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  #381  
Old 25.01.2011, 18:54
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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So interesting to see how times have changed over the last few decades where some of the irreligious seem to be the pious and sanctimonius ones.

I can't help but think that some people who have dropped their beliefs of a creator or a religious institution (rather than being born and raised without them) are somehow over-compensating to feel less guillt (or whatever you want to call it).
As the great Homer Simpson once said, "If God had wanted me to go to church, he would have made the week an hour longer."
I don't think it's particularly sanctimonious to oppose bigotry.
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  #382  
Old 25.01.2011, 19:33
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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I don't think it's particularly sanctimonious to oppose bigotry.
Okay but you're setting up a straw man if you single out Catholicism for having, in your eyes, bigotted views. This thread is about the Catholic church and the last pope. Your criticism of the Catholic church here can be pointed at most organised religions.
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  #383  
Old 25.01.2011, 22:09
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Okay but you're setting up a straw man if you single out Catholicism for having, in your eyes, bigotted views. This thread is about the Catholic church and the last pope. Your criticism of the Catholic church here can be pointed at most organised religions.
That isn't a straw man. Just saying.
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  #384  
Old 25.01.2011, 22:19
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

Here's a straw man for you, though:



Any virgins on the thread want to volunteer to host a barbecue tonight?

Higgybaby?

Daboy?

Anyone?
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  #385  
Old 25.01.2011, 22:49
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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Here's a straw man for you, though:



Any virgins on the thread want to volunteer to host a burns night tonight?
fixed that for you...

Slànthe!
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  #386  
Old 25.01.2011, 23:49
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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Here's a straw man for you, though:



Any virgins on the thread want to volunteer to host a barbecue tonight?

Higgybaby?

Daboy?

Anyone?
Everyone was a virgin up to some point in their lives.
I guess you were too DB with your schoolboy fixation on anal sex.....before you got married and converted of course.
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  #387  
Old 25.01.2011, 23:52
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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Everyone was a virgin up to some point in their lives.
But you haven't been one for a very long time, presumably?

Tell me, Higgybaby... are you married?

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fixation on anal sex.....
Huh? Do I look like a Roman Catholic priest to you?
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  #388  
Old 26.01.2011, 02:10
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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Okay but you're setting up a straw man if you single out Catholicism for having, in your eyes, bigotted views. This thread is about the Catholic church and the last pope. Your criticism of the Catholic church here can be pointed at most organised religions.
I don't think I set up any straw man.

Someone else (Carlos R) said that Catholicism was about tolerance. I don't think that's true and I've given an counter-example to show why that isn't true.

Yes, this thread was originally about the last Pope but the discussion has moved on somewhat since then.

Just because this criticism can be pointed against many organised religions, that does not mean it is an invalid point to make against Carlos' claim.

Do you actually know the meaning of 'straw man'?
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  #389  
Old 26.01.2011, 02:13
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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Your criticism of the Catholic church here can be pointed at most organised religions.
This is really a very very weak point.

Because criticism can be levelled elsewhere it doesn't pertain here?
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  #390  
Old 26.01.2011, 02:18
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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in your eyes, bigotted views
I don't think it's really a question of my own personal opinion.

Do you think homosexuals should be treated differently? Do you think their behaviour is sinful?
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  #391  
Old 26.01.2011, 10:09
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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Do you think homosexuals should be treated differently? Do you think their behaviour is sinful?
May I?

It is not because your church believe in something that you have to believe it too... Actually, it would be silly and pretty dumb to believe every single words said by a church without digesting it with your own brain. I believe that everyone here who may be a believer will agree with me on this.

Did you see the British show named ''Amish: World's Squarest Teenagers'' on Channel 4? That is an extreme exemple of someone believing by and only by the book. But, can we blame them?

It is a pretty exceptional and extreme situation along believers in general.
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  #392  
Old 26.01.2011, 11:09
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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May I?

It is not because your church believe in something that you have to believe it too... Actually, it would be silly and pretty dumb to believe every single words said by a church without digesting it with your own brain. I believe that everyone here who may be a believer will agree with me on this.
So, because not all Catholics will believe that homosexuals will burn in hell it's ok for the church to carry on saying it?
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  #393  
Old 26.01.2011, 12:04
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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...We were arguing about whether Roman Catholicism promoted tolerance. If it says that the acts of a certain group in society are sinful it's clearly not. In fact, many Catholics go further than this and say that homosexuality is a threat to family life. The Roman Catholic church also has a terrible history of the way it treated unmarried mothers.

It's really not enough to enough to say "well I suppose others can do as they like" while still being told by your priest that those others will be going to hell. And how does it make those growing up in the Catholic Church feel if they have 'sinful' feelings?
AFAIK, the RC Church doesn't stop RCs from associating with any group, whatever their orientation, social position or own beliefs.

That to me is tolerance.

However, being RC is different. As a simple analogy, if you want to be a member of the club, you have to adhere to their rules.

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No. It just means that the Roman Catholic church has some terrible parts to it and you should press for reform from within your institution. If there is no sign of reform, you should consider why you want to be identified with such an organisation and what conclusions people might draw from that.


And you think that people/groups aren't doing this within the RC Church on this and many other topics?

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So, because not all Catholics will believe that homosexuals will burn in hell it's ok for the church to carry on saying it?
Yes. Until there is a change in official policy, then the RC Chuch is allowed to say what it believes in and what it will promote. I realise that this is very hurtful for people who don't match what the RC Church "promotes" as the way we should live our lives, but that's the hard truth of it.

HTH
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  #394  
Old 26.01.2011, 12:39
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So, because not all Catholics will believe that homosexuals will burn in hell it's ok for the church to carry on saying it?
If you can decide which portions of a religion to believe in you would need some kind of criteria with which to make those decisions. And where does that criteria come from? What makes it a valid decision to select what to believe from the menu, ala carte? And then what makes the official church position invalid?

In some ways it's less alarming when someone follows the dogma 100% because at least that's internally consistent, even if it's ultimately irrational either way. It is more logical for a catholic to follow the religion 100%
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Old 26.01.2011, 12:59
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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If you can decide which portions of a religion to believe in you would need some kind of criteria with which to make those decisions. And where does that criteria come from? What makes it a valid decision to select what to believe from the menu, ala carte? And then what makes the official church position invalid?
In my case, my criteria for challenging my RC beliefs comes from my own thinking/experiences. Just as for you, you have your set of beliefs based on your thinking/experiences.

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In some ways it's less alarming when someone follows the dogma 100% because at least that's internally consistent, even if it's ultimately irrational either way. It is more logical for a catholic to follow the religion 100%
On paper, maybe, yes. IRL no.
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  #396  
Old 26.01.2011, 13:10
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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In some ways it's less alarming when someone follows the dogma 100% because at least that's internally consistent
Since when?
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  #397  
Old 26.01.2011, 13:31
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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However, being RC is different. As a simple analogy, if you want to be a member of the club, you have to adhere to their rules.
Would it be acceptable if the RC Church only allowed white people to join? Not really. Same thing with homosexuality . . . It's not a lifestyle choice, it's who someone is.

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Until there is a change in official policy, then the RC Chuch is allowed to say what it believes in and what it will promote.
This doesn't make sense. Who decides the policy? The church. Who promotes the policy? The church.

It is not particularly tolerant to 'allow' others to express their sexuality while simultaneously describing their activity as sinful. This causes enormous problems for homosexuals who grow up within a Catholic tradition.

If you can see tolerance in this then you have a very different idea of it than I do. That says a lot in itself.

You seem to have resorted to a position of 'well, that's tough' and being unwilling to defend the position of the church. And yet, part of the discussion was about thinking for yourself. Pah.
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  #398  
Old 26.01.2011, 13:33
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Since when?
It's consistent. Proper catholics accept the narrative and where that power comes from. One can't logically question the dogma without destroying the basis for belief in the first place. On the issue of gender equality or gay rights, you can't disagree with the church just because it seems wrong. Who are you to question God (working through the pope)? So they are at least logical, starting on the assumption that it has a credible foundation, and everything from that point is logical as well. Atleast you know where you stand. They don't just make stuff up willy nilly, and thereby negate that initial premise/assumption.

So as a catholic you can either be an internally consistent, deluded bigot, or else an inconsistent weirdo who has essentially invented his/her own religion (they arent really catholic anymore).
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Old 26.01.2011, 13:34
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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So as a catholic you can either be an internally consistent, deluded bigot, or else an inconsistent weirdo who has essentially invented his/her own religion (they arent really catholic anymore).
Protestant, you mean?
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Old 26.01.2011, 13:39
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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So as a catholic you can either be an internally consistent, deluded bigot, or else an inconsistent weirdo who has essentially invented his/her own religion (they arent really catholic anymore).
Ah, there's the old daboy back again, who can't make a post without an insult.
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