think that the tea party will make the Republican Party worse- Yes! So do many Republicans, civil discourse is just impossible. I sat with a Republican McCain supporter lawyer yesterday and we both agreed, he was really disappointed that Obama cancelled his visit and couldn't wait for him to reschedule and to get to meet him again. He said that he was a little disappointed in McCain as of late and I agreed, but I also stated that at least McCain is not spouting this vitriolic rhetoric to which he fervently agreed- couldn't stand the Tea Party.

I have many Republican friends and sorry to say, but the educated ones are so embarrassed by the Tea Partiers. Idealistically I am a Tony Benn person, but this is America land of great corporations who, on balance have brought prosperity and wonderful people. I still love the US and all its diversity. I continue to fight to bring it back to the left and others will fight to bring it back to the right, the extremists should remain extremists.

At the polling station I was working alongside some tea partiers I couldn't stand the unprofessional way they were behaving. I thought that I might have to report it as it could upset voters. Then a Republican Councilor a friend of mine turned up, he stayed to watch what was going on, and it immediately became apparent to them that he would not stand for it, he is a really nice guy.

Can we all get along- of course, we have to tolerate different opinions. Nancy Pelosi was at Gifford's bedside having girly chat when Gifford opened her eyes, apparently they -Gillibrand and the Florida woman ( sorry I forget her name) are all old friends, even though Pelosi knows that Gifford did not back her in the Congress vote!
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