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  #81  
Old 09.01.2011, 21:21
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

My brother in law is an avid hunter, and he is scrupulous about his guns and gun safety. My 12 year old nephew hunts under supervision and I have a good friend who is a collector. But no one that I know hunts with a semi automatic weapon. Or even uses one around the old homestead.

And yes guns and politics don't mix. The democratic map is not appropriate although target images are used widely (e.g., the store Target). But Palin's map goes a step further by depicting a sight that fits in a gun.

Either way I think we use symbols and metaphors that are too oriented toward violence and too black and white - too extreme. Maybe that fuels bipartisan failure to some extent.

Last edited by edot; 10.01.2011 at 07:42.
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  #82  
Old 10.01.2011, 00:05
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

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2. Can someone explain what is wrong with basic psychiatric exams for gun ownership?
I suspect they'd be easily circumvented, e.g. by getting someone else to buy the gun for you.
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  #83  
Old 10.01.2011, 00:05
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

She appears to have been shot from the back.

Reuters

Quote:
Giffords, a 40-year-old Democratic lawmaker, did not have severe bleeding in the brain nor large sections of devitalized brain tissue, Lemole said.

But doctors insisted it was nevertheless a brutal injury.

"This wasn't a little grazing wound to the brain. This was a devastating wound that traveled the entire length of the brain on the left side," said Dr. Peter Rhee, trauma medical director at UMC.

The bullet appeared to have entered the back of the head and exited above Giffords' eyebrow, he added.
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  #84  
Old 10.01.2011, 00:19
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

In this thread, most criticism has been of the gun references in recent Republican campaign marketing.

Lunatics are lunatics, but as someone on this thread already mentioned, they will latch on to other themes. The political background, which has gained lurid currency in recent years through programmes like Glenn Beck's, is one of extreme distrust of the government. The typical tropes which came out in the alleged killers YouTube were currency and the gold standard, the US Constitution and government mind control. You'll hear all of that from people like Alex Jones. Some people have been surprised when I've criticised this kind of political paranoia as corrosive.

It's no good saying that people realise the shock jocks aren't serious and that it's just a game. Well some people do believe it and suddenly Tea Partiers get voted in, an atmosphere of bigotry thrives and people get shot.

The reason that a deranged person took this tragic direction was due to this dramatic right-wing paranoid narrative. And the reason he was so dangerous is that guns are legal in the US.

The Republican leadership has a duty to try and rein in this crap and restore some dignity and polity to conservative rhetoric.
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  #85  
Old 10.01.2011, 00:22
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

I have been following the coverage on a variety of websites, and do believe the shooter bears ultimate responsibility. Whether he was mentally ill or sympathetic to some right wing group will be debated and litigated for some time.

However, it can't be denied that there is a dark cloud over America (and elsewhere around the world) that contributes to the current state of affairs, and it's called intolerance. Case in point.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_806319.html

Just an incredibly sad story. I hope that somehow lessons will really be learned, not just more rhetoric until the next news or election cycle takes our attention elsewhere.
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Old 10.01.2011, 00:32
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

An interesting post about Palin's FB comment management.

http://obamalondon.blogspot.com/2011...ah-palins.html
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Old 10.01.2011, 00:48
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

Has anyone not heard the Eddie Izzard lline- .
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  #88  
Old 10.01.2011, 02:23
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

The shooter has been charged with attempted assasination, among other charges:

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Federal prosecutors charged Jared Loughner with trying to assassinate Gabrielle Giffords, 40, and killing two other government officials.

Mr Loughner, who is due to appear in court, could face the death penalty.
BBC
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  #89  
Old 10.01.2011, 07:57
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

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I have been following the coverage on a variety of websites, and do believe the shooter bears ultimate responsibility.
Yeah. Just like all the suicide bombers are personally responsible for what they are doing...
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Old 10.01.2011, 08:33
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

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I have been following the coverage on a variety of websites, and do believe the shooter bears ultimate responsibility. Whether he was mentally ill or sympathetic to some right wing group will be debated and litigated for some time.

However, it can't be denied that there is a dark cloud over America (and elsewhere around the world) that contributes to the current state of affairs, and it's called intolerance. Case in point.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_806319.html

Just an incredibly sad story. I hope that somehow lessons will really be learned, not just more rhetoric until the next news or election cycle takes our attention elsewhere.

groups like this pray on tragic events to get publicity for their very sick message and ideas. they have been around for a while and have always jumped on the spotlight for their horribly violent and deeply insensitive and offensive words. although i agree that there is a huge problem with intolerance, especially in the az area, i would stress that groups such as this are not, thankfully, as common as people think, though they are truly good for media and grabbing the attention of people. they are a necessary evil to the freedom of speech, i know and freaks like that, as much as they really bother me with their cruelty, aggressive messages and abusive language are as protected as anyone else to say what they wish, but i have to say to see the children in the throes of this all with their billboards and hateful messages seems a bit close to brainwashing and abuse to me, it is very bothering.
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Old 10.01.2011, 08:36
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

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To be fair, the Democratics used a target map during the Bush days.
"Those states should be ripe targets for Democrats."
You canNOT shoot states. You can shoot individuals (see the Palin map)
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  #92  
Old 10.01.2011, 16:57
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

I won't be seeing President Obama- he cancelled his visit, but I think he made the right decision. I don't want the three NRA (pretty sure one was the Tea Party Sheriiff that threatened me) getting any 2'nd amendment Palin-type 'don't retreat, reload!' ideas.

OK Moment of silence for me coming up!
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Old 10.01.2011, 16:59
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011...-phone-message


"Loughner held a years-long grudge against Giffords and had repeatedly derided her as a "fake." Loughner's animus toward Giffords intensified after he attended one of her campaign events and she did not, in his view, sufficiently answer a question he had posed..."

"police searching a safe in Loughner's home found a letter from Giffords' office thanking the alleged shooter for attending a August 30, 2007, event."

Apparently he was obsessed with the congresswoman since pre-Palin days. This guy sounds like he was unstable and sadly never got the help he needed.
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  #94  
Old 10.01.2011, 17:31
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

I read that the shooter lived at home with his parents- they never noticed anything untoward?
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Old 10.01.2011, 19:54
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

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An interesting post about Palin's FB comment management.

http://obamalondon.blogspot.com/2011...ah-palins.html
Gastronome, what an incredible indictment - I hope others take the time to read your link. Just incredible- sick.
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Old 10.01.2011, 20:44
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

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Gastronome, what an incredible indictment - I hope others take the time to read your link. Just incredible- sick.
I did this morning, pretty ugly!
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Old 10.01.2011, 21:06
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

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Gastronome, what an incredible indictment - I hope others take the time to read your link. Just incredible- sick.
I'll bite, though I'll probably regret it in the morning...

Why is this sick? Did I miss something beyond the fact that her team deletes critical facebook postings? What else would you expect? If I was a person whose career depended on my reputation, I'd certainly edit all the negative posts too. It's not even a free speech issue - you have the right to voice your opinion, but not on my private turf. So what's the problem?

I know y'all love to hate on elephants, in particular Alaskan elephants, but I have to be missing something if you're going to call "deleting negative PR" "sick".

Edit: Ok, I reread and pushed through the post-dinner beers, and I see that your point is which comments they didn't delete. Yes, if that's intention then that's in incredibly poor taste; but come on, even Palin isn't dumb enough to leave those kinds of comments intentionally!
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Old 10.01.2011, 21:12
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

Post deleted as your edit 'crossed' - glad you understand now.
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Old 10.01.2011, 21:22
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

I'm eagerly looking forward to seeing the sale of t-shirts bearing the image of that poor little girl sometime in the next few days, courtesy of manipulative and cynical genuinely horrified and concerned representatives of the American left.

I'd buy one. Wouldn't you?

By the way, can anyone confirm if the rumours that Sarah Palin was responsible for the Holocaust, the Black Death and the Fall of Man are true or not? I was planning a trip to Alaska, see, and I wouldn't want to bump into her if she's as bad as they say...
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Old 10.01.2011, 21:24
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Re: Gabrielle Giffords, US politician, shot in the head

OMG - DB you've spent too much time in the US-
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