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  #401  
Old 26.01.2011, 12:43
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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Ah, there's the old daboy back again, who can't make a post without an insult.


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  #402  
Old 26.01.2011, 12:50
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Protestant, you mean?
Exactly. Was trying not to make the insult to protestantism too overt. Hehe. But really the catholics/orthodox christians are protestants vis a vie judaism, and them to all kinds of pagan religions, while still keeping the important bits.

If i were religious i would choose the hawaiian myths. Those gods were badass. I really don't understand why people would choose christianity. The greek and roman gods were much cooler. Jesus is a bit of a pansy.
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Old 26.01.2011, 12:52
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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The greek and roman gods were much cooler. Jesus is a bit of a pansy.
Yeah, but they lost, and He didn't.
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  #404  
Old 26.01.2011, 12:56
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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Yeah, but they lost, and He didn't.
He's lost now, he just hasn't left the pitch.
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  #405  
Old 26.01.2011, 12:57
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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He's lost now, he just hasn't left the pitch.
You reckon?

About a billion followers from Brazil to Botswana, from Archangelsk to Alabama, from Hong Kong to Harrogate would beg to differ.
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  #406  
Old 26.01.2011, 12:59
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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So, because not all Catholics will believe that homosexuals will burn in hell it's ok for the church to carry on saying it?
In which part of what I said did you read this?
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Old 26.01.2011, 13:16
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Yeah, but they lost, and He didn't.
Curious way to frame it, as a game where current favourite is therefore the best. Do you mean only christianity has won, or do you include all three abrahamic religions? So you are calling everyone else a loser?

I should add that it's quite a sad attitude to adopt, especially since, for example, christianity WON in those places you reference by enabling europeans to decimate indigenous people, killing both them and theit cultures. The white man's burden. In the case of hawaii there are almost no indigenous people left. So grats on your victory i guess.
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Old 26.01.2011, 13:25
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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You reckon?

About a billion followers from Brazil to Botswana, from Archangelsk to Alabama, from Hong Kong to Harrogate would beg to differ.
A lot of people still use Windows computers too.
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  #409  
Old 26.01.2011, 13:28
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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In which part of what I said did you read this?
You said that regardless as what the church said people would still make their own decisions. Hence, in some sense it matters less what the church says.
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Old 26.01.2011, 14:05
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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You said that regardless as what the church said people would still make their own decisions. Hence, in some sense it matters less what the church says.
You see too much into it. I am not defending the church (Hell No!) But I am not going to say more because what ever I am going to say will be turn against me, or take out of context, yada yada!
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Old 26.01.2011, 15:27
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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enabling europeans to decimate indigenous people, killing both them and theit cultures. The white man's burden. In the case of hawaii there are almost no indigenous people left.
You say all that like it's a bad thing.
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  #412  
Old 26.01.2011, 15:35
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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Would it be acceptable if the RC Church only allowed white people to join? Not really. Same thing with homosexuality . . . It's not a lifestyle choice, it's who someone is.

This doesn't make sense. Who decides the policy? The church. Who promotes the policy? The church.

It is not particularly tolerant to 'allow' others to express their sexuality while simultaneously describing their activity as sinful. This causes enormous problems for homosexuals who grow up within a Catholic tradition.

If you can see tolerance in this then you have a very different idea of it than I do. That says a lot in itself.

You seem to have resorted to a position of 'well, that's tough' and being unwilling to defend the position of the church. And yet, part of the discussion was about thinking for yourself. Pah.
I’ll see your “Pah” and raise you a “Meh”.

I don’t see what the problem is with saying “that’s the way it is”, because with regards to RC beliefs, that is the way it is until there’s a Papal edict/or other changing “the way it is” to something else.

As I’ve mentioned, there are constant discussions both within the Communion and with groups outside of the RC Church to elaborate and seek common ground, in the hope of resolving conflicts like the ones you’ve highlighted. But don’t expect a quick or revolutionary change.

The RC Church is not in a popularity contest and is not a democratic group. What exactly do you expect? Priests to stand up and say in front of their congregations “Don’t worry what the chap in the white hat is saying…”. Get real, they’ll tow the party line, as is their duty. If you want alternative views, e.g. about whether God exists, whether you need to believe in Jesus and others, join the CofE. <I kid! I kid!>

Until further notice, the RC Church will continue to preach its values as it sees them. You don’t have to be a Christian, Jew, Muslim or whatever. If you believe that you should be, you find a way to accept the good with the bad of whatever faith or denomination you want to belong to. There’s lots of examples of situations where you have to accept the good with the bad, or make compromises. Take capitalism, lots of people don’t like the system, in affects them enormously - one might say much more than religious beliefs - but get on with their lives.
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  #413  
Old 26.01.2011, 16:02
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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If the Roman Catholic church is all about understanding and tolerance, why are homosexual acts still considered sinful?
Checkout The Moral Maze radio programme on BBC Radio 4 tonight (Wednesday) at 9pm.
It's a discussion / debate programme and this week's topic is based around the case in the news in Britain of a Christian (not Catholic) couple who run a Bed and Breakfast who turned away a gay couple from staying at their place.
Might be interesting listening to the case between religious views and human rights.
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Old 26.01.2011, 17:08
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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Checkout The Moral Maze radio programme on BBC Radio 4 tonight (Wednesday) at 9pm.
It's a discussion / debate programme and this week's topic is based around the case in the news in Britain of a Christian (not Catholic) couple who run a Bed and Breakfast who turned away a gay couple from staying at their place.
Might be interesting listening to the case between religious views and human rights.
I heard the trailer for that this morning and immediately thought, 'similar issue'.

It's not really a maze, rather that some people are wearing blinkers.
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Old 26.01.2011, 17:11
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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It's not really a maze, rather that some people are wearing blinkers.
Unfortunately, each side thinks that about the other... and always has!

So it goes. There are small minded people who are unwilling to consider the perspective of other people from other cultures and belief systems everywhere, Christians and non-Christians alike.

None of us is as rational as some of us would like to think we are.
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Old 26.01.2011, 17:22
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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Unfortunately, each side thinks that about the other... and always has!

So it goes. There are small minded people who are unwilling to consider the perspective of other people from other cultures and belief systems everywhere, Christians and non-Christians alike.

None of us is as rational as some of us would like to think we are.
Here's the difference:

No atheists are barring Christians from B&Bs.

I'm not arguing against Christian belief per se, I'm arguing against their prejudiced actions.

As the saying goes, you can tolerate everything except intolerance.
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Old 26.01.2011, 17:30
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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Here's the difference:

No atheists are barring Christians from B&Bs.
No... but plenty of atheists have had Christians tortured, shot and otherwise persecuted for their beliefs.

Like I said, there are blinkered, intolerant people on both sides of the argument.
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  #418  
Old 26.01.2011, 17:38
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No... but plenty of atheists have had Christians tortured, shot and otherwise persecuted for their beliefs.

Like I said, there are blinkered, intolerant people on both sides of the argument.
The difference is that atheism is incidental to their actions, whereas the other side is religiously motivated. Are you for real?

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  #419  
Old 26.01.2011, 18:11
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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No... but plenty of atheists have had Christians tortured, shot and otherwise persecuted for their beliefs.

Like I said, there are blinkered, intolerant people on both sides of the argument.
I'd argue against such atheists as well.

All along I've not been arguing against any religion, I've been arguing against against intolerance stemming from religious dogma.
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Old 26.01.2011, 18:12
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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I don't think I set up any straw man.

Someone else (Carlos R) said that Catholicism was about tolerance. I don't think that's true and I've given an counter-example to show why that isn't true.

Yes, this thread was originally about the last Pope but the discussion has moved on somewhat since then.

Just because this criticism can be pointed against many organised religions, that does not mean it is an invalid point to make against Carlos' claim.

Do you actually know the meaning of 'straw man'?
You selected the Church's attitude to homosexuality (not homosexuals themselves) as an example of as you call it, its bigotry, but seeing as homosexuality is frowned upon by many faiths you could have singles it out by raising a topic that's more Catholic specific such as its attitude and rules regarding divorce which other faiths don't seem to have such a hang up with.

Last edited by higgybaby; 26.01.2011 at 20:04. Reason: many not man
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