Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #421  
Old 26.01.2011, 18:18
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,231
Groaned at 105 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 9,934 Times in 4,178 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

Quote:
View Post
The difference is that atheism is incidental to their actions, whereas the other side is religiously motivated. Are you for real?

Sent from my ZTE-BLADE
Are you saying that atheist are premeditated evil, while religiously-motivated are too dumb to know better?
Reply With Quote
  #422  
Old 26.01.2011, 18:20
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 168
Groaned at 36 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 78 Times in 50 Posts
daboy is considered unworthydaboy is considered unworthydaboy is considered unworthydaboy is considered unworthy
Quote:
View Post
You selected the Church's attitude to homosexuality (not homosexuals themselves) as an example of as you call it, its bigotry, but seeing as homosexuality is frowned upon by man faiths you could have singles it out by raising a topic that's more Catholic specific such as its attitude and rules regarding divorce which other faiths don't seem to have such a hang up with.
Many faiths? Like? Name some outside the abrahamic religions, which are essentially all the same.
Reply With Quote
  #423  
Old 26.01.2011, 19:16
Gastro Gnome's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,553
Groaned at 49 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 2,856 Times in 1,550 Posts
Gastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

Quote:
View Post
You selected the Church's attitude to homosexuality (not homosexuals themselves) as an example of as you call it, its bigotry, but seeing as homosexuality is frowned upon by man faiths you could have singles it out by raising a topic that's more Catholic specific such as its attitude and rules regarding divorce which other faiths don't seem to have such a hang up with.
I selected homosexuality as an obvious example of an exclusionary and judgemental attitude within Catholicism firstly because this thread was about the Pope and latterly Catholicism generally and secondly because Carlos R had claimed that Catholicism was tolerant.

The attitude to divorce is somewhat different as people choose that course of action rather than being born with it or seeing it as part of their identity. I do think that it's a rather antiquated approach though and the Church should be tolerant to those who face intractable marital difficulties.
Reply With Quote
  #424  
Old 27.01.2011, 10:38
higgybaby's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,044
Groaned at 44 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 815 Times in 422 Posts
higgybaby has a reputation beyond reputehiggybaby has a reputation beyond reputehiggybaby has a reputation beyond reputehiggybaby has a reputation beyond reputehiggybaby has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

Quote:
View Post
I selected homosexuality as an obvious example of an exclusionary and judgemental attitude within Catholicism firstly because this thread was about the Pope and latterly Catholicism generally and secondly because Carlos R had claimed that Catholicism was tolerant.

The attitude to divorce is somewhat different as people choose that course of action rather than being born with it or seeing it as part of their identity. I do think that it's a rather antiquated approach though and the Church should be tolerant to those who face intractable marital difficulties.
So homosexuals are born gay and don't make a decision? It's not the same as being born with a skin colour or gender surely?
Reply With Quote
  #425  
Old 27.01.2011, 10:47
Leni's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sunny Solothurn
Posts: 942
Groaned at 8 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 765 Times in 406 Posts
Leni has a reputation beyond reputeLeni has a reputation beyond reputeLeni has a reputation beyond reputeLeni has a reputation beyond reputeLeni has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

And being heterosexual is also a conscious decision we make??
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Leni for this useful post:
  #426  
Old 27.01.2011, 11:18
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 168
Groaned at 36 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 78 Times in 50 Posts
daboy is considered unworthydaboy is considered unworthydaboy is considered unworthydaboy is considered unworthy
They do make a decision. In the us it's either live miserably in the closet or move to san francisco. We are all a little gay. Considering we originated from the same simple organism, there is no reason to think that sex, gender, or by extension, sexual orientation, is a kind of binary 0 or 1 kind of thing (unless you grow up under a stupid adam and eve creation paradigm). It's a spectrum, with some PEOPLE more male than female, or vice versa, and some more gay than straight. Some people are born almost in the middle, with both sex organs, and the doctors arbitrarily decide which "extra" to remove (sometimes basex on surgical convenience) and then call it a girl, or boy.

So yes, it is the same as being born black, or jewish, or a gay, black, mexican jew.

Sent from my ZTE-BLADE
Reply With Quote
  #427  
Old 27.01.2011, 12:01
Gastro Gnome's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,553
Groaned at 49 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 2,856 Times in 1,550 Posts
Gastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

Quote:
View Post
So homosexuals are born gay and don't make a decision? It's not the same as being born with a skin colour or gender surely?
Yes. It's almost certainly genetic.

Or are you in favour of those weird camps in America where they try to 'cure' gays and lesbians?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Gastro Gnome for this useful post:
  #428  
Old 27.01.2011, 12:44
higgybaby's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,044
Groaned at 44 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 815 Times in 422 Posts
higgybaby has a reputation beyond reputehiggybaby has a reputation beyond reputehiggybaby has a reputation beyond reputehiggybaby has a reputation beyond reputehiggybaby has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

Quote:
View Post
Yes. It's almost certainly genetic.

Or are you in favour of those weird camps in America where they try to 'cure' gays and lesbians?
A Groan for a question......how 'intolerant' of you GG are you a Catholic?
Reply With Quote
  #429  
Old 27.01.2011, 13:22
Gastro Gnome's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,553
Groaned at 49 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 2,856 Times in 1,550 Posts
Gastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

Quote:
View Post
A Groan for a question......how 'intolerant' of you GG are you a Catholic?
Sorry . . . thought it was rhetorical. I'll remove it.

Mind you . . . I am surprised that you even have to ask the question.
Reply With Quote
  #430  
Old 27.01.2011, 13:28
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

Quote:
View Post
Mind you . . . I am surprised that you even have to ask the question.
The Roman church (among others) differentiates between being gay and "acting" gay (that is, indulging in sexual behaviour such as anal sex, for example), so Higgybaby's question is a fair one from an RC perspective.

Of course, expecting someone to be gay while not acting gay is something of a tall order for any normal human being, but the church was never really about having an easy or comfortable life.

What is interesting is the amount of attention that is paid to sins associated with homosexuality compared to much more common sins such as fornication, covetousness or dishonesty.

Funny that, aint it?
Reply With Quote
  #431  
Old 27.01.2011, 13:36
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 168
Groaned at 36 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 78 Times in 50 Posts
daboy is considered unworthydaboy is considered unworthydaboy is considered unworthydaboy is considered unworthy
DB you should seriously consider doing pr for the GOP. Or you could start your own tv show or radio. Your rhetoric is very effective.

Sent from my ZTE-BLADE
Reply With Quote
  #432  
Old 27.01.2011, 13:38
Gastro Gnome's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,553
Groaned at 49 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 2,856 Times in 1,550 Posts
Gastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

Quote:
The Roman church (among others) differentiates between being gay and "acting" gay (that is, indulging in sexual behaviour such as anal sex, for example), so Higgybaby's question is a fair one from an RC perspective.
I guess Catholicism always was about the external rather the internal. This was why good works would get you into heaven rather than the Lutheran notion of sole fide.

Nevertheless it does all look rather medieval these days.
Reply With Quote
  #433  
Old 27.01.2011, 13:41
cyrus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Emmenbruecke
Posts: 2,904
Groaned at 37 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 3,471 Times in 1,513 Posts
cyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

Quote:
What is interesting is the amount of attention that is paid to sins associated with homosexuality compared to much more common sins such as fornication, covetousness or dishonesty.

Funny that, aint it?
Maybe the RC church is happier people concentrate on homosexuality rather than it's more hyporcritical views on fornication with young children and the associated dishonesty in covering it up.
Reply With Quote
  #434  
Old 27.01.2011, 13:43
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,356
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

Quote:
The Roman church (among others) differentiates between being gay and "acting" gay (that is, indulging in sexual behaviour such as anal sex, for example), so Higgybaby's question is a fair one from an RC perspective.

Of course, expecting someone to be gay while not acting gay is something of a tall order for any normal human being, but the church was never really about having an easy or comfortable life.

What is interesting is the amount of attention that is paid to sins associated with homosexuality compared to much more common sins such as fornication, covetousness or dishonesty.

Funny that, aint it?

Ok, I am trying to understand their view here:

So according to the church, you can be gay, as long as you don't act on it. So gay isn't a sin. Having an homosexual relationship is.

But I thought that you can commit sins with yout thought? If you have some sins fantasy, your spirit is commiting sins, no?

Send from my Toshiba pink netbook
Reply With Quote
  #435  
Old 27.01.2011, 15:01
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 168
Groaned at 36 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 78 Times in 50 Posts
daboy is considered unworthydaboy is considered unworthydaboy is considered unworthydaboy is considered unworthy
Quote:
View Post
I guess Catholicism always was about the external rather the internal. This was why good works would get you into heaven rather than the Lutheran notion of sole fide.

Nevertheless it does all look rather medieval these days.
SAINT augustine is responsible for their ignorance. They made a conscious decision to ignore the real world, after the fall of rome. We aren't that smart either, otherwise we wouldn't still be babbling about it pointlessly.
Reply With Quote
  #436  
Old 27.01.2011, 15:11
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

Quote:
Of course, expecting someone to act celibate while not being celibate is something of a tall order for any normal human being, but the church was never really about having an easy or comfortable life.
Indeed so.
____
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #437  
Old 27.01.2011, 15:13
KB88111
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

Here's a question for those who think you are born gay and that it's in your DNA or whatever.

What about kiddiefiddlers, murderers and so on? Pre-coded?

I have no answer - but think the RCs can have JP as a Saint - just like Yorkshiremen have Geoffrey Boycott
Reply With Quote
  #438  
Old 27.01.2011, 15:51
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 168
Groaned at 36 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 78 Times in 50 Posts
daboy is considered unworthydaboy is considered unworthydaboy is considered unworthydaboy is considered unworthy
Quote:
View Post
Here's a question for those who think you are born gay and that it's in your DNA or whatever.

What about kiddiefiddlers, murderers and so on? Pre-coded?

I have no answer - but think the RCs can have JP as a Saint - just like Yorkshiremen have Geoffrey Boycott
This is senseless. Of course people aren't born murderers, except in some ironic sense when the mother dies as a result of the birth, but not technically as there is no intent.

You can't compare being a murderer to being a homosexual, because being a homosexual doesn't require an act.

Sent from my ZTE-BLADE
Reply With Quote
  #439  
Old 27.01.2011, 15:57
Gastro Gnome's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,553
Groaned at 49 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 2,856 Times in 1,550 Posts
Gastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

Quote:
View Post
Here's a question for those who think you are born gay and that it's in your DNA or whatever.

What about kiddiefiddlers, murderers and so on? Pre-coded?
What are you trying to get at?

Even if there was a strong genetic predisposition towards pedophilia or murder that wouldn't matter at all as in both those cases harm is being done to others, i.e. they involve non-consensual action. This is not the case with homosexuality . . . this is why it isn't a crime in civilised countries and why it shouldn't be a 'sin'.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Gastro Gnome for this useful post:
  #440  
Old 27.01.2011, 16:04
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

Quote:
View Post
civilised countries
Civilised countries?

And you accuse Roman Catholics of being judgmental?
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pope Visiting the UK - What would YOU yell at him? PlantHead International affairs/politics 29 25.02.2011 10:55
'Arrest The Pope' cries Richard Dawkins Castro International affairs/politics 127 14.04.2010 17:27
Pope stands firm against condoms in... Africa Russkov International affairs/politics 6 18.03.2009 15:41
Track in Bern? runner0579 Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 4 06.01.2009 11:23


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0